A lot has been said and written about Neeld's revolutionary list overhaul in the off-season. Can Clark and Dawes gel effectively? Will Rodan and Byrnes be worth the punt? Can Viney and Toumpas have an immediate impact?

But for me the greater question will be how the blokes who've already been there for four or more years will go ... the 50 - 150 game players who until now, if we're being honest, have not exactly set the world on fire.

We've seen cameos here and there, a couple have even cracked it for a one-off All-Australian nod, but none of the following players could confidently stand up as of today and declare themselves to be a top-line AFL player.

From my vantage point, it's time for the following guys to quit flying under the radar, to end this habit of "just getting by" each week.

It's time to Raise The Bar .... Jack Watts

You were adjudged the best young talent in Australia five years ago. Time to show us why we shouldn't be weeping every time Nic-Nat lights up Subiaco.

It's time to Raise The Bar .... Jack Trengove

They said you were the second coming of Nathan Buckley out of South Australia. You have been appointed Captain of the oldest and greatest football club in the known universe. Start playing like it.

It's time to Raise The Bar .... Colin Garland

The difference between your best and your worst is far too great. Give us supporters a reason to stop thinking that this is because you lazily switch off, opting to coast laconically through games. Also, you are a backman. Start getting on the angry pills and make forwards hate playing on you. I don't get the feeling that has ever been the case.

It's time to Raise The Bar .... Colin Sylvia

A Demonlander I can't remember said it perfectly of Col last season when he posted ... "Sylvia merely likes the idea of being a footballer". The Tarzan physique, the half-million paycheque, the birds hanging off your arm at the Middle Park. It's all for nothing Colin unless you consistently put it together on the field ... especially in big games.

It's time to Raise The Bar .... Jordie McKenzie

Okay, you're a footballer with limitations. But that doesn't mean you have to limit the impact you can have on games. If it's your bag to be a run-with player, be the best God-damned run-with player in the competition. Have the elite opposition ball players consistently cited for for striking you out of pure frustration and annoyance.

It's time to Raise The Bar .... Luke Tapscott

We love your brute physicality. Adore it. But what else have you got mate? With an injury-free run now's the time to show your coaches, MFC supporters and the footy public what all that 'next Paul Chapman' hype was about three years ago. Because if toughness is all there is ... that 'aint enough.

It's time to Raise The Bar .... Mark Jamar

Injury and form have seen a significant drop off from your sterling efforts of 2010. In 2013 - as the main man in the middle - the acid is well and truly back on you to recapture that form. A few more telling grabs around the ground each game wouldn't hurt, either. Quality ruckmen must help control the air.

It's time to Raise The Bar .... Lynden Dunn

You have been much maligned over the years. Most of it justified. I dare say there was a time last season when you were penciled into the "gone" column of the coach's list clean-out ledger. But to your credit, you worked your way back from the abyss during the second half of the year. As one of the most experienced, harder-bodied players in the team, the onus is now on you to show us all that that form was not just a blip on the radar. Impose yourself on contests Lynden and demand to be selected each week. You have it within you.

It's time to Raise The Bar .... James Frawley

Like the Russian, 2010 seems a lifetime ago. Whereas once you asserted yourself with Scarlett-like authority across the last line, of late you look indecisive and out-of-step. Get your mojo back ... now. Raise The Bar!

Where the poll Rangey?!!

but seriously, i think you've nailed the list of names we should be comfortable about demanding improvement from

Agree with most of the comments on the players but can't see why these 9 specific players have to improve. If we want to really improve we have to have improvement from a lot more than just the players mentioned! I think if we really want to build a good team we need to expect results from the core group of players and then expect a number of fringe (under the radar players) to become really good. Players which I want to see improvement from are the Jetta, Strauss, Taggert and Tapscott types. (Surely their is the potential for at least one star amongst those names).

  On 15/03/2013 at 00:53, DemonWA said:

Where the poll Rangey?!!

but seriously, i think you've nailed the list of names we should be comfortable about demanding improvement from

Don't worry DemonWA. During the season there will be polls. Oh yes, there will be polls B)

I thought this thread was about "senior" players? Nearly half of that list are 22 or under. Senior should mean AT LEAST 24. Give the young guys a friggin break.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that Nathan Jones has not given his all, and consistently...but I'd like to think there's another level for him to rise to as well.

But I agree there should be a lot of upside in the other 9 mentioned.

If it actually happened we would be sitting in that group of teams fighting for pozzies 7-8 come September.

It is possible, how hungry are these 9 to be consistently better than their oponents?

The Swans do it yearly.

  On 15/03/2013 at 01:03, stuie said:

I thought this thread was about "senior" players? Nearly half of that list are 22 or under. Senior should mean AT LEAST 24. Give the young guys a friggin break.

Come on Stuie, the players listed are capable of improvement. Theres no law against 22 year olds being good AFL players. all the other clubs have young fellas stepping up.

  On 15/03/2013 at 01:16, DemonWA said:

Come on Stuie, the players listed are capable of improvement. Theres no law against 22 year olds being good AFL players. all the other clubs have young fellas stepping up.

I agree completely with this. These guys improving this year are the difference between us winning 4-6 games, and winning 8 plus games and being a lot more competitive against quality sides.

The criticism is constructive and yes, there are many others that could have been mentioned however if by seasons end you have put a tick next to all those names as having improved like you have suggested then we are in for a much better season.

Lunchtime....looking for a laugh and here it is......Stuie I am with you.......just a couple more of the hairshirters to pop in their posts and the topic will be complete...

I often wonder if the players sit in AAMi park and think Christ I wish some of the supporters would lilft their game and stop bagging us

By the way the 'criticism' is not constructive,it is the same old trotted out again......

I find it strange that the Footy Dept thinks four of them are so terrible they have them in the Leadership Group....

First mention of Nik Nat by RR for the season...didn't take long....you may have to wait till at least round 5 to see him in action this year Rangey...that's if the groin injury hasn't cruelled his jumping

  On 15/03/2013 at 01:25, Satyriconhome said:

Lunchtime....looking for a laugh and here it is......Stuie I am with you.......just a couple more of the hairshirters to pop in their posts and the topic will be complete...

I often wonder if the players sit in AAMi park and think Christ I wish some of the supporters would lilft their game and stop bagging us

By the way the 'criticism' is not constructive,it is the same old trotted out again......

I find it strange that the Footy Dept thinks four of them are so terrible they have them in the Leadership Group....

First mention of Nik Nat by RR for the season...didn't take long....you may have to wait till at least round 5 to see him in action this year Rangey...that's if the groin injury hasn't cruelled his jumping

I'm thinking you went to one of those schools which had an 'it's okay to lose' ethos. You know the ones, where excellence is discouraged in favour of 'everyone getting a fair go'. That about right?

  On 15/03/2013 at 01:25, Satyriconhome said:

Lunchtime....looking for a laugh and here it is......Stuie I am with you.......just a couple more of the hairshirters to pop in their posts and the topic will be complete...

I often wonder if the players sit in AAMi park and think Christ I wish some of the supporters would lilft their game and stop bagging us

By the way the 'criticism' is not constructive,it is the same old trotted out again......

I find it strange that the Footy Dept thinks four of them are so terrible they have them in the Leadership Group....

First mention of Nik Nat by RR for the season...didn't take long....you may have to wait till at least round 5 to see him in action this year Rangey...that's if the groin injury hasn't cruelled his jumping

For someone with a Norwegian Black Metal band's name in your user name you sure are emotional.

Do you honestly think that names listed above dont plan to take their game to another level this year? I'd be disapointed if they didnt! Thats all this thread is, its a list of our talented players who could massivley improve our win loss record if they all lift and become consistant performers.

Agree with pretty much all the players you mentioned Rangey, and as WYL said if they all stepped up we could become a half decent footy side

However, not too sure about how much more bar McKenzie has to raise. What you see is what you get. Perhaps a slight improvement in disposal may see his ceiling reached. Certainly has less upside than others mentioned

They have a point, RR.

But Dunn, Jamar, Sylvia, McKenzie, Garland, and Frawley are senior players and need to lift.

Trengove is a captain and is coming off an awful PS so I don't expect much.

Watts and Tapscott have time but need to have consistent years.

Ho hum...... the season is yet to start and already we are singling out players for supporter whipping. I'd rather we asked the whole friggin team to lift to another level. Or is the AFL nine to a side now?

  On 15/03/2013 at 01:25, Satyriconhome said:

By the way the 'criticism' is not constructive,it is the same old trotted out again......

I find it strange that the Footy Dept thinks four of them are so terrible they have them in the Leadership Group....

Telling Jamar that he has to take more marks is not constructive ? Suggesting that Lynden needs to impact more contests ? Tapscott needs to show more than cameo brute aggression ? In most of the cases RR has either mentioned specific areas or in the case of Trengove, Watts and Sylvia that a general lift in output is required.

As to your point of thinking it strange that four of these guys are mentioned yet are in the leadership group - unfortunately I think it is more a reflection of where we are at. We have two players in our leadership group that were willingly traded by their former clubs !

Edit - i dont want to be the cheersquad here but there are posts imploring players to lift and improve like this and others that just slag off players - i see a difference

  On 15/03/2013 at 01:16, DemonWA said:

Come on Stuie, the players listed are capable of improvement. Theres no law against 22 year olds being good AFL players. all the other clubs have young fellas stepping up.

Not saying they don't/won't improve, but if we're talking about "senior" players then that should be over 24s.

I'd add the other Captain Jack to the list.

  On 15/03/2013 at 01:25, Satyriconhome said:

Lunchtime....looking for a laugh and here it is......Stuie I am with you.......just a couple more of the hairshirters to pop in their posts and the topic will be complete...

I often wonder if the players sit in AAMi park and think Christ I wish some of the supporters would lilft their game and stop bagging us

By the way the 'criticism' is not constructive,it is the same old trotted out again......

I find it strange that the Footy Dept thinks four of them are so terrible they have them in the Leadership Group....

First mention of Nik Nat by RR for the season...didn't take long....you may have to wait till at least round 5 to see him in action this year Rangey...that's if the groin injury hasn't cruelled his jumping

That's the attitude...The "Don't worry about this year it's still a development season, it will all happen next year. Don't put any heat on our players, they are learning"

The above 9 players could go through their whole careers with your attitude and you would still be content.

These 9 players need to lift their own expectations. They chose a tough brutal sport as their profession.

The MFC should be regarded in the same bracket as Richmond right now. Knocking on the door.

If these players can impose themselves on games we can be.

  On 15/03/2013 at 01:41, rpfc said:

They have a point, RR.

But Dunn, Jamar, Sylvia, McKenzie, Garland, and Frawley are senior players and need to lift.

Trengove is a captain and is coming off an awful PS so I don't expect much.

Watts and Tapscott have time but need to have consistent years.

Okay, I've removed the word 'Senior' from the thread title as it seems to lend confusion. Aaron Davey is a 'senior' player but he doesn't qualify for this particular list. Anything we get from him at this stage is a bonus.

Watts, Trengove and Mckenzie are all highly rated players with close to 50 games under their belt. Tapscott has been thereabouts without ever really showing us what he's capable of. There shouldn't be any more kid gloves with these guys.

I like to answer most of the points raised but as the psychiatrist said in that wonderful episode of Fawlty Towers . "there is enough for a whole conference there"........it's always the same group of posters who are down on everything MFC...as I have said before why do you bother, you seem to either hate everything about MFC or think everything is crap......

I am hoping that we will progress this season as a team, I trust from what I have seen or heard that Mark Neeld will accept no passengers in his side, and if you don't have a crack then you won't be in the team

I said to BH yesterday this is just footy, you go along and watch it, nobody dies if we lose, sometime in the near future I hope I will be able to go along and watch MFC play in finals

I have never seen the point of criticising constructive or otherwise, bagging of players, they don't read the board, and being professional sportsmen they know exactly what their failings are and they also know that if they don't improve they won't be at the Club

If you look at some of the other clubs supporters boards, you will see them doing the same to players who we would supposedly drool over, Bryce Gibbs anyone

"I'm thinking you went to one of those schools which had an 'it's okay to lose' ethos. You know the ones, where excellence is discouraged in favour of 'everyone getting a fair go'. That about right?"

er no, I went to a school in Liverpool, England where you either stood up or fell down, I just find it interesting to suggest that maybe some people, if you want to do a bit of amateur psychoanalysis, live vicariously through the footy players and feel that at the moment they are only adding to the overwhelming feeling of inadequacy that they have

Satryicon is from the Fellini flim, read the critique on the Rotten Tomatoes website and you will see why I chose it

I'll happily discuss footy, I thought last week the whole team didn't have a crack for the last 10 minutes of the 2nd qtr and it is something that has to be eradicated

  On 15/03/2013 at 01:36, Range Rover said:

I'm thinking you went to one of those schools which had an 'it's okay to lose' ethos. You know the ones, where excellence is discouraged in favour of 'everyone getting a fair go'. That about right?

If we "won" the spoon every year for the next 10 years the glad handler would be content.

If your opinion is supportive he's happy, because he thinks you're an optimistic. If you're critical he thinks you're a pessimist, who's just wanting to "bag out" players. When in reality, rightly or wrongly, you're merely making observations about those who represent the footy club.

This is a forum to share views, we won't always be right and we won't always be wrong, but critiquing individual players and assessing their strengths and weakness, and discussing their worth to the team is part of the fundamental analysis supporters love making about the club and its servants. We do what the coaching panel does every day, just without the same intimate knowledge and expertise.

Colin Sylvia spent his entire 10 year career in a development phase...But don't criticize his attitude because "he lifts weighs well".

Neeld is giving him the ultimatum here...

  On 15/03/2013 at 02:27, Range Rover said:

You want to discuss footy but you don't want to discuss criticism - constructive or otherwise - about individual players. Weird man. Weird.

As for the Fellini film, best guess is you chose it because you're ... gay?

Fellini films equate to gayness?? Live and learn... and all of these years I've been enjoying my collection of Fellini films... what can I tell my kids?

On the subject though, maybe some of our more senior players can't raise the bar simply because they are too old (cue Yackety Sax).