Wines or O`Rourke

[H_T 2,941]

I don't think it is that simple. One is not a replacement for the other.

They are clearly looking to get Tippett.

I don't know why though, Cameron and Patton might need some help but Tippett is a FP/back up ruck. He doesn't want to be 1st ruck.

Wouldn't Tippett go through to the PSD?

There's an article today by J. Clark on possibly GWS using pick 3 for Plowman. I'd rather wait on Quayle's call, but things would now becoming clearer for the first 10 selections.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Lachie Plowman at 3?

Who'd have guessed that...?

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

Wouldn't Tippett go through to the PSD?

There's an article today by J. Clark on possibly GWS using pick 3 for Plowman. I'd rather wait on Quayle's call, but things would now becoming clearer for the first 10 selections.

I think I read somewhere yesterday that Tippett has failed to nominate for the National Draft, and as a result of this will be going through the Preseason Draft (assuming he is allowed to be drafted after all the penalties he is facing are said and done).

Edit: Here's where I read it

Edited November 13, 2012 by Good Times Grimes

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

Wouldn't Tippett go through to the PSD?

There's an article today by J. Clark on possibly GWS using pick 3 for Plowman. I'd rather wait on Quayle's call, but things would now becoming clearer for the first 10 selections.

And yes, I agree with you...the top 10 is definitely firming.

I think it'll be something like this (assuming Plowman goes at #3, as the HS predicts):

1. Whitfield (GWS)

2. Toumpas (GWS

3. Plowman (GWS)

4. Wines (MELB)

5. Stringer (WB)

6. O'Rourke (WB)

7. Grundy (PA)

8. Mayes (BRIS)

9. Menzel or Macrae (RICH)

10. Daniher (ESS)

[Whispering_Jack 28,118]

Last night I re-watched some of the Under 18 championships games and they confirmed my belief that Wines is the likely selection for Melbourne given what we know of Mark Neeld's preferences of the type of player he wants at the club's work face. I think Wines over O'Rourke would be considered in terms of the fact that the former is ready made and could slot into AFL football early and his chances of succeeding in the long run would be slightly better. That said, my own preference would be for a Toumpas or O'Rourke to give us better variety in the midfield.

The other thing that amazes me however, is the thought that Grundy might not be in GWS's top three players given their list. If the HUN article is right and Grundy goes to Port Adelaide at 7 then they have the bargain of this year's draft (aside from us getting Jack Viney @ 27 of course).

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

And yes, I agree with you...the top 10 is definitely firming.

I think it'll be something like this (assuming Plowman goes at #3, as the HS predicts):

1. Whitfield (GWS)

2. Toumpas (GWS

3. Plowman (GWS)

4. Wines (MELB)

5. Stringer (WB)

6. O'Rourke (WB)

7. Grundy (PA)

8. Mayes (BRIS)

9. Menzel or Macrae (RICH)

10. Daniher (ESS)

I expect the Bulldogs will be over the moon if it pans out this way.

[Hannibal 5,814]

There's so much talk linking Melbourne to Wines, but where is it all coming from ? It seems to be a foregone conclusion. Is it the mateship with the Viney's that's driving it ? Has the club leaked its intentions ? Is the industry just putting two and two together ?

Things aren't always as they seem. It will be an interesting draft day.

[rpfc 27,673]

There's so much talk linking Melbourne to Wines, but where is it all coming from ? It seems to be a foregone conclusion. Is it the mateship with the Viney's that's driving it ? Has the club leaked its intentions ? Is the industry just putting two and two together ?

Things aren't always as they seem. It will be an interesting draft day.

IIRC, Hells Gates said that Wines is near a lock.

He is one of a few on here with decent inside knowledge.

[H_T 2,941]

Lachie Plowman at 3?

Who'd have guessed that...?

Ummm, someone who just happened to bump a thread, I presume.

[dee-luded 2,958]

My only knock on Wines is pace.. he is not quick. Jobe Watson is someone that he plays a bit like, he is not quick either i suppose....

If we can control the centre bounces first winning a majority of first ball, & around the stoppages, we will be off to a good start.

We will add class to our list & have some already.

I'd love to have a premier onball brigade & build the centreline as we go along.

[dee-luded 2,958]

A good indicator of Wines future transition into AFL, I think, is former #5 draft pick Ben Cunnington. As a kid he dominated under 18 football as a tough inside midfielder who was capable going forward and impacting the scoreboard. His transition into AFL certainly hasn't taken the world by storm, but he has been useful addition to the North midfield and would certainly walk into our team and be the second/third best midfielder. His foot speed and kicking ability has, and probably will continue to, hold him back from being a gun but he is a regular contributor and I expect Wines to be of a similar ilk.

No doubt Cunnington will improve his disposal ability thru professionalism & hard work.

Wines looks the dedicated type who will want to be one of The best.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

O'rourke and Wines both stood out in the Champs. I don't know why people continue to say Wines is a surer bet to assimilate better to the AFL than O'rourke.

He may not be bumped off the ball as easily, as O'rourke will need longer to develop his body. That's about it though.

I am just praying we get it right. I am in the Toumpas and O'rourke camp purely because we have no players on our list that possess that kind of class. They look to be absolute silk.

I am of the belief that it's easier to develop a player who is predominately an outside mid into an inside mid if you have the right culture and coaches at a club. It all depends on the attitude of a player. If O'rourke has that desire and hunger to work on getting the best out of himself then I would go for him. Pendlebury, Judd, Ablett, Cotchin, Dangerfield. All of these players started as outside mids with sublime skills, awareness, evasiveness and speed and over the years have been able to develop their inside game through their attitude, coaches/club culture and spending pre-seasons developing their bodies.

They're all able to play inside and outside. They can win games off their own boot. They are all stars of the competition because they have so many strings to their bow.

If people are comparing Wines to Jobe Watson, I will ask this. How useful is Jobe Watson once the ball is clear of the contest. How punishing is he with his disposal or conversely how often does he let his team mates down with his kicking skills? I admire him and obviously rate the guy. But his outside game isn't going to get any better. He has hit his head on the ceiling. He clearly played the inside mid role better than anyone else this year. But there is a ceiling. And Wines is only being compared to Watson remember. We could only hope Wines would reach Watson's level.

In a nutshell: It's easier developing an outside player's inside game as long as their head is in the right place and they have the desire to get the best out of themselves and work extremely hard. (Not Colin Sylvia types).

If O'rourke has the attitude and hunger and isn't afraid, get him.

Edited November 14, 2012 by stevethemanjordan

[Hannibal 5,814]

IIRC, Hells Gates said that Wines is near a lock.

He is one of a few on here with decent inside knowledge.

So it's the club that is leaking.

And yes, I'm aware of the Brother connection.

Or it's an educated guess.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[beelzebub 22,705]

imho..inside mids have a bit of Pitbull about them. Its just in their genes , in their dna to get in there and get the ball. There's also a certain sense of dveil maycare and disregard for ones own safety etc in doing so. Thats VERY HARD to teach someone.

i reckon you either have it or you dont

[Pennant St Dee 11,763]

I think the consensus is Wines and there is always a surprise at draft time, the cat amongst the Pigeons would be if Toumpas was left at Pick 4 IMO

[King Kunta 97]

No doubt Cunnington will improve his disposal ability thru professionalism & hard work.

Wines looks the dedicated type who will want to be one of The best.

I agree not only improve but have confidence in his disposal. I'm sure Ollie will do everything he can to be the best version of himself, which makes me confident he will be a contributer to our side if picked.

[rpfc 27,673]

In a nutshell: It's easier developing an outside player's inside game as long as their head is in the right place and they have the desire to get the best out of themselves and work extremely hard. (Not Colin Sylvia types).

If O'rourke has the attitude and hunger and isn't afraid, get him.

Ferociousness at the footy is not something you can teach.

I would say the opposite - you can clean up people's skills and get them to gut run and accumulate possessions - but it's far more difficult to make someone tougher in the inside.

For me - I would get the bloke who is the most comfortable in the centre sqaure against Mitchell, Selwood, and co.

That is the bar we have to get to - gotta get the pill before you use it.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Ferociousness at the footy is not something you can teach.

I would say the opposite - you can clean up people's skills and get them to gut run and accumulate possessions - but it's far more difficult to make someone tougher in the inside.

For me - I would get the bloke who is the most comfortable in the centre sqaure against Mitchell, Selwood, and co.

That is the bar we have to get to - gotta get the pill before you use it.

Well you have isolated a word here RP. Ferociousness. I think I know what you're saying.

I agree that there are certain players who seem to be absolutely fearless when it comes to playing football. Players that throw themselves at the ball with what seems like no thought for their own safety. Selwood, Campbell Brown, Robinson, (Viney it seems).

The only reason Robinson is playing league footy is because of that very attribute. It's his strongest and it's what got him drafted.

The thing is, I don't know O'rourke's level of 'ferocity', 'fearlessness', (whatever word you want to insert) for the footy. It's impossible to tell from that highlights reel because nearly all of it is filled with him receiving or kicking, (which to some might mean he doesn't like winning it in close).

There are many factors that can contribute to a player's ability to throw himself at the ball and as I've pointed out above, players like Ablett and Pendles were never Kamikaze style players and from their first games of AFL would have been in awe standing next to some of the games greatest and hardest players. But look at both players now RP. Would either of them flinch at a contest? They have built their bodies, hardened their minds and believe that they can beat anyone.

[Brayshaw Self 847]

I prefer Stringer, even with the limp. If our medical team don't think it will be a major concern, we'd be silly not to pick him. After Hell's Gates posts, I believe we will pick Wines but from all reports and highlights, Stringer is an absolute gem.

[rpfc 27,673]

There are many factors that can contribute to a player's ability to throw himself at the ball and as I've pointed out above, players like Ablett and Pendles were never Kamikaze style players and from their first games of AFL would have been in awe standing next to some of the games greatest and hardest players. But look at both players now RP. Would either of them flinch at a contest? They have built their bodies, hardened their minds and believe that they can beat anyone.

If its O'Rourke then it's O'Rourke.

I don't have an issue with people seeing different things in players, I have an issue with the idea that (and I realise you were not directly saying this) you can teach a soft skilled player some toughness, as easily as you can teach a hard in-an-under player some skills.

Skills you can refine and be selective (Jones - better decision making) to improve.

You can't teach toughness.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I don't know why people continue to say Wines is a surer bet to assimilate better to the AFL than O'rourke.

They'll "continue" to say it if they believe it.

I'd be very happy with O'Rourke for obvious reasons. The reason I think Wines is the surer bet is that he's already been a dominant junior, he's already captained his club and state, he's got footy smarts, he's a proven accumulator but most importantly he's 188 cm and 90 kg. He's a big bodied mid that can clearly play. He's nearly the same size as Josh Kennedy, who is listed as 189 cm and 93 kg and he's a huge mid. For me that makes him a safer bet in a brutal game where big bodies thrive.

But as I've already said, I reckon O'Rourke's class gives him a higher ceiling.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Both fair points.

I think I'm just petrified we will pick up someone who will again become mediocre for whatever reasons.

I want us to unearth a star midfielder.

[H_T 2,941]

Both fair points.

I think I'm just petrified we will pick up someone who will again become mediocre for whatever reasons.

I want us to unearth a star midfielder.

You're not the only one stmj.

[Guest NoMoreMrNiceGuy]

Give me the bigger bodied threshing machine who will thrive in a congested, cut-throat final.

[rjay 24,182]

I prefer Stringer, even with the limp. If our medical team don't think it will be a major concern, we'd be silly not to pick him. After Hell's Gates posts, I believe we will pick Wines but from all reports and highlights, Stringer is an absolute gem.

I'm thinking the same.