Given the AFL draw will have us playing in the shallow end of the AFL draw in 2013 I am hoping for around 10 wins.

That said, I agree with Jose that it will be other "intangibles" that will show where we are really heading. Things like the quality of those times we are on song, how well we hold up against a superior team, how well we are building a team structure, game style and team ethos capable of winning finals are all as important as win/loss in 2013.

I'm looking for us to build a team capable of winning a flag, and the signs of that won't be clear in the W/L next year.

agree Paul. But the supporters & club need some wins to keep the place together. Another 2012 would be an absolute disaster for membership & cash flow.

F#&king oath we do.

I like the experienced recruiting, partly cause it will give us some wins, but mainly because it will allow Neeld to implement the game style he want to imprint on the team now, rather than waiting another couple of years for the young players to grow up.

Edited October 23, 201213 yr by PaulRB

F#&king oath we do.

I like the experienced recruiting, partly cause it will give us some wins, but mainly because it will allow Neeld to implement the game style he want to imprint on the team now, rather than waiting another couple of years for the young players to grow up.

lets hope so. Seriously in 2013 i will take any win we can get. I don't care how it is done. Winning creates Trust.

And builds confidence.

And builds confidence.

yes. They feed off each other. I remember the energy build in '87. You could feel it grow.

11

2 against PA, GWS, GC makes 6

Richmond x 1

Essendon x 1

Dogs x 1

? x 2

We could certainly do with a Cinderella story in 2013.

I think the AFL banned the Cinderella story with the intro of the expansion teams.

Edited October 23, 201213 yr by PaulRB

I want to see a game plan and a contest, not super fussed about the number of wins, but I do want to see a spirit to the way the team plays, that suggests they are putting everything in, and not thinking about their social engagements.

I also don't want to see us pumped by more than 10 goals by the top sides.

Personally the things that matter to me is seeing people trying to smother the ball, not sitting back on their heels but making the tackle, and laying a shepherd for a teammate rather than letting them get nailed, these little things will be the signs of a team spirit that would make me think we are moving forward. The wins will look after themselves because its the tough little things that are the (pinching from Any Given Sunday) inches we need between massive failure and sweet success. Evidence that they are playing for each other will be the sign that we are on the right path, not a win because we are someone else's speed bump.

There is no fairy dust, 2013 is going to be some bloody hard work, its not like the other sides are sitting around singing kumbaya.

edit for grammar and clarity

Edited October 24, 201213 yr by ingeniokinetic

I hope we beat the teams that we should be beating like the Lions,the Power and the Dogs etc.The Saints are on a downward spiral as well so i think their beatable.That would be my minimum target.It would be also nice to get our annual win over the Bombers and we owe the Kangaroos a beating big time.

Edited October 23, 201213 yr by Irish Demon

8 - 10 would be nice, but a percentage of 90+ would be the best sign of improvement

Is there a maximum amount of wins because I don't know what range to guess in?

Wins are great for the great unwashed, and good for business, but aren't always the true indicator of a team's progress (see year 2011) give me 6 wins with all the right signs of the makings of a premiership team, over 11 suspect wins and just missing out on finals any day.

Bigger picture, don't get caught up in the trap of chasing numbers. Watch progress on field- wins are a by-product of everything clicking. Root for development and team.

Hahahahahahaha... No there's not.

You and Dean Bailey can keep your alternative scoreboards, the rest of us want to win games.

Really? If I could guarantee you that we would have a premiership in 2014 but you'd have to put up with zero wins in 2013 - a sort of reverse Mephistopheles - would you take it?

The point being, that if a premiership is out of the question in 2013, there are other things to measure improvement by.

After the rubbish we served up in 2012, I cannot fathom how we can get close to 10 wins next year.

6-8 wins with a few 2-3 goal losses would be a more realistic goal.

We have this thread and the resulting argument over what should be the measure of a season every year.

I have long held the belief that wins are not a good measurement for teams not competing for the top 4 (where flags are won) and that we are better off we a series of KPIs (I will update that thread at some point over the next few days...).

But everyone has their own expectations. Results still don't worry me. Performance does however.

I expect us to be in games longer and play a brand of football that is more the style that wins finals football.

Edited October 23, 201213 yr by rpfc

I agree with rpfc... I want the fade-outs to come to an end (in any quarter) and for ALL of our wins and losses to be hard fought contests that could go either way; particularly those against top sides... I want opposition teams to know they have been in a contest, regardless of the result.

Really? If I could guarantee you that we would have a premiership in 2014 but you'd have to put up with zero wins in 2013 - a sort of reverse Mephistopheles - would you take it?

The point being, that if a premiership is out of the question in 2013, there are other things to measure improvement by.

So you're happy with 4 wins next year if our clearance count goes up? Give me a break, I'm with Dennis Commetti on this, alternative scoreboards are used too much by weak coaches and apologetic supporters to defend poor teams.

We have this thread and the resulting argument over what should be the mesure of a season every year.

I have long held the belief that wins are not a good measurement for teams not competing for the top 4 (where flags are won) and that we are better off we a series of KPIs (I will update that thread at some point over the next few days...).

But everyone has their own expectations. Results still don't worry me. Performance does however.

I expect us to be in games longer and play a brand of football that is more the style that wins finals football.

You've got to win regular season games before you even play finals footy, so winning does matter.

You've got to win regular season games before you even play finals footy, so winning does matter.

In another thread you 'liked' a post of mine complaining that people simply skim posts instead of reading them.

Maybe you skimmed that post too...

After the last 5 years Winning does matter...More should be demanded of the MFC.

F$&@k winning the odd quarter that is only an excuse to hide from harder scrutiny.

bit early to be discussing this sort of thing isnt it?

bit early to be discussing this sort of thing isnt it?

Never! 15 wins, with 100 point drubbing at geelong as payback, friggen [censored] cats!

In another thread you 'liked' a post of mine complaining that people simply skim posts instead of reading them.

Maybe you skimmed that post too...

I read it mate. It just really bugs me that people are already bracing themselves with apologetic posts about "being competitive" or "winning quarters"... who does that remind you of?

After the last 5 years Winning does matter...More should be demanded of the MFC.

F$&@k winning the odd quarter that is only an excuse to hide from harder scrutiny.

Wanna like this more than once.

I read it mate. It just really bugs me that people are already bracing themselves with apologetic posts about "being competitive" or "winning quarters"... who does that remind you of?

Who's being apologetic? The team is coming off a very very low base and has been putting in what could best be termed "insipid" performances for the last few seasons. Yes winning does matter and we would all love to see them winning games and we all no doubt expect them to win games, but more important than simply winning, is the attitude they carry into games and the effort that they put in. So, it is reasonable to say that we would like to see an end to the fade-outs and that we would like to see the opposition going away knowing they had been in a hard contest regardless of the result; and yes, I am using the "royal we" in this instance.

What I get tired of are people who call the realists apologists and this expectation that we can suddenly turn things around in the blink of an eye... it just 'aint going to happen.

Edited October 24, 201213 yr by hardtack

Liking WYL's posts says enough for me!