He's 21.

He's 22 before the season starts. He plays the entire year as a 22 year old. Look, I get that you're a poor footy spectator and miss what some of us actually see, but the age excuse is gone. Franklin kicked 100 goals at 21. Lockett, Carey, Brereton, Lloyd, Kernahan, Dunstall, Brown, Riewoldt etc etc etc were stars at 21.

The problem with many Melbourne supporters is that they are simply ordinary judges of footballers.

The problem with many Melbourne supporters is that they are simply ordinary judges of footballers.

And some are just ordinary people.

His age doesn't make a difference to his attack on the contest and willingness or even desire to hit or get hit going for the ball.

He's 21.

How does that bloke's hair stay in place while his head's pounding the desk?

And is it Jack's old man?

He's 22 before the season starts. He plays the entire year as a 22 year old. Look, I get that you're a poor footy spectator and miss what some of us actually see, but the age excuse is gone. Franklin kicked 100 goals at 21. Lockett, Carey, Brereton, Lloyd, Kernahan, Dunstall, Brown, Riewoldt etc etc etc were stars at 21.

The problem with many Melbourne supporters is that they are simply ordinary judges of footballers.

Who said he was the next Carey? Or any of those players? The problem is you're a poor supporter and are busting your gut to bag out a guy who's 2-3 years away from the peak age for an AFL footballer. The fact that you choose to ignore this and continue to gleefully bag one of our own players shows what type of footy judge you are.

Who said he was the next Carey? Or any of those players? The problem is you're a poor supporter and are busting your gut to bag out a guy who's 2-3 years away from the peak age for an AFL footballer. The fact that you choose to ignore this and continue to gleefully bag one of our own players shows what type of footy judge you are.

Meanwhile you're probably still waiting for Travis Johnstone or Colin Sylvia "to put it all together".

He's 22 before the season starts. He plays the entire year as a 22 year old. Look, I get that you're a poor footy spectator and miss what some of us actually see, but the age excuse is gone. Franklin kicked 100 goals at 21. Lockett, Carey, Brereton, Lloyd, Kernahan, Dunstall, Brown, Riewoldt etc etc etc were stars at 21.

The problem with many Melbourne supporters is that they are simply ordinary judges of footballers.

Tell me BH, out of the top 10 in the 2008 draft, which would you say are as good as Franklin, Lockett, Carey, Brereton, Lloyd.... etc...

Meanwhile you're probably still waiting for Travis Johnstone or Colin Sylvia "to put it all together".

If Watts hasn't progressed by 24/25 I'll join you guys. But why aren't you focusing on Sylvia instead? Geez we have weak supporters.

No. We have too many supporters who do not force the MFC to become better.

We have too many supporters who accept the excuses week after week year after year.

Jack Watts has enormous talent but does he have the balls to match it?.

This will be his fifth year coming up. He should be ready to go, or is he just another Col or Trapper who had the career in autopilot 90% of the time?.

Jack has got to do it this year.

If Watts hasn't progressed by 24/25 I'll join you guys. But why aren't you focusing on Sylvia instead? Geez we have weak supporters.

He's not going to suddenly become a superstar at 24/25. That may be an average players peak but they will show something well before that.

I really love your optimism here Roger and would love for you to be correct.

Unfortunately in my eyes your 2/3 of a premiership team is 2/3 filled with nothing more than unknowns and potential players.

Hence the qualifying sentence at the end - 'there are a few question marks ....

I didn't think I was being hugely optimistic. i think we have some decent players, some decent potential but also some decent gaps on the list.

By the end of the season we should have a better picture of the new and recycled recruits

He's not going to suddenly become a superstar at 24/25. That may be an average players peak but they will show something well before that.

And you think he hasn't improved at all over his career so far? Come on mate, at least have some kind of sense.

And you think he hasn't improved at all over his career so far? Come on mate, at least have some kind of sense.

He's definitely improved (but really he was coming from a pretty low base) and may turn into a consistent performer who racks up 200 games. But that doesn't mean he'll be a top-10 player in the league or that he'll ever improve his aggressive/physical which is necessary for a player to be deemed successful in modern footy. He'll end up like a raft of players under Daniher, look a million bucks against B-grade opposition, go missing completely when it counts.

I hope that's not the case but everything I've seen so far tells me it will be.

Hey guys, ive just been on youube watching a nic Natanui highlights clip.

sorry , just had to throw that in there

Who said he was the next Carey? Or any of those players? The problem is you're a poor supporter and are busting your gut to bag out a guy who's 2-3 years away from the peak age for an AFL footballer. The fact that you choose to ignore this and continue to gleefully bag one of our own players shows what type of footy judge you are.

I expect Watts to put his body on the line and he simply doesn't. My point about others being star talls at 21 shows that the age excuse wears thin. James Frawley was AA at 21, likewise Jack Riewodt. Neitz was an AA backman at 20. All of these players committed their body to the contest. How was Tom McDonald last year as a 19 year old when he finished top 5 in the B&F ? Did he put his body on the line ? He's shorter than Watts and hardly a behemoth, but he mans talls. Watts doesn't.

This is a massive year for Watts. If in his fifth year he still doesn't use AFL intensity he's in a world of trouble.

Let me be clear so that even you understand. And I can see that the Gherkin has posted directly after me, so I can only assume it was directed at me, so I'll make it clear to him (?) too. I don't mind if Watts drops an easy chest mark, I don't mind if he makes an errant kick, or three, I don't mind if a handball goes astray, and I'll even put up with the odd slipped tackle. But I won't tolerate a player that gives half dedicated efforts when he's required to attack a contest with physicality. Or when a player doesn't commit to spoil or mark in an aerial contest, because it exposes his body. They are the reasons that I don't rate Watts and doubt I ever will. And his age has nothing to do with it. Go and watch Nathan Fyfe, or Jeremy Cameron play.

If he starts attacking contests and putting his body on the line I'll be the first to acknowledge it. I expect tumbleweeds.

^^^^ Fairly well summed up i reckon.

It's entirely up to Jack Watts actually. How much he wants it.

He's definitely improved (but really he was coming from a pretty low base) and may turn into a consistent performer who racks up 200 games. But that doesn't mean he'll be a top-10 player in the league or that he'll ever improve his aggressive/physical which is necessary for a player to be deemed successful in modern footy. He'll end up like a raft of players under Daniher, look a million bucks against B-grade opposition, go missing completely when it counts.

I hope that's not the case but everything I've seen so far tells me it will be.

Yeah, look I do understand where you're coming from with that. I don't expect him to become a top 10 player, but he has talent and has improved at a steady rate so far, so I'm just expecting him to be a very good player over the journey. I know a lot of us expected more from a #1 pick, but there's been many, many worse #1's.

there's been many, many worse #1's.

Not in the last 15 years.

And yes, there's been some crap ones. Will Watts carve out a career that is better than Headland, Johnstone and Fraser ? Too early to call and no guarantees.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here see james sellar or cam pederson in our best 22 long term?

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here see james sellar or cam pederson in our best 22 long term?

Nup. But I could see them as part of our greater depth which is vital for a premiership tilt IMO. Whether it's one, both, or neither may depend on this year.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here see james sellar or cam pederson in our best 22 long term?

Season hasn't started yet.

Sellar might be able to take the number one or two forward in defence. Freeing up McDonald.

Pedersen might be able to take the backup ruck position.

Season hasn't started yet.

Sellar might be able to take the number one or two forward in defence. Freeing up McDonald.

Pedersen might be able to take the backup ruck position.

I reckon they have till April 2nd. Then our minds should be made up.

Only joking

impossible to tell because it relies purely on the unrealised talent of our youngster because the older brigade wont get close.

He's 22 before the season starts. He plays the entire year as a 22 year old. Look, I get that you're a poor footy spectator and miss what some of us actually see, but the age excuse is gone. Franklin kicked 100 goals at 21. Lockett, Carey, Brereton, Lloyd, Kernahan, Dunstall, Brown, Riewoldt etc etc etc were stars at 21.

The problem with many Melbourne supporters is that they are simply ordinary judges of footballers.

and Tom Hawkins took how long ? He doesn't get forever, I'd agree with that, but some just take that little longer, I wish he was tearing it apart but the coach is prepared to stick with him I will too for another season.

All supporters are ordinary judges of footballers, it's the passion that gets in the way of the judgement, live with it.

and Tom Hawkins took how long ? He doesn't get forever, I'd agree with that, but some just take that little longer, I wish he was tearing it apart but the coach is prepared to stick with him I will too for another season.

All supporters are ordinary judges of footballers, it's the passion that gets in the way of the judgement, live with it.

Is that the same passion created by five years in the bottom 6 with two last finishes.

Probably clouds our judgement a wee bit.

But most of the time those results are created by having a large group of crap players.

You do not need to be a rocket scientist to work out why have have been cellar dwellers for most of the last decade