Have no idea what Noth require, but a pick in the 30's sounds very rich for a bloke who only played a couple of games last year. Mathew Bate played more than that didn't he? What would our return be on a Bate trade? Would prefer to keep the latter if North are simply being greedy. Feel Bate and Dunn could pinch hit with Dawes and Clark about and until Hogan steps up to the plate.

Will all depend on whether there is interest from other clubs. 2nd round is a bit unrealistic given they clearly don't see him as part of their plans

What's his contract situation? Can he walk into the psd if a deal isn't done?

what about Mitch Clark as relief ruckman.

Plus we have spencer and Gawn.

Than Dawes 1 out, finally he can play the position he deserves

Mitch's fine rucking could be used if another ruck goes down during a game. Otherwise let's keep him KPF.

Spencer and Gawn are "potential" that I referred to and aren't as good ruckmen as Martin.

And if Jones goes down we have 0 midfield. I'd much rather midfield depth than ruckmen depth.

Fine point Stuie. There are just so many I'd rather see go before Martin, who's fast (which helps the midfield) and rucks well, which helps the midfield. How good did Freo's midfield seem with and without Sandilands?

Dont agree on martin - early on his disposal and decision making was woeful. he came in and did some good work when jamar went down and surprised a few, made some good kicks either as inside 50s to a target or kicking his own goals but always seems genuinely surprised when his passages of play worked out. I see martin as another Pettard and just probably not what a Neeld future requires

totally agree with Martin v Spender - Martin is clearly better but I get the feeling Neeld loves spencer's giving-it-all mentality.

In the wash up if we complete trade week and have acquired Viney, Hogan, Barry, Byrnes, Dawes, Pedersen and Ray with pick 4 still in the drawer then it's been a brilliant off-season on the back of landing Clark last year. Five or 6 of those will be in our best 22 next year and I suspect all in 2014, which will mean a third of the team's best 22 will have changed within one season. This is the type of momentum that starts filtering through an entire group as they see tangible improvements that they're desperate to be a part of.

Add natural improvement through development, fitness, and maturation of others on the list and some blue sky will definitely start appearing regularly.

Great post.

Dont agree on martin - early on his disposal and decision making was woeful.

[Agreed, but especially because he didn't spend a year learning to be the great KPP he could have been. He was lost trying to be CHF]

he came in and did some good work when jamar went down and surprised a few

[He sure did and if he now stepped up a little from that, he'd be rucking as well as Jamar in all except his AA year!]

made some good kicks either as inside 50s to a target or kicking his own goals but always seems genuinely surprised when his passages of play worked out.

I see martin as another Pettard and just probably not what a Neeld future requires

totally agree with Martin v Spender - Martin is clearly better but I get the feeling Neeld loves spencer's giving-it-all mentality.

[i hear you NSC and hope Neeld makes the right decisions re attitude Vs ability when picking the side (and trading)].

I really hope that Stef goes to the Lions and Ray comes to us.

Martin has played 6 decent games in 5 or 6 years - has to go.

I think Martin has played a few more good games than that, but remains a fringe player despite a breakout season when Jamar went down. Seems surprised when he does something right most of the time which is a worry.

I think Martin has played a few more good games than that, but remains a fringe player despite a breakout season when Jamar went down. Seems surprised when he does something right most of the time which is a worry.

Agree on the latter part of your post but 2011 was a junk year, with junk time, for junk players.

Break out year? No discipline, no structure, no one percenters?

Trade.

I think looking at where we are at we have put a pretty tidy effort trade wise into suring up our forward 50. I think speed and spread are the weaknesses in the midfield and perhaps need to be addressed. Whether Neeld sees Rory Taggert and Gysberts coming in and doing that or perhaps a Dom Barry type in years to come (or is he going to play the Yarran role?) or whether there is room for more speed from elsewhere time will tell. I think Ray would be an ok pickup despite his age just for that speed.

Lets face it we have a collection of fringe players that other sides might just believe (and might successfully) turn around. Morton, Martin, Sellar, Bate, Pettard, etc. It might nice to offload these just simply because I cant see some of them in our future - perhaps not so much because of a lack of talent or application, but more that they offer things that we dont need

Gysberts is an interesting one. I still have hopes that he will be a good player for us.

Needs a bloody big pre-season.

Mitch's fine rucking could be used if another ruck goes down during a game. Otherwise let's keep him KPF.

Spencer and Gawn are "potential" that I referred to and aren't as good ruckmen as Martin. Fine point Stuie. There are just so many I'd rather see go before Martin, who's fast (which helps the midfield) and rucks well, which helps the midfield. How good did Freo's midfield seem with and without Sandilands?

Soooooo Martin is Sandilands now?......

I like Stef, but I don't think there's that much of a difference in what he can gives us in the ruck compared to Spencil that you would sacrifice the midfield for it.

Gysberts is an interesting one. I still have hopes that he will be a good player for us.

Needs a bloody big pre-season.

Agree - hope he commits and realises this.

AFL aint easy. Bailey 'Las Vegas' years are finished.

Gysberts is an interesting one. I still have hopes that he will be a good player for us.

Needs a bloody big pre-season.

And from reports needs to buy in.

Soooooo Martin is Sandilands now?......

I like Stef, but I don't think there's that much of a difference in what he can gives us in the ruck compared to Spencil that you would sacrifice the midfield for it.

Hahah ..You know that's not what I meant!

I'm fine if we disagree, but just think Martin had a good 2011, an injured 2012 and could easily have a better 2013 than his 2011, which would likely mean he'd be easily our best 2013 ruck, including Jamar who's probably gradually fading now.

Shouldn't a team keep their best ruck option & trade anyone else if they have to? Bate, Pettered, etc.etc., even Jamar or Bartram if necessary?

Lets face it we have a collection of fringe players that other sides might just believe (and might successfully) turn around. Morton, Martin, Sellar, Bate, Pettard, etc. It might nice to offload these just simply because I cant see some of them in our future - perhaps not so much because of a lack of talent or application, but more that they offer things that we dont need

I can see sellar being in our team for a number of years i think. At the start of the season my opinion would've been different but given his form over the last part of the season i would say his best is yet to come as he begins to believe in himself and gets some confidence at AFL level with the opportunity he never got at Adelaide.

I think it's inevitable now (as much as i hate the thought) that Martin is gone I won't mind to see Morton and/or Bate leave as they have pretty much stagnated as far as developing goes. petterd i think still has something to offer but as you say we probably don't need him as we will have bigger, stronger bodies up forward next year and beyond (pedersen, Clark, dawes, Hogan) and he offers what we no longer need.

I agree, that's where he played his best footy when he first started with us.

He was fearless and attacking, then he punctured his lung and nearly died.

When he came back he was used as a forward and did a couple of good things but not as good as when he played down back.

Last season he was injured and never really got going.

I've always liked him.

Yep, one of these players who have suffered from our list predicament, & the 'List Management' thats taken place over the last 3 years.

I really hope that Stef goes to the Lions and Ray comes to us.

Martin has played 6 decent games in 5 or 6 years - has to go.

So do I. I'd like to move on One Ruck this year, & possibly another Next year.

In the wash up if we complete trade week and have acquired Viney, Hogan, Barry, Byrnes, Dawes, Pedersen and Ray with pick 4 still in the drawer then it's been a brilliant off-season on the back of landing Clark last year. Five or 6 of those will be in our best 22 next year and I suspect all in 2014, which will mean a third of the team's best 22 will have changed within one season. This is the type of momentum that starts filtering through an entire group as they see tangible improvements that they're desperate to be a part of.

Add natural improvement through development, fitness, and maturation of others on the list and some blue sky will definitely start appearing regularly.

And just throwing it out there.... Where does that leave co Captain Trengove? Where can others see him playing given this Potentially "Star Studed" team ?

And whilst pondering that question here's another If Wines or Toumpas et also arrive that will make spots very, very competetive!

Hahah ..You know that's not what I meant!

I'm fine if we disagree, but just think Martin had a good 2011, an injured 2012 and could easily have a better 2013 than his 2011, which would likely mean he'd be easily our best 2013 ruck, including Jamar who's probably gradually fading now.

Shouldn't a team keep their best ruck option & trade anyone else if they have to? Bate, Pettered, etc.etc., even Jamar or Bartram if necessary?

Trade Bate, Pettard, Bartram.....what do you think you'll get for them? (shakes head in disbelief)

Bartram is untradeable due to his situation

Trade Bate, Pettard, Bartram.....what do you think you'll get for them? (shakes head in disbelief)

Virtually nothing of course, but it makes room on our list.

Why do other teams see value in Martin when there's little respect for him at D'land?

Virtually nothing of course, but it makes room on our list.

Why do other teams see value in Martin when there's little respect for him at D'land?

We have respect. Which is why many of us think he can get us a mid this week in a trade.

Martin undersized as a 1st ruck and terrible as a 2nd ruck as he is useless in the forward line and that is where 2nd rucks spend their time.

Jamar is our number 1 ruck with Spencer and Gawn his heirs. Pedersen is seen as a good forward who can help Clark with 2nd Rick duties.

Martin is expendable and has value. That mathematical equation leads to 'trade bait'.

They'll be delisted then to make room.

Martin is valued by some on D'land and you know that.

For me, Stef is in excess of needs and if we keep selling his 2011 form to some teams, it'll work out well for us.

Stef Martin .... Basketballer who can play Football to a degree!

Was a good Defender

Is a useful Backup Ruck

Hopeless Forward with little awareness and questionable Kicking.

Surpluss to needs if Spencil continues improving, Gawn comes back and Pederson arrives.

IMO

You'd be surprised.

Bate

Martin

and Gys

all have currency!

Not very high, but they do

This is a fantastic post. Hadn't crossed my mind at all. I like it though. But couldn't Howe play that role?

Sylvia is capable of 20-30? goals a year playing mid field/small forward.

In saying that I prefer him on the ball.