Illegal drug culture - Football

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Robbie, it's ok to disagree but I'm not sure what with. Surely you see that we have a big problem now and it is growing, do you have an answer apart from the failed war against drugs. I used to be pretty much black and white about the legalisation route but I'm not so sure how it would work, I'm open to any other solution or variation. One thing is for sure, I don't want to see dealers making money out of anyone else's misery.

I feel for you 'Bossdog', I've been involved with and know people in similar positions, but the legalisation angle would mean they at least wouldn't have to steal from family and friends to get supply, it would take the dealers out of the game, but in the end we still have an addict. Will it create more? I don't know. Not an ideal result by any means.

I disagree that the war against drugs has failed; if it stops more people from taking drugs and takes supply off the streets then it has not failed at all. If making drugs legal creates more addicts then would that be a success?

What do you make legal and what do you make illegal? Would you allow crack to become a legal drug; ice? Does it go on the PBS? There are drug addicts that cannot or will not work and have to steal to get money to pay for drugs; if they become legal addicts then what's going to change?

It is not as simple as making Weed legal, which has major medical ramifications, if we legalise drugs you won't be able to stop there.

[Pennant St Dee 13,305]

More often than not they turn a blind eye unless it is staring them right in the face, they could spend all day and night arresting users, they know where to look, it's just not good use of resources. Look it's a side issue the big issue is how it effects the people around them and the crime rate, I'm right with you on this.

Take it from me, it isn't the case. You are right we have a fairly good idea were to look, but drugs are easy to hide and can often be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Can't comment 100% on Victoria but I would hazard a guess that like most Forces the world over, Red Tape is a greater hinderence than lack of resources.

[rjay 25,093]

I disagree that the war against drugs has failed; if it stops more people from taking drugs and takes supply off the streets then it has not failed at all. If making drugs legal creates more addicts then would that be a success?

What do you make legal and what do you make illegal? Would you allow crack to become a legal drug; ice? Does it go on the PBS? There are drug addicts that cannot or will not work and have to steal to get money to pay for drugs; if they become legal addicts then what's going to change?

It is not as simple as making Weed legal, which has major medical ramifications, if we legalise drugs you won't be able to stop there.

If your definition of success is stopping more people from taking drugs then it has failed, the problem is growing.

This is really good question (what to make legal and what not) and it's this that I have a problem with. Where do you stop? What next? What type of society do we create?

Take it from me, it isn't the case. You are right we have a fairly good idea were to look, but drugs are easy to hide and can often be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Can't comment 100% on Victoria but I would hazard a guess that like most Forces the world over, Red Tape is a greater hinderence than lack of resources.

I will defer to your greater knowledge on this 'Pennant', but it seems not to be a great issue when you see small time dealers trading pretty openly on the streets of Melbourne.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

If your definition of success is stopping more people from taking drugs then it has failed, the problem is growing.

This is really good question (what to make legal and what not) and it's this that I have a problem with. Where do you stop? What next? What type of society do we create?

I will defer to your greater knowledge on this 'Pennant', but it seems not to be a great issue when you see small time dealers trading pretty openly on the streets of Melbourne.

Of course it is but how fast would it grow if we threw off the shackles and turned it in to a free for all; how many newbies would we get if we made it legal. If we can stop half the population from becoming addicts then I reckon we've done well, I don't expect everyone to be smart enough to abstain.

Look I'm not going to convince you, nor you me, this debate is going to continue for years and drugs will not be legalised in my lifetime so we will see what transpires. Drug education is what's needed, some pictures of crack addicts with rotting teeth and heroine addicts with the sweats and in agony waiting for their next fix; that would be a start. We are concentrating on smokes and failing to show the full picture; I've got a good mate who's smoked pot for years and it's almost impossible to have a sensible conversation with him now.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I disagree with that; how massive would the impact be if we made it legal and by doing so gave our tacit support to users, wouldn't making it legal say that it's ok to use?

IMO many rebels would have a lot of the motivation unplugged if things weren't so taboo.

You know, the best drug is happiness itself, so if most people got off the backs of other people, & kids adolescents, & stopped driving them in some inane monetary pursuit, instead of just choosing on a needs basis when they feel like feeding or cleaning or procreating. Then maybe true motivation may take over from being corralled into some mundane stressful way of life, others planned for them.

People don't Want to do all the stressful way of life they are born into. They just don't feel theres another way without people looking down on them.

We have created a wasteful existence that makes us sick, & look for alternate ways of washing down the weeks stress. So we put ourselves thru 48 weeks of pain so we can go O/S for 3 weeks to laugh, live, & learn to smile again, before coming back to the mouse wheel.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I disagree that the war against drugs has failed; if it stops more people from taking drugs and takes supply off the streets then it has not failed at all. If making drugs legal creates more addicts then would that be a success?

What do you make legal and what do you make illegal? Would you allow crack to become a legal drug; ice? Does it go on the PBS? There are drug addicts that cannot or will not work and have to steal to get money to pay for drugs; if they become legal addicts then what's going to change?

It is not as simple as making Weed legal, which has major medical ramifications, if we legalise drugs you won't be able to stop there.

you must be blind robbie to what goes on around you.

Its Everywhere.

You can't go out without coming across drugs, or drugged people. Or like Alexander Downer, I didn't take it in! hehehe...

the war on drugs has failed & cannot win, unless there is a shift in peoples consciousness.

The problem isn't drugs, its the pressure & isolations society puts on its people. these society issues cause people to be unhappy & struggle, then turn to alternatives to get they're feel good.

# remember the suicides in Japan a few decades ago, & loss of so called 'face'.

# the suicides in Australia of New Australian boys, where they're parents put undue pressure/expectations to perform on the boys.

Its not the game, its the way its played thats the problem.

[rjay 25,093]

Of course it is but how fast would it grow if we threw off the shackles and turned it in to a free for all; how many newbies would we get if we made it legal. If we can stop half the population from becoming addicts then I reckon we've done well, I don't expect everyone to be smart enough to abstain.

Look I'm not going to convince you, nor you me, this debate is going to continue for years and drugs will not be legalised in my lifetime so we will see what transpires. Drug education is what's needed, some pictures of crack addicts with rotting teeth and heroine addicts with the sweats and in agony waiting for their next fix; that would be a start. We are concentrating on smokes and failing to show the full picture; I've got a good mate who's smoked pot for years and it's almost impossible to have a sensible conversation with him now.

I know mate, but it's a debate that has to happen and it's good on a forum like this that we can discuss deeper issues that I think we can both agree are of concern to all of us. Some have been lucky not to have been directly touched others not so lucky.

The education thing is an interesting angle and maybe it can work for some but having seen a mate of mine go through cancer treatment coming out of hospital after a major op and lighting up a smoke a week later, well he is no longer with us. We can be self destructive at times and no amount of education will change that.

Your pot smoking mate, yeah I know a few of those as well. It can have some pretty serious long term effects, some seem to get away with it some don't come up so well. A bit like alcohol I guess.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

you must be blind robbie to what goes on around you.

Its Everywhere.

You can't go out without coming across drugs, or drugged people. Or like Alexander Downer, I didn't take it in! hehehe...

the war on drugs has failed & cannot win, unless there is a shift in peoples consciousness.

The problem isn't drugs, its the pressure & isolations society puts on its people. these society issues cause people to be unhappy & struggle, then turn to alternatives to get they're feel good.

# remember the suicides in Japan a few decades ago, & loss of so called 'face'.

# the suicides in Australia of New Australian boys, where they're parents put undue pressure/expectations to perform on the boys.

Its not the game, its the way its played thats the problem.

Not at all, we all live different lives and move in different circles; mine is one where there are no drugs and that includes very little alcohol. When I go to dinner the usual drink order is water with the occasional light beer or one group who have a wine every now and then.

My workforce is drug free, my kids are drug free, except for the occasional beer and I stopped going to night clubs many years ago.

So if I want to trip over someone drugged out of their mind I'd have to go to King Street and I can assure you I have no intention of doing that.

As I said before, one of my friends has smoked and grown pot for many years but he does it in the privacy of his own home and never in mine. I have no doubt that there is an epidemic of drug use now and peer pressure is the cause of a lot of it; it was that that caused me to start drinking and smoking all those years ago. But we can go one of two ways; we can facilitate its use by making it available to all, or continue to limit its use by continuing to make it illegal.

This is my opinion and it differs from yours but that's the nature of things, we all think we know everything and how to solve al the Worlds problems; well at least some do.

Oh! one more thing, I believe that people are turning to drugs for many reasons and the pressure of life is merely one of them. This is one of the most selfish, self centred, generations I have ever come across and the desire to indulge themselves is a vey high priority.

[Demonsterative 3,020]

Legal and illegal drugs have a massive impact, our current system hasn't stopped or even impeded this problem. To me that says the current system isn't working so we should try another approach, it might also say there is no answer no matter what we do the problem will keep getting worse.

What do you think 'Demonsterative', you have experience in the field so I'm interested. Is there an answer or can we look at minimising harm at best or is it all too hard?

Once again I'm on my iPhone so will try to give a simple answer to a very complex issue In short, the issue ( I don't believe there is a war) with AOD issues should be addressed holistically as drug abuse is systematic of deeper issues like mental health. Only recently have govt recognized this and have poured money into different organizations to work holistically with individuals. Again I'll use the drug issue and mental health. A more skilled work force working holistically helps but does not stop the issue with drugs.

[Demonsterative 3,020]

Legal and illegal drugs have a massive impact, our current system hasn't stopped or even impeded this problem. To me that says the current system isn't working so we should try another approach, it might also say there is no answer no matter what we do the problem will keep getting worse.

What do you think 'Demonsterative', you have experience in the field so I'm interested. Is there an answer or can we look at minimising harm at best or is it all too hard?

Once again I'm on my iPhone so will try to give a simple answer to a very complex issue In short, the issue ( I don't believe there is a war) with AOD issues should be addressed holistically as drug abuse is systematic of deeper issues like mental health. Only recently have govt recognized this and have poured money into different organizations to work holistically with individuals. Again I'll use the drug issue and mental health. A more skilled work force working holistically helps but does not stop the issue with drugs but t helps.

The Issue with drugs in my opinion cannot be fixed but only adressed with good services and support systems to the individual addicted. A heroin user, and this can be related to other drugs, will always seeka higher high. Regulating or legalizing heroin won't provide a user with highs they want to achieve and will send indiviuals back on the street top up on their drug of choice

[dee-luded 2,959]

Not at all, we all live different lives and move in different circles; mine is one where there are no drugs and that includes very little alcohol. When I go to dinner the usual drink order is water with the occasional light beer or one group who have a wine every now and then.

My workforce is drug free, my kids are drug free, except for the occasional beer and I stopped going to night clubs many years ago.

So if I want to trip over someone drugged out of their mind I'd have to go to King Street and I can assure you I have no intention of doing that.

As I said before, one of my friends has smoked and grown pot for many years but he does it in the privacy of his own home and never in mine. I have no doubt that there is an epidemic of drug use now and peer pressure is the cause of a lot of it; it was that that caused me to start drinking and smoking all those years ago. But we can go one of two ways; we can facilitate its use by making it available to all, or continue to limit its use by continuing to make it illegal.

This is my opinion and it differs from yours but that's the nature of things, we all think we know everything and how to solve al the Worlds problems; well at least some do.

Oh! one more thing, I believe that people are turning to drugs for many reasons and the pressure of life is merely one of them. This is one of the most selfish, self centred, generations I have ever come across and the desire to indulge themselves is a vey high priority.

Yep I agree, that we've created a Me culture thru IMO, affluence. "I want it", "& I want it now", "& packaged".

My parents generation were born well before the 2nd world war. They went thru the depression years, & that made them respectful, resilient & humble.

The generation after the bomb, & subsequent generations have ramped up the confidence, & affluence, & with it all, education, but instead of remaining humble we have got into a competative, "I'm better than You mentality", 'mines bigger than yours', 'Oh I want the the bigger one', 'No! it's mine', get your hands of it, it's mine!

I've got a shiny new car, oh, well I've got a Mercedes!

This to me starts the kids who always want to out achieve they're parents, or role models. But we've made the game into materialism instead of humanity.

So the kids are materialists, as thats the 'role play', we've set before them.

We've taught them that material gain is God. even if underneath we don't believe it, we still won't give up the lead we have, over our neighbors/rivals. silent one-upmanship.

This is the lead we've all given our kids, and whilst teaching them these things as they grew up, our CEO's sent all manufacturing offshore to gain further profit & higher stock yields.

Well now the wheels ARE turning, and yet they're still trying to send more offshore. How stupid. when will they wakeup that our system is Broken. Thru Greed...

The bible covers it, just as the prophets have, & the Mayans. And no, they don't say the world is ending, just that its the "end of Time", the end of the Era. 'Old time', going into 'No time', & then onto 'New time'. The Mayans said it was the end of the Gregorian Calender... to me it's the end of the Wests dominance.

Nostradamus said it was going from the "Male aspect of God", thru the "Time of troubles", & into the "Female aspect of God"... then peace for a millennium.

(the bible call it troubled times)

To me this suggests we are nearly into the "Age of Aquarius". An age of nurturing & peace, but not before the "time of troubles" is thru. The old guard aren't finished yet.

Maybe when we are fully into Aquarius, we will have our shift of consciousness (no drugs), & look after ourselves better . brings visions of that 'Blonde Beer' commercial.

[rjay 25,093]

Once again I'm on my iPhone so will try to give a simple answer to a very complex issue In short, the issue ( I don't believe there is a war) with AOD issues should be addressed holistically as drug abuse is systematic of deeper issues like mental health. Only recently have govt recognized this and have poured money into different organizations to work holistically with individuals. Again I'll use the drug issue and mental health. A more skilled work force working holistically helps but does not stop the issue with drugs but t helps.

The Issue with drugs in my opinion cannot be fixed but only adressed with good services and support systems to the individual addicted. A heroin user, and this can be related to other drugs, will always seeka higher high. Regulating or legalizing heroin won't provide a user with highs they want to achieve and will send indiviuals back on the street top up on their drug of choice

Thanks 'Demonsterative', I appreciate your input on this. I think you are right on the 'can't be fixed but addressed' angle. The older I get the less black and white I am in my thinking, I used to think there had to be a solution one thing that could be done to change everything and make it right but it is so obvious now that there isn't.

[Bossdog 2,002]

There is a soloution......prosecute all people with drugs on there person....each and every time.....Makr it that drugs are unacceptable....for f-ck sake hit the streets and make it so hard for the dumb dealers a

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Interesting approach from Portugal.

From Wikipedia:

The drug policy of Portugal was put in place in 2000, and was legally effective from July 2001. The new law maintained the status of illegality for using or possessing any drug for personal use without authorization. However, the offense was changed from a criminal one, with prison a possible punishment, to an administrative one if the amount possessed was no more than ten days' supply of that substance.^[1] In 1999, Portugal had the highest rate of HIV amongst injecting drug users in the European Union. The number of newly diagnosed HIV cases among drug users has decreased to 13.4 cases per million in 2009 but that is still high above the European average, at 2.85 cases per million.^[1]

There are, however, statistical indicators that suggest the following correlations between the drug strategy and the following developments, from July 2001 up to 2007:

• Increased uptake of treatment.^[8]
• Reduction in HIV diagnoses amongst drug users by 17%^[14]
• Reduction in drug related deaths, although this reduction has decreased in later years, and the number of drug related deaths is now almost on the same level as before the Drug strategy was implemented.^[8][14] However, this may be accounted for by improvement in measurement practices, which includes a doubling of toxicological autopsies now being performed, meaning that more drugs related deaths are likely to be recorded.^[15]
• Reported lifetime use of "all illicit drugs" increased from 7.8% to 12%, lifetime use of cannabis increased from 7.6% to 11.7%, cocaine use more than doubled, from 0.9% to 1.9%, ecstasy nearly doubled from 0.7% to 1.3%, and heroin increased from 0.7% to 1.1%^[14] It has been proposed that this effect may have been related to the candor of interviewees, who may have been inclined to answer more truthfully due to a reduction in the stigma associated with drug use.^[15] However, during the same period, the use of heroin and cannabis also increased in Spain and Italy, where drugs for personal use was decriminalised many years earlier than in Portugal ^[15][16] while the use of Cannabis and heroin decreased in the rest of Western Europe.^[17][18]
• Drug use among adolescents (13-15 yrs) and "problematic" users declined.^[15]
• Drug-related criminal justice workloads decreased ^[15]
• Decreased street value of most illicit drugs, some significantly.^[15]

Full article - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

The really interesting thing to me about the policy is that when a user is found, they are fined and required to attend drug counselling. The fines the offenders pay pays for the administration of the drug counselling centres.

It repositions users as victims, not as criminals - which I think is really important. The drugs are still illegal, so the dealers can still be arrested and prosecuted, but the users/victims get the support they need.

[rjay 25,093]

Interesting approach from Portugal.

The really interesting thing to me about the policy is that when a user is found, they are fined and required to attend drug counselling. The fines the offenders pay pays for the administration of the drug counselling centres.

It repositions users as victims, not as criminals - which I think is really important. The drugs are still illegal, so the dealers can still be arrested and prosecuted, but the users/victims get the support they need.

At least it is another idea or approach if you like. It's also good that the money goes back into programs and not revenue raising, the worst thing that could happen is if the government started making revenue like they do from smokes, alcohol and gambling, then you have all sorts of vested interests and lobby groups.

[Biffen 12,947]

There is a soloution......prosecute all people with drugs on there person....each and every time.....Makr it that drugs are unacceptable....for f-ck sake hit the streets and make it so hard for the dumb dealers a

To finish a sentence.

[Trisul 664]

http://www.breakingthetaboo.info/

[dee-luded 2,959]

There is a soloution......prosecute all people with drugs on there person....each and every time.....Makr it that drugs are unacceptable....for f-ck sake hit the streets and make it so hard for the dumb dealers a

the stick & the carrot.

Force the people like communism does, or dictators do, & resentment & rebellion rules. anarchy is close.

Encourage the people to do the right thing thru positive encouragement.

The problem is this can't work with so many people wanting to be above 'Others',,, & want to exploit other people for they're own personal gains. resentment & poor self esteem are the result of these exploitative people damaging the softer souls, & so they just do what it takes to get thru they're days.

IMO, we won't change until Greed is dead.

Then healing will occur.

[old55 23,705]

The radio announcers sought to and succeeded in breaching the medical privacy of the Duchess of Cambridge by impersonating her relatives - that is not a joke. After patient physical and psychological health care, protection of patient confidentiality is the most important responsibility of health care professionals. Jacintha Saldanha was working in an environment where the responsibility and importance of protecting the royal family's privacy was paramount. She made an professional error as a direct result of being mislead by this deceit, it's no surprise that she took this extremely seriously and personally.

[dee-luded 2,959]

DL i have had a disability since birth so maybe just maybe my skin is thicker in these matters.

Going through school was hell.

But i made it.

It was a joke that sadly the girl didn't get.

Sexploitation of asian kids is on a different page please.

I know WYL, I've met you.

That is why I used that analogy, to try to show you another way, another perspective. I also went thru it, when walking with my mum to primary school, or at the shops. It wasn't just her that was being stared at. I remember feeling humiliated & embarrassed. as a young insecure kids mind does.

It was quite a challenge for a 6 Yr old, 7 Yr old, 8 Yr old, & then have to be walked back to school after returning home for being late & refusing to go into 3rd grade class with the new disciplinarian male teacher. I was intimidated, looking back.

Rather than become one of them, we can become stronger than them. We can maintain of Values & Principles. Stand on those foundations & see how sturdy they are.

Then you find you don't need superficial people to follow. I can tell you are a good person, but maybe you could re-examine the pathways you took, when a younger mind led you.

Ruts are for the horse & cart to follow.

[Crompton's the man 659]

The radio announcers sought to and succeeded in breaching the medical privacy of the Duchess of Cambridge by impersonating her relatives - that is not a joke. After patient physical and psychological health care, protection of patient confidentiality is the most important responsibility of health care professionals. Jacintha Saldanha was working in an environment where the responsibility and importance of protecting the royal family's privacy was paramount. She made an professional error as a direct result of being mislead by this deceit, it's no surprise that she took this extremely seriously and personally.

unfortunately you are totally 100% right

I didn't see it coming : I nearly fell off my chair laughing when I heard about it ; I jokingly sent my son-in-law in Swansea an apology on behalf of all Antipodeans and probably the first inkling I had that all was not well was his reply :

"My sympathies, however lie with the gullible nurse who not only has to undergo the world wide humiliation of falling for a prank that even the pranksters were surprised was successful, but also for most likely losing her job. Not a good day "

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

I know WYL, I've met you.

That is why I used that analogy, to try to show you another way, another perspective. I also went thru it, when walking with my mum to primary school, or at the shops. It wasn't just her that was being stared at. I remember feeling humiliated & embarrassed. as a young insecure kids mind does.

It was quite a challenge for a 6 Yr old, 7 Yr old, 8 Yr old, & then have to be walked back to school after returning home for being late & refusing to go into 3rd grade class with the new disciplinarian male teacher. I was intimidated, looking back.

Rather than become one of them, we can become stronger than them. We can maintain of Values & Principles. Stand on those foundations & see how sturdy they are.

Then you find you don't need superficial people to follow. I can tell you are a good person, but maybe you could re-examine the pathways you took, when a younger mind led you.

Ruts are for the horse & cart to follow.

i am writing a book about my time on this planet. It is almost ready for editing. 7 years of extracting memories from my past. I am amazed what i did remember when i got in the "zone"

Almost 700 A4 pages so far..

Where did we meet DL?

The 'G? Or was it at the st. Kilda bowls club a few years ago when 'land organized that fundraiser?

[dee-luded 2,959]

i am writing a book about my time on this planet. It is almost ready for editing. 7 years of extracting memories from my past. I am amazed what i did remember when i got in the "zone"

Almost 700 A4 pages so far..

Where did we meet DL?

The 'G? Or was it at the st. Kilda bowls club a few years ago when 'land organized that fundraiser?

HaHaHa, you remember, & at the bentleigh club.

That night was a goodun, & you supplied that Robbie video. sensational.

Life has its twists & turns.

Good luck with your book WYL. I bet it was challenging to do.

I've come across drugs in my networks growing up. I had to fight a drug dealer once to get my Jumper back from him.

Then some of my mates that came under his spell, wondered if he indeed did by it.

Drugs can twist peoples perspectives for the worse, and they're allegiances. But that also says something of the depth of they're character, & they're determination to be a good person as well.

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

HaHaHa, you remember, & at the bentleigh club.

That night was a goodun, & you supplied that Robbie video. sensational.

Life has its twists & turns.

Good luck with your book WYL. I bet it was challenging to do.

I've come across drugs in my networks growing up. I had to fight a drug dealer once to get my Jumper back from him.

Then some of my mates that came under his spell, wondered if he indeed did by it.

Drugs can twist peoples perspectives for the worse, and they're allegiances. But that also says something of the depth of they're character, & they're determination to be a good person as well.

yes we really should organize another night.

I still have those VHS Tapes of the Northey years.

They were a great if flawed period. We didn't grow from it. We should have....

[dee-luded 2,959]

yes we really should organize another night.

I still have those VHS Tapes of the Northey years.

They were a great if flawed period. We didn't grow from it. We should have....

We did.

We grew thru Barassi Jordan era & further thru Northeys time, but something happened during or toward the end, & we slipped back, then we changed coach, & to me, we just kept on making mistakes selecting our key offield personnel.

We got a coach who appeared easy going from outside, & we had a great list but didn't achieve what I think should have been a golden Era.

We had a couple of sort of casual approach coaches who in hindsight weren't right.

Now after way too long with both coaches, we have since been thru another rebuild & total restructure.

To me, we haven't had the right personnel to make informed footy decisions, & we have payed the penalty of wasted time & opportunity.

Now we have another hard task master which we needed badly to reinstate disciplines, hardness & real competitive spirit in the whole club, & a tenacity for contests & wins.

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we have to keep the foot on the gas off field making the right footy decisions.

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And we need a supporters hub at our training facility & near the 'G'.

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The key to renewing supporters into memberships, is key to this inclusiveness & feeling part of it all & mateship amongst supporters. IMO our supporter base is fractured & splintered & feels to me that we see one another as rivals.

It doesn't feel like a brotherhood.

this is a small part of why I think our Not having this supporter Hub is hurting us in H & A games & Finals. as well as financially. & sponsors.

Give some back to the supporters & grow the supporter base, & with that growth will come more prosperity.

Edited December 9, 2012 by dee-luded