Toumpas will overtake Wines, his skills are far better.

Toumpas will overtake Wines, his skills are far better.

I'm in the wait and see camp. ( Been burnt far too many times). Skills are only relevant if you get the ball in your hands in the first place.

Agreed - still not sure of why you said Wilson would enjoy playing with Wines ? I would think that Wilson would have enjoyed playing with Howe but that doesn't bring anything to the debate either. If you are suggesting that he would enjoy playing with Wines more than Toumpas - well ..agreed again because at this moment Wines is way more progressed/shown lots more.

i bought it up because Wines reminds me of the way Willo used to play. Just flat out head down. I remember that round 22 game in '87 Willo ran the length of the field to get the ball, got it and kicked a goal. In the last Quarter.

That is the midfielder i want for the demons.

i bought it up because Wines reminds me of the way Willo used to play. Just flat out head down. I remember that round 22 game in '87 Willo ran the length of the field to get the ball, got it and kicked a goal. In the last Quarter.

That is the midfielder i want for the demons.

From what I have seen of Wines he will have to improve considerably to get close to Wilson ( circa early years). Wilson was stupidly courageous - remember how many times he got concussed ? Wines is also very hard but Wilson was very skilled and very creative - he just didn't look that pretty doing it because of his body shape. Not sure that Wines has the Wilson moves.

Trivia question - Wilson was a lock as our centreman then got badly injured - ended up playing more HFF because someone came onto the scene that stole his centremans spot. Can you remember who ?

Toumpas has played one season in one of the worst midfields of all time under a rubbish coach with hips recovering from surgery. All of you judging his career over already must of only started watching footy in 2013. Far out.

Bit of a stretch saying I was judging his career over. I think he probably played too many games in 2013 considering the form he showed. Got better towards the end of the year but based on what I've seen there's nothing special in Toumpas, unlike Wines.

based on what I've seen there's nothing special in Toumpas, unlike Wines.

If you said you have seen nothing special in Toumpas YET, unlike Wines then I could agree.

But I caution on the judging of babies like Toumpas until he has a couple more seasons under his belt.

Has Wines developed earlier than Toumpas ? Sure. ( think back to Hodge of Hawthorn who was considered in the first few seasons as the worst mistake that the Hawks ever made - Judd still has him covered IMO but he was definitely a slow burn)

We got Toumpas and not Wines. Now it's up to Jimmy and the club to make him the best player he can be. That is where the future lies, not with lamenting what might have been. That is so pointless.

Natanui Vs Watts

Dangerfield, Rioli Vs Morton

Martin Vs Scully, Trengove

Vines Vs Toumpas

These things are in the past. The future is the future

Yes but it's hard to have confidence in our recruiting/development. I understand fans get on side with high picks because of their importance and tend to stick up for them when they play poorly over other players, but saying Toumpas will be better than Wines is really just blind optimism

If you said you have seen nothing special in Toumpas YET, unlike Wines then I could agree.

But I caution on the judging of babies like Toumpas until he has a couple more seasons under his belt.

Has Wines developed earlier than Toumpas ? Sure. ( think back to Hodge of Hawthorn who was considered in the first few seasons as the worst mistake that the Hawks ever made - Judd still has him covered IMO but he was definitely a slow burn)

Well considering I can't see into the future, yes, that is what I mean

Well considering I can't see into the future, yes, that is what I mean

Unlike others on here - others on here who are rather too quick to make pronouncements.

Unlike others on here - others on here who are rather too quick to make pronouncements.

Saying Toumpas will be better than Wines (which multiple people have) is a pretty quick pronouncement

...but saying Toumpas will be better than Wines is really just blind optimism

Well considering I can't see into the future...

Yep.

Saying Toumpas will be better than Wines (which multiple people have) is a pretty quick pronouncement

Absolutely.

How anyone can say that a XXX will be "jet", a "star", a "gun" after one season is beyond me ESPECIALLY with our track record.

The idea that Toumpas will be XXX or that Wines has no more upside is absurd after such a small sampling.

Yep.

Oh my, this is getting funnier by the minute

Right now in 2014 Ollie Wines is better than Jimmy Toumpas, may be a totally different story in 2017 but who knows, i rate him and like his chances of being a good player, but that doesn't mean Ollie won't keep getting better either

Right now in 2014 Ollie Wines is better than Jimmy Toumpas, may be a totally different story in 2017 but who knows, i rate him and like his chances of being a good player, but that doesn't mean Ollie won't keep getting better either

Talk about flogging a dead horse .

Good luck to all second year players in 2014......lets hope we might see a few develop into champs of the future.

All the best to Wines, but im hoping "The Toump" and Jack Viney can become the players the Dees need.

Toumpas will overtake Wines, his skills are far better.

Aaron Fiora had great skills, but was a crap footballer. AFL footy is about winning contested footy. Give me someone who is a beast, wins contests and makes good decisions, over a skillful more timid type any day of any week every year. Btw, I'm not saying Toumpas will be a "Fiora".

But I am saying...

If Melbourne chose Wines instead of Toumpas and he had the same output at Melbourne in his first year there wouldn't be a solitary poster arguing for Toumpas instead of Wines. What does that tell me ? I can't take seriously the bias crap I read on here.

Ill still stick with the Demon boy Toumpas thanks.

One of the major problems on here is , you cant interpret tone.

A little bit of tongue in cheek humour amd a smile , is how the "toumpas will be better than wines" comment should be taken.

Its also a slight dig at those that are saying Wines is a better footbealler than toumpas.....meaning its far too early to tell.

Ive seen footballers blitz in their first years and not really gone on with it, and ive also seen others who take a little more time but become champs.

Lets just wait and see how the year progresses shall we?

OMG.....Really 37 pages ....x

OMG.....Really 37 pages ....x

In principle, counterfactual arguments can go on forever.

Ill still stick with the Demon boy Toumpas thanks.

One of the major problems on here is , you cant interpret tone.

A little bit of tongue in cheek humour amd a smile , is how the "toumpas will be better than wines" comment should be taken.

Its also a slight dig at those that are saying Wines is a better footbealler than toumpas.....meaning its far too early to tell.

Ive seen footballers blitz in their first years and not really gone on with it, and ive also seen others who take a little more time but become champs.

Lets just wait and see how the year progresses shall we?

It's not too early to tell, Wines is a better footballer than Toumpas. There's a chance, how much of a chance depends on your opinion, but a definite chance Toumpas may become the better of the two, but the fact is that right now, Wines is better.

Does Ollie WInes play for us?

Not, Yet !

.

both will be fine players, end of story.

Kid is a star.

Don't want to compare with Toumpas because I don't think it's fair but Ollie Wines must be acknowledge as something special considering his age and inexperience. Has captain written all over him.