I get bored watching us dish up the same stuff week on week, so I turn the TV off. Then I can't bear to not know what's happening, so I turn it back on again. That's been my last few weeks. It's probably different for people who go each week.

I think what keeps me going is not loyalty, but the fear that when the "happiness train" arrives that it will leave without me. I could withdraw my emotional investment, but I choose not to, because I want to be able to truly enjoy the moment when it comes and I don't think I could if I dumped the club during the hard times. Every bit of pain is a credit in the bank that I intend to reclaim when success comes.

It better bloody come.

Very well said Nasher - I sympathise completely.

What a laughing stock this club is, next year I will donate my money to a worthy cause, a more deserved charity case, RSPCA or boat people, or something,

See ya. Why wait?

I'm struggling for optimism on 2013. I don't see any light.

Clark back

Viney and another (hopefully 2) gun mids injected into this 3rd world midfield

Jurrah back (hopefully)

Another pre-season into the team, injury free squad (hopefully)

Look forward to seeing kids like Taggert, Tynan, maybe Evans show their stuff.

There are things to look forward to. Without them I'd be without hope

This may sound stupid to some of you all but I for one would like to see a mass brawl with punches thrown and opposition players smashed around for a few minutes .I would like the opposition to actually have some fear associated with playing us .We have so much Sh!t on our list that they may as well be used for something.It's all a bit nice and professional and"not the face".The effect this would have would be to inject some passion and some desire to run hard for your mates .

They dont look like mates ATM .

They look like guys trying not to make mistakes .

You're right. It does sound stupid.

The has been no natural improvement in any of the list we're the least skilled established club in the game.

Frawley

Garland

Mckenzie

Bail

Trengove

Dunn

All gone backwards where is the natural development we're actually getting more shite

Whilst I generally agree with you, I can't accept that Frawley's gone backwards. Our midfield is deplorable, the opposition gorge themselves on the Sherrin, week after week our defenders find themselves under more pressure than a deep dea bathysphere. So, given the fact that he's facing a footballing tsunami every weekend, I reckon Frawley's doing fine and cops unwarranted criticism. Today's match is a good example. North had 62 inside 50s, Petrie, who's red-hot at the moment, kicked four, one of them on Sellar (good match-up, eh?) in the opening minute of the game - for mine, Frawley did a good job against a fine player in trying conditions. If we had more players like number eight, we'd be in much better shape.

Clark back

Viney and another (hopefully 2) gun mids injected into this 3rd world midfield

Jurrah back (hopefully)

Another pre-season into the team, injury free squad (hopefully)

Look forward to seeing kids like Taggert, Tynan, maybe Evans show their stuff.

There are things to look forward to. Without them I'd be without hope

By my calculations that would mean over a third of our team that took the field today would be out.

Surely you aren't being serious?

We can make it come nasher.

I would love to contribute to the 'new winning culture' of the MFC.

Like all great movements, we need a 'creed' or 'constitution' or '10 commandments' so to speak.

Structured beliefs such as 'Always play to win'.

V Gold Coast it's tick tock for Neeld if we lose

We're better off losing to them if it gets us a better chance to snatch Viney with our second rounder.

9 goal loss to a team that are supposedly the 'new' Geelong was a good effort

I'd like to meet the fool who said North are the 'new' Geelong sounds like a fool who would be easily parted from his money.

By my calculations that would mean over a third of our team that took the field today would be out.

Surely you aren't being serious?

lol over the course of the year obviously.

But yes- 2013 "Ins"- Clark, Jurrah, Viney, pick 2, pick 3, pick 13?(maybe), Tynan ∨ Taggert ∨ Evans ∨ Gysberts

"Outs"- Bate, Dunn, Bennell, the rest tba

I get bored watching us dish up the same stuff week on week, so I turn the TV off. Then I can't bear to not know what's happening, so I turn it back on again. That's been my last few weeks. It's probably different for people who go each week.

I think what keeps me going is not loyalty, but the fear that when the "happiness train" arrives that it will leave without me. I could withdraw my emotional investment, but I choose not to, because I want to be able to truly enjoy the moment when it comes and I don't think I could if I dumped the club during the hard times. Every bit of pain is a credit in the bank that I intend to reclaim when success comes.

It better bloody come.

Yep, I turn on and off. What I struggle with is that in Hardwick's first year, when Richmond took ages to get a win, they really showed something in the second half of the season. We just haven't shown anything for supporters to cling to. I like watching Richmond. They can't quite nail it but jeez they try. Remember how we laughed at them for winning in 2009 so we got the priority pick?

Somehow tacked my response inside your quote Nasher!

Whilst I generally agree with you, I can't accept that Frawley's gone backwards. Our midfield is deplorable, the opposition gorge themselves on the Sherrin, week after week our defenders find themselves under more pressure than a deep dea bathysphere. So, given the fact that he's facing a footballing tsunami every weekend, I reckon Frawley's doing fine and cops unwarranted criticism. Today's match is a good example. North had 62 inside 50s, Petrie, who's red-hot at the moment, kicked four, one of them on Sellar (good match-up, eh?) in the opening minute of the game - for mine, Frawley did a good job against a fine player in trying conditions. If we had more players like number eight, we'd be in much better shape.

Did you see Frawley in 2010?

If you think he hasn't gone backwards your dead set lying to yourself.

Did you see Frawley in 2010?

If you think he hasn't gone backwards your dead set lying to yourself.

You mount a convincing, reasoned, well-argued case. In 2010 we won eight and a half games; Frawley wasn’t under the hammer anywhere near as much as he is in 2012 andhe was able to be a real springboard from defence. But, given the fact that he’s fighting an uphill battle every week this season, and is regularly pitted against taller and stronger opponents who are spoon fed the ball thanks to our non-existent midfield, I still reckon he does a good job for us and is one of our better players. I repeat, today’s effort is a prime example: keeping Petrie to three goals (one kicked on Sellar) given the circumstances was darned good stuff.

All this crap about Neeld is doing my head in. He is supported by some very competent people and assistants.

Neil Craig

Jade Rawlings

Leigh Brown

Todd Viney

Brian Royal (don't start another bashing)

The other line coaches and FD staff.

Not for a scond do I believe that between all of these heads that there is an issue with the direction of the club and the strategy that they have all bought into. If there was, surely there would be noise in the media and murmurings within the corridors of AAMI park. The only people who are looking disgruntled about things are a few of the players and it's due to a new level of accountability in regards to fitness, discipline and a defensive, contested style of football.

We know, from the ample proof and general consensus scattered through many posts that the majority of the list is not up to it and never will be yet we have still have some supporters shouting for Neelds head. He knows we're rubbish and is coaching to a plan that is sorting the sense from the senseless so that trade week and drafts are as fruitful as possible. Next year will be in stark contrast to this.

Lets see..

Take the NM list.. and pick their best 22 and compare to todays players and come up with a percentage of how manyof their best 22 took to the field today.

Take our list and do the same.

Compare those percentages.

Im guessing their % is far >>>>>>>>>>>>> than ours.

Its not that hard to understand some things, though some take it to an art form !!

Can you use this same analysis for the Carlton side tonight against Richmond and then put it into perspective with what you wrote on this post?

All this revisionist stuff is pathetic. 2 years ago it was universally touted by all and sundry including experts, commentators, supporters etc that we had the most promising young developing list in the comp. Something has gone seriously wrong. Can only be grossest incompetence of the lowest order of those we trust to run our club.

Or people grossly overrated our list and thought that just because we had a bunch of untried kids picked in the top 20 that would automatically translate to success.

All this crap about Neeld is doing my head in. He is supported by some very competent people and assistants.

Neil Craig

Jade Rawlings

Leigh Brown

Todd Viney

Brian Royal (don't start another bashing)

The other line coaches and FD staff.

Not for a scond do I believe that between all of these heads that there is an issue with the direction of the club and the strategy that they have all bought into. If there was, surely there would be noise in the media and murmurings within the corridors of AAMI park. The only people who are looking disgruntled about things are a few of the players and it's due to a new level of accountability in regards to fitness, discipline and a defensive, contested style of football.

We know, from the ample proof and general consensus scattered through many posts that the majority of the list is not up to it and never will be yet we have still have some supporters shouting for Neelds head. He knows we're rubbish and is coaching to a plan that is sorting the sense from the senseless so that trade week and drafts are as fruitful as possible. Next year will be in stark contrast to this.

Sort of reminds me of one of the scenes in 'Bullitt' where McQueen does a 180 to get it right which you need to do - or is it a case of one too many 'frothies' as referred to earlier?

There was 3 occasions today where Sylvia did not chase. I saw and heard some MFC powerbrokers giving it to him, our senior players just don't get it, their attitude in the modern game is deplorable.

Or people grossly overrated our list and thought that just because we had a bunch of untried kids picked in the top 20 that would automatically translate to success.

This is at the essence of why we are rubbish.

The line that the club was feeding us from the CEO down to the member, that high draft picks would lead us to an era of greatness, lead us into an era of complacency.

I think as a club, we all didn't work hard enough, beleiving that it would just happen because we had high draft picks, whether this happened consciously or sub-consiiously, it happened. We are now all paying for it.

The footy gods are a [censored].

Sort of reminds me of one of the scenes in 'Bullitt' where McQueen does a 180 to get it right which you need to do - or is it a case of one too many 'frothies' as referred to earlier?

Sober or not this is my steadfast opinion.

If we had have landed Malthouse as coach we would be in more or less the same circumstance as today's.

Sober or not this is my steadfast opinion.

If we had have landed Malthouse as coach we would be in more or less the same circumstance as today's.

Something tells me tonatopia doesn't agree with you.

So how do we fix the problem and start winning?

Please give me more than, 'it will take time'.

I firmly believe our list is capable of making finals.

I see the upside of all players, I even think fellas like petered and bennell can be developed to be very good footballers.

Something tells me tonatopia doesn't agree with you.

We're all individuals.

If everyone agreed on here it would be as exciting as watching our team today.