Just for shits and gigs I will contribute......

I guess the problem with philosophy is that it never holds up in practice. To explain my statements - it's fine to have an idea or a way you want your team to play it's getting the team to execute it is the real challenge.

No shite we've had a bad year - there are a number of reasons you can list why. (injuries, form, poor leadership, poor preparation, players simply not good enough to compete at AFL standard) Whatever reason you can think of has happened to this club this year.

Back to your point - Neeld hasn't chosen his crop of players to implement his philosophy of football on. The few players he has brought in (Mitch Clark, and the draftees look promising) they've shown a little.

This club needs to harden the f*@k up and stick together - give Neeld a chance to implement his style and philosophy otherwise we will continue down the same path going nowhere.

So everyone should payup and shutup, not sure about that theory.

Ive got you pegged..and so have others. Its clear. When faced with argument you simply squib it and suggest there's folly afoot.

Heres where youre falling down.

Youhave an opinion.....thats fine..we all do

You make the assumption that the notion your opinion on is indeed fact... Its not

You further this building upon the assumption as to suggest why the "person mentioned in assumption " ( Neil Craig ) doesnt do what you would have him do even though theres no proof or indication that he either isnt..or is. Irrelevent to your argument as you simply idealise your view.

In simple terms ( up your alley ) you propose something based on false assumption. Merit =0

Oh dear, grumpy hangover mate?

Where did I say Craig doesn't do what I want him to do? All I've put forward are ideas and questions for discussion, you my friend are the one who keeps putting forward these opinions that you think couldn't conceivably be challenged while taking swipes at fellow posters left, right, and centre.

Bit of growing up is in order mate, and until you can talk with the grown ups I won't bother with you.

Just for shits and gigs I will contribute......

I guess the problem with philosophy is that it never holds up in practice. To explain my statements - it's fine to have an idea or a way you want your team to play it's getting the team to execute it is the real challenge.

No shite we've had a bad year - there are a number of reasons you can list why. (injuries, form, poor leadership, poor preparation, players simply not good enough to compete at AFL standard) Whatever reason you can think of has happened to this club this year.

Back to your point - Neeld hasn't chosen his crop of players to implement his philosophy of football on. The few players he has brought in (Mitch Clark, and the draftees look promising) they've shown a little.

This club needs to harden the f*@k up and stick together - give Neeld a chance to implement his style and philosophy otherwise we will continue down the same path going nowhere.

Every coach has a philosophy, known or unknown. It is implemented by a plan (eg team rules) and let me say markers (Neelds words).

You sound as though youv'e bought the spin that is being thrown up and that you are happy to accept that we had to bottom out. Perhpas your right but as this is my club (60 years so far) and not Mark Neelds. This is his job for a few years and so I reserve the right of a supporter to ask questions when we hit bottom.

Were you happy that for the first eleven minutes after they left Neeld North scored 4 goals to zip, then the next time he had an extended time with them they came out and had three goals scored against them in four minutes. Analysis by Neeld is important, but it better be right.

I don't have 100% faith in him. I also think it's too soon for some supporters to be calling for his head. Who's he got to work with? Seriously, weakest midfield in the competition and not one forward capable of kicking consistent bags of goals (without Clark).

That said, it is highly worrying that he cannot get the players to focus on game day. Yes, there are obvious issues with fitness. It's harder for players to run out games. But that's no excuse for not turning up in first quarters. If I'm going to throw stones at both sides, I'd say he also has a very young list he's dealing with and immature teams struggle with consistency, and focus.

It seems difficult to believe that Bailey and our lack of FD resources had our players in such physically poor shape that it would take two pre-seasons to turn it all around. I pin hope (the very thing everyone must cling onto in times like this) on drafting this year, trading and further experience into the players we have, and trust that the tide will begin to turn somewhere during season 2013.

Like this, although the explanation for the part I've bolded is probably that Bailey only required them to run one way while Neeld requires them to run both ways.

You've done well to balance reasons to admire what Neeld is trying to do with some legitimate concerns.

I was saying from all points of view in terms of the club the vibe is great and players are satisfied.

Well from all points of view in terms of the supporters and sponsors, the vibe is crap, no one is satisfied wathcing this rubbish.

It is obvious there is a directive to go along the boundary out of the backline and we then give up far too much territory in switching because we don't want to take a risk bringing the ball into the corridor. This allows the opposition to set their defensive press and thus leads to slow ball movement.

Team selection, by including too many key defenders with poor foot skills, then exacerbates the problem.

As opposed to selecting key defenders with good foot skills and they are????

Honestly, how can argue with people when they think that slow movement of the ball and avoidance of the middle of the ground IS the gameplan?

Get real.

It's about execution and you can blame the coach for a lack of that indirectly, but on gameday - execution is the domain of the players.

I don't like the idea that because I am giving time to Neeld that I am some sort of unthinking zealot hell-bent on blind faith in the unproven.

I am trusting that the stolen IP from Collingwood, Adelaide, Sydney, and St Kilda will put us in a good place.

Do I know Neeld can coach?

No.

But I know that he knows what a good midfield looks like.

And I know that Craig knows how a professional culture is built.

And I know that Misson knows how to build a modern day footballer.

It's the IP, stupid...

(No, seriously, I hate the "it's the..., stupid" stuff too.)

It's the IP, stupid...

(No, seriously, I hate the "it's the..., stupid" stuff too.)

not as much as I hate the term "IP"

Each week now we are getting talk of how we performed against our 'markers' from Neeld in his after match report.

What if the markers are wrong. We can improve on them all we like but if they are wrong what's the point.

To be more precise your markers are built upon one's philosophy of the game.

It's obvious to blind Harry that one's philosophy has to do with the speed and efficiency of ball movement. (a la Hawks) Defense is then developed to support this. (a la Hawks)

Whoever happens to have gone to the past North games will know that they have 'pantsed us' for some time because they have a a philosophy closer to this than we do. I need not analyse all other teams but from the first game against the Lions this is what has been happening. This week he commented on how slick they moved the ball, but that wasn't his concern it was more to did with our b.... markers.

Neelds philosophy and therfore markers are off the mark and unless he changes we will be changing our coach sooner than he thinks. Someone said middle of next year. I suspect it will be a little longer, but at this stage he'll be very lucky to survive his contract.

I reckon Mark Neeld thinks about the game a lot, lot deeper than you.

5 page "Total faith in the Neeld way" thread on the first page but apparently HRs ideas warrant their own thread? Nein.

not as much as I hate the term "IP"

Why is that?

Why is that?

because i think it is used too widely outside it's original use (like so many other words) and sounds pretentious

the word knowledge would have been sufficient

JMPO

Every coach has a philosophy, known or unknown. It is implemented by a plan (eg team rules) and let me say markers (Neelds words).

You sound as though youv'e bought the spin that is being thrown up and that you are happy to accept that we had to bottom out. Perhpas your right but as this is my club (60 years so far) and not Mark Neelds. This is his job for a few years and so I reserve the right of a supporter to ask questions when we hit bottom.

Were you happy that for the first eleven minutes after they left Neeld North scored 4 goals to zip, then the next time he had an extended time with them they came out and had three goals scored against them in four minutes. Analysis by Neeld is important, but it better be right.

No I haven't bought any spin - I see exactly where we sit - pretty f@*kin low

I was very frustrated with lack of execution and the multiple poor decisions by players against Norf on the weekend. I can't comment if they were contributed by coaching philopsophies or rules but they were an embaressment.

For me I personally think Neeld is giving certian players a chance to prove themselves at AFL level - afteralll we are talking about people and their livelyhoods here. I also think it's our senior players who are our worst offenders in the inability to execute or lead and that is why some of them find themselves out of the leadership group.

Look I may be wrong I am not fussed if I am.......... What I have seen from Neeld is he has brought toughness and good recruiting (Mitch Clark looks the goods and the jury is out on the recruits) But my point is I am prepared to back Neeld for a couple more seasons so he can implement his philosphy

Without wishing to sound too biblical with Mark it is a case of "blessed are those that have not seen but yet believed ".I may be ( to carry on the theme ) a doubting Thomas but I have seen nothing to suggest that we are on the right track with him .What concerns me is that haunted look on his face every time there is a camera close up .It is hardly reassuring .I doubt that the players are committed to him or even on his wave length .From the time the leadership was turned upside down until now the season has been a complete disaster .How anyone would have the unmitigated temerity to suggest that it will turn around is beyomd me .Can anyone point to one measurable ,quantifible area where we have improved ?

Without wishing to sound too biblical with Mark it is a case of "blessed are those that have not seen but yet believed ".I may be ( to carry on the theme ) a doubting Thomas but I have seen nothing to suggest that we are on the right track with him .What concerns me is that haunted look on his face every time there is a camera close up .It is hardly reassuring .I doubt that the players are committed to him or even on his wave length .From the time the leadership was turned upside down until now the season has been a complete disaster .How anyone would have the unmitigated temerity to suggest that it will turn around is beyomd me .Can anyone point to one measurable ,quantifible area where we have improved ?

You'd have a haunted look on your face too if you were coaching a side that had only one legitimate quality midfielder (Jones).

Without wishing to sound too biblical with Mark it is a case of "blessed are those that have not seen but yet believed ".I may be ( to carry on the theme ) a doubting Thomas but I have seen nothing to suggest that we are on the right track with him .What concerns me is that haunted look on his face every time there is a camera close up .It is hardly reassuring .I doubt that the players are committed to him or even on his wave length .From the time the leadership was turned upside down until now the season has been a complete disaster .How anyone would have the unmitigated temerity to suggest that it will turn around is beyomd me .Can anyone point to one measurable ,quantifible area where we have improved ?

I question whether the leadership decision was his or made In conjunction with the players. I suspect pressure from someone above with an axe to grind.

I wont..Im sick of the whinging stupidity that comes on here at times. There are some who obviously have the brain power of a 5 yo on green cordial and then there seem to be a lot who obviously couldnt run a [censored] up in a brewery yet challenge those that actually know how to do it. I wonder sometimes is it out of jealously, pure ignorance, or some relative of the tall poppy syndrome.

Some cant stand it when their chosen idol is lamabasted becuase the bloke simply cant play to save his life ( at AFL level ) and they take personal offence. It annoys me that some seem to have no life what so ever outside of following a football team they they have had any quality of persepctive erased from their sight.

It annoys me that some cant understand that even if there were some major stuff ups over the last so many years , by many , that its NOT Neelds fault. Hes been here not even a yeasr. it will take a few seasons and definitely a 2-3 presaeasons to drum the new way into the new list ( or new form of it ) Yet some still think that because nothing is visible before them that its all bad and all going downhill.

Its not all bad . Its a process, the battering balls and dozers are about to come in. The architects and engineers have been on the job for a while now. What will be just as amusing to me will be when we are starting to climb, are becoming the NEW Demons that some clowns will think and utter, "its about bloody time" without deference to the idea its been happening all along, just that they were too dumb or blind to see it.

Go Dees

LOVE IT!! About time indeed. Engineers are working in the background now? What's the process...ahhhh anyone think Trenners would be a good Captain? Great!! Foundation is what we need. Got to build from the ground up. 5yo on Green cordial? Smarter than a 40 yo with blurred vision from way too much beer and red wine I say. Get real !!

kallangurdemon, on 30 July 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Without wishing to sound too biblical with Mark it is a case of "blessed are those that have not seen but yet believed ".I may be ( to carry on the theme ) a doubting Thomas but I have seen nothing to suggest that we are on the right track with him .What concerns me is that haunted look on his face every time there is a camera close up .It is hardly reassuring .I doubt that the players are committed to him or even on his wave length .From the time the leadership was turned upside down until now the season has been a complete disaster .How anyone would have the unmitigated temerity to suggest that it will turn around is beyomd me .Can anyone point to one measurable ,quantifible area where we have improved ?

Great Post Kallang! Mere fact RR finds it necessary to sign off with "I believe.....Neeld" says to me that Neeld is indeed coaching appallingly and his position is in peril. Fact is Neeld is not in Peril for at least another year. A year is a long time in Football and things may turn around RR. No need to put these banners up so early in one's tenure? Makes us nervous.

I question whether the leadership decision was his or made In conjunction with the players. I suspect pressure from someone above with an axe to grind.

The buck always stops with the coach! Excuses!!!!

I question whether the leadership decision was his or made In conjunction with the players. I suspect pressure from someone above with an axe to grind.

That's a ridiculous assertion.

http://thewall.com.a...ch-joins-demons

Misson worked with Sydney from 2001 to 2007, including the 2005 premiership.

Lyon, a former Swans assistant coach, lured Misson to St Kilda when Lyon took over as senior coach in 2008.

Saint were top 4 that year. But they had talent galore.

Lyon took over at the end of 2006 after Thomas was sacked when we beat Saints in the elimination final, Saints struggled under Lyon for a good part of 2007 but finished their last 6 or 7 games really well and just missed the 8. They played in a prelim in 08 and were runners up in 09/10. Having said that they weren't coming from as far back as we were after prelims in 04 & 05 and making finals in Thomas's last year

You'd have a haunted look on your face too if you were coaching a side that had only one legitimate quality midfielder (Jones).

RR=

1. What is the difference between a legitimate quality midfielder and a quality midfielder?

2. Given Trengove is a midfielder surely Neeld would not have picked him as Captain if he was not "legitimate quality?"

Surely he was not selected on the basis of his youthful appearance alone.

Do you still believe in Neeld given such a calamities decision?

Do you concede that Neeld is simply not much of a motivator and Trengove along with many others have not progressed let alone thrived under him.

That's a ridiculous assertion.

No way Hosey!! RR you must know better that my friend? Decision was made by the Coach in consultation with the players.

Rrrright ...okayyy. Stay away from the yaba pills TPM.

First answer the question RR+

Range Rover, on 30 July 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

You'd have a haunted look on your face too if you were coaching a side that had only one legitimate quality midfielder (Jones).

RR=

1. What is the difference between a legitimate quality midfielder and a quality midfielder?

2. Given Trengove is a midfielder surely Neeld would not have picked him as Captain if he was not "legitimate quality?"

Surely he was not selected on the basis of his youthful appearance alone.

Do you still believe in Neeld given such a calamities decision?

Do you concede that Neeld is simply not much of a motivator and Trengove along with many others have not progressed let alone thrived under him??

Want to see you twist your way out of this one....then we can talk Yaa baa...I can even post you a song about it

RR=

1. What is the difference between a legitimate quality midfielder and a quality midfielder?

2. Given Trengove is a midfielder surely Neeld would not have picked him as Captain if he was not "legitimate quality?"

Surely he was not selected on the basis of his youthful appearance alone.

Do you still believe in Neeld given such a calamities decision?

Do you concede that Neeld is simply not much of a motivator and Trengove along with many others have not progressed let alone thrived under him.

Trengove is an interesting one. He is struggling no doubt but to mind it has nothing to do with his role as captain. Hopefully we can put his 2012 form down as an aberration.

One thing that needs to be corrected is this idea Neeld is somehow infallible. He is human and will make mistakes along the way, as do all coaches.