oh really. Thanks for the advice Jose.

Does solid now mean a starring role does it?

Gimme a break.

Late 2011 we beat The Suns at The 'G.

Breathtaking.

I suggest you re-visit Jacks 2nd year. He had some very good games particulary given it was his 2nd year as an AFL player

oh really. Thanks for the advice Jose.

Does solid now mean a starring role does it?

Gimme a break.

Late 2011 we beat The Suns at The 'G.

Breathtaking.

What other 2nd year players are you comparing him too though, genius?

He's not Judd. Great.

But the criticism he's facing from posters like yourself is unjust.

Am I wrong ?

You are liberal with the truth. You have consistently said that at the beginning of 2011 that you were so positive with huge expectations for the season and that the poor performance that year left you underwhelmed. Must have been a strong thrill pill you took in Jan 2011 if you were allegedly so down on MFC in Dec 2010.

I am just waiting for a solid game. At this stage i believe he is over rated. That is not having a dig.

I am just looking at the games i have seen.

Its not like he has senior players showing him the way.

I am just waiting for a solid game. At this stage i believe he is over rated. That is not having a dig.

I am just looking at the games i have seen.

From the Melbourne Port game in Darwin in 2010 where Trengove's quick decision to rush a point won us the game, also look at his stats, not bad from a first year player. I think last year has clouded many posters opinions on this forum and don't forget the effect of being rubbed out for 3 matches by a ridiculous AFL decision and what that did to stop his 2nd season in it's tracks.

Anyone that has any idea on football would know that he was carrying more than the weight of leadership last year so how about getting off his back, he will be a champion of the club at a minimum and hopefully of the game.

"Demon Aaron Davey was at his creative best in collecting 26 possessions, ably supported by the midfield grunt of Jack Trengove (24 disposals) and veteran James McDonald.

The Demons, playing a nominal home game in Darwin, kicked five goals to Port's one in the third term to seemingly seal the result.

But Port's fighting qualities were evident in a tense last quarter - the Power hit the front twice, only for Green to level the scores with less than four minutes remaining.

Those final minutes were hectic, with Demon ruckman Mark Jamar taking a mark five metres from goal only for an umpire to declare the ball touched and call for a ball-up - from which Jamar and a leaping Trengove rushed the game defining point."

What other 2nd year players are you comparing him too though, genius?

He's not Judd. Great.

But the criticism he's facing from posters like yourself is unjust.

who is criticizing? Not me.

Nope. Others on here over rate his work thus far.

Big difference there. I mean you can say i am wrong to make yourself feel better but i am trying to be objective.

People on here rate both our captains Trengove & Grimes as Legends. That they are not.

Not saying they won't be, but right now they are nowhere near it.

WYL, again the question (as Jose posted) is asked, who are you comparing Jack too. Even in an under performing year Jack averaged a smidgen under 20 disposals. I believe Dane Swan had average years before his break out year. Isn't a little too much to expect a break our year when he has only played 3?

Grimes had a good year IMO, He stoop up as captain in a few games and player every round.

Edited December 28, 201212 yr by Demonsterative

Come on Biff. Old just needs to up the meds.

I reckon he sells them sometimes to supplement the pension .

Cant blame him.

who is criticizing? Not me.

Nope. Others on here over rate his work thus far.

Big difference there. I mean you can say i am wrong to make yourself feel better but i am trying to be objective.

People on here rate both our captains Trengove & Grimes as Legends. That they are not.

Not saying they won't be, but right now they are nowhere near it.

Nobody rates him as a legend WYL, don't make stuff up it does your argument more harm.

As has been said before he was quick in 2010 & 2011, had very good years, he dropped off last season but not sure whether that was due to extra training load or change in his game as asked by the FD.

You say you don't criticize him, my signature block begs to differ

I have asked before tell me when in this disapointing season he had, when despite playing a defensive role he was ever towelled up. Games this season where he showed metal and didn't throw it in and refused to concede were in some of our big defeats and that is why he is a leader, who does the simple things. losses to Meth Coast at Subi, Hawks & Cats.

and if you want to throw the old chest nut about being a number 2 pick and should be grabbing games by the scruff of the neck please consider we can all come up with many players taken in Top 10 who have all played between 200/300games and never done that

A few people need to follow the trail here.

If you go back I was having a conversation with WJ about the MFC having great Decembers and falling in a hole around mid February.

Now can someone tell me the error in that statement.

It has nothing to do with JT.

On the subject of JT I said he had an ordinary 2012 and on that basis I doubt he would be missed.

Just made a simple observation TF.

Based on his 2012 form would he be missed?

Now 2013 may be a big year for him but when you start preseason training with a foot stress fracture it looks doubtful.

This type of injury often means a season off.

My memory tells me Colin Garland started out this way and he lost a season.

In my wee mind I have him as a scratching for at minimum the first half of 2013.

We have all seen what the lack of a full pre season does to players.

Not expecting much from JT in 2013.

He will be a star OD just wait and see. Last year was very ordinary but he was in good company and like the others learning to include certain aspects in to his game, in the next couple of years he will blossom.

Nobody rates him as a legend WYL, don't make stuff up it does your argument more harm.

As has been said before he was quick in 2010 & 2011, had very good years, he dropped off last season but not sure whether that was due to extra training load or change in his game as asked by the FD.

You say you don't criticize him, my signature block begs to differ

I have asked before tell me when in this disapointing season he had, when despite playing a defensive role he was ever towelled up. Games this season where he showed metal and didn't throw it in and refused to concede were in some of our big defeats and that is why he is a leader, who does the simple things. losses to Meth Coast at Subi, Hawks & Cats.

and if you want to throw the old chest nut about being a number 2 pick and should be grabbing games by the scruff of the neck please consider we can all come up with many players taken in Top 10 who have all played between 200/300games and never done that

JT has been raised to the level of sacred cow on Demonland by a lot of posters.

What is wrong with saying he had an ordinary 2012 ( not alone of course )?

We are all looking forward to a much improved year in 2013.

But with a stress fracture in his foot he will miss a large part of the pre season.

That is not a good way to start a year.

I do not expect much from him in 2013 and it has nothing to do with talent or the lack of it.

It has to do with the fact he has a serious injury.

To quote the Big Lebowski

"No Walter ,you're not wrong ,you're just an [censored]".

Biff you can call me all the names you like but you have not answered my question so here goes again.

Statement:

"Perhaps I am being a little pessimistic but the last 6 years have taught me not to get excited in December."

Question: Am I wrong?

Well am I?

Biff you can call me all the names you like but you have not answered my question so here goes again.

Statement:

"Perhaps I am being a little pessimistic but the last 6 years have taught me not to get excited in December."

Question: Am I wrong?

Well am I?

Not at all mate.

You just happened to throw out a beautiful line from one of my favourite movie characters of all time:Walter Sobchak. I couldnt resist the dudes rejoinder.

In answer to the question .There is no need for false hope just because the lads are turning up to training.

I am guilty of being overly optimistic in December .It's just like kids writing to Santa .

Let the optimists have their day in the sun ,despite the folly it represents to more sage pundits.

If this Dave Misson legend bloke gets us an through without a massive injury list we could go enormous.

Nobody rates him as a legend WYL, don't make stuff up it does your argument more harm.

As has been said before he was quick in 2010 & 2011, had very good years, he dropped off last season but not sure whether that was due to extra training load or change in his game as asked by the FD.

You say you don't criticize him, my signature block begs to differ

I have asked before tell me when in this disapointing season he had, when despite playing a defensive role he was ever towelled up. Games this season where he showed metal and didn't throw it in and refused to concede were in some of our big defeats and that is why he is a leader, who does the simple things. losses to Meth Coast at Subi, Hawks & Cats.

and if you want to throw the old chest nut about being a number 2 pick and should be grabbing games by the scruff of the neck please consider we can all come up with many players taken in Top 10 who have all played between 200/300games and never done that

PSD it all comes back to what your own personal standards are.

Your Bar is lower than mine & that is fair enough.

I have never said JT has thrown the towel in. Never said he has not put in but through my eyes his output SO FAR has been average and because of this i do not rate him nearly as high as others on here so far.

A lot of people on here automatically put JT in the legend category after he re signed a new contract when $cully did not, & good on him. But his output on the ground has been average compared to other AFL players who have played 3 years.

I really hope his 4th is a cracker, because i think he is a ripping bloke. But talk is talk.

PSD it all comes back to what your own personal standards are.

Your Bar is lower than mine & that is fair enough.

I have never said JT has thrown the towel in. Never said he has not put in but through my eyes his output SO FAR has been average and because of this i do not rate him nearly as high as others on here so far.

A lot of people on here automatically put JT in the legend category after he re signed a new contract when $cully did not, & good on him. But his output on the ground has been average compared to other AFL players who have played 3 years.

I really hope his 4th is a cracker, because i think he is a ripping bloke. But talk is talk.

Trent Cotchins first 4 years were not the best, i remember reading somewhere he had tendons like a 16r old, he seems to have got over those niggles and now the guys a star, JT got plenty of time on his side, when it comes to personal standards and your bars lower than mine, no disrespect but you must have been a hell of an athlete in your day.

Trent Cotchins first 4 years were not the best, i remember reading somewhere he had tendons like a 16r old, he seems to have got over those niggles and now the guys a star, JT got plenty of time on his side, when it comes to personal standards and your bars lower than mine, no disrespect but you must have been a hell of an athlete in your day.

we are all allowed an opinion and you may well be right. I genuinely hope you are but i am not going to put any of our list on any pedestal apart from Jones on the performances of the last 6 years.

Yes i am a very hard marker and why not?

I want the MFC to be the best. A close second is just that.

we are all allowed an opinion and you may well be right. I genuinely hope you are but i am not going to put any of our list on any pedestal apart from Jones on the performances of the last 6 years.

Yes i am a very hard marker and why not?

I want the MFC to be the best. A close second is just that.

Actually at the end of 2012 wyl we are a close last!

Actually at the end of 2012 wyl we are a close last!

exactly. And why i refuse to accept that any player on our list apart from Jones had a solid year.

Too many of our supporters have forgotten how to win. It's understandable, but it has to change. If my view is unpopular so be it.

You understand O.D.

Actually at the end of 2012 wyl we are a close last!

Cheer up OD. If we don't finish top 8 next year we can't blame Jamie Bennell. It will be Jack Viney's fault.

Cheer up OD. If we don't finish top 8 next year we can't blame Jamie Bennell. It will be Jack Viney's fault.

I don't expect to finish top eight dc.

I will be more than happy with 10 -12 at the end of 2013.

Now that JB is gone ( thank god if she exists ) I have a couple of others in mind who I think are impostors but I will keep my ammo dry until about mid may.

That will give them 7 - 8 games to prove me wrong.

PSD it all comes back to what your own personal standards are.

Your Bar is lower than mine & that is fair enough.

I have never said JT has thrown the towel in. Never said he has not put in but through my eyes his output SO FAR has been average and because of this i do not rate him nearly as high as others on here so far.

A lot of people on here automatically put JT in the legend category after he re signed a new contract when $cully did not, & good on him. But his output on the ground has been average compared to other AFL players who have played 3 years.

I really hope his 4th is a cracker, because i think he is a ripping bloke. But talk is talk.

Sorry WYL agree with some of this but not about setting the bar lower, I believe we are seeing him differently and that is what opinions are about. IMO he will be and is a good choice as Pick 2. Leader in every way!

exactly. And why i refuse to accept that any player on our list apart from Jones had a solid year.

Too many of our supporters have forgotten how to win. It's understandable, but it has to change. If my view is unpopular so be it.

You understand O.D.

You want to look like a deprived hardarse, who only accepts success, but you come a cross as a dumbarse, who doesn't have a sharp view on footy.

You want to look like a deprived hardarse, who only accepts success, but you come a cross as a dumbarse, who doesn't have a sharp view on footy.

thanks BH. You read and take notice of Andrew Bolt so i am happy with my opinion.

Hope ya Chrissy was good.