SLEEPERS

[jackaub 1,402]

Surely they realise they are playing for their careers? ....and theyre still insipid.

i just think there will be a huge cleanout at the end of the year, with 6 or 7 players traded or delisted for some fresh talent.

Make that 12

by the way the same 12 that i named 2 years ago

[Cherrybaby 9]

given the skill level, spectators were running away from the ground today RD , not towards it

I was at the game and I had more fun looking at the pigeons flying around for most of the game. Seriously, it was a bad game by both teams. I also went to the Saints and Bombers game last night and noticed how much faster both teams were in comparison. We are so slow! I could only look on and think we have such a long way to go to get anywhere near that level!

[Range Rover 1,935]

I was at the game and I had more fun looking at the pigeons flying around for most of the game. Seriously, it was a bad game by both teams. I also went to the Saints and Bombers game last night and noticed how much faster both teams were in comparison. We are so slow! I could only look on and think we have such a long way to go to get anywhere near that level!

Is this the same St Kilda we were competitive against and the same Bombers that we beat a month ago?

[Geddy Lee 582]

We don't even shepherd. The basics aren't there. Depressing game.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,102]

I'll take my credibility with me as I watch Adelaide (didn't they finish next to us on the ladder last year?) move to top spot or close after tonight's expected win (it is only 3/4 time and they have lost two players)!

How would you rate the Crows top 6 players against ours? How many of their best side missed tonights game? How many major injuries have they had this year?

Taking out like for like lets remove Tippett (Clark), Walker (Jurrah), Jacobs (Jamar), Johncock (Bartram), Talia (T-Mac), Petrenko (Davey). I wonder how the game would have looked then.

NB: I would put Gysberts and Strauss probably in our best 21 but can't judge them as they haven't got on the park all year.

[machine11 142]

How would you rate the Crows top 6 players against ours? How many of their best side missed tonights game? How many major injuries have they had this year?

Taking out like for like lets remove Tippett (Clark), Walker (Jurrah), Jacobs (Jamar), Johncock (Bartram), Talia (T-Mac), Petrenko (Davey). I wonder how the game would have looked then.

NB: I would put Gysberts and Strauss probably in our best 21 but can't judge them as they haven't got on the park all year.

Neeld has to start developing a few of the younger boys. Hope some put there hands up in the twos. It looked as if Neeld was hurting in yesterdays press-conference. I am sure he was just as depressed as supporters that the players cannot perform at a level higher than Auskick. If two players can oly pick up 25 touches, one has to ask are the other mids really of AFL standard?

[machine11 142]

We don't even shepherd. The basics aren't there. Depressing game.

As Neeldy mentioned in his press-conference. Just didn't do the basics. Time to really swing the axe on a few players and give them a kick up the backside.

[dbj1983 138]

Bail, Bate, Dunn and Moloney must all be cut at the end of this year. Too often these players turn the footy over with basic foot skill errors. For our club to move forward we need to get rid of the type of players.

Moloney is an absolute disgrace! If he wants to put himself on the market and test the waters with other clubs then [censored] off. He is an over rated player who has shown NO heart all season and isn't a leaders a.hole.

[thaipantsman 180]

For the record, I would barely say I am a person with too much faith. I have no idea whether Neeld will make it or not, but all I am doing is refusing to blame him for past errors and am willing to give him time to do his job.

And that earlier comment was not meant to infer that you were comparing Neeld to Bailey.

Barely?? Just a little faith then Forest Demon?? Just enough to stick with Neeldy. ForestD ..I was getting very ANTI Neeld. Really couldn't see the game plan going anywhere and still don't think the players are totally backing him. Something about him that worries me. Lots of talk and spin and not a hell of lot of action. For example not one single omission after the Lions match. Continually leaving Rivers at FF, Watts on Brown, starting Spencer at FP OR FF instead of First Ruck...bla bla....selecting Bennell thinking he will the next Eddie Betts.

He has L plates and a long way to go as a coach. V Bombers demonstrated the passion was there and that was enough for me to support him.

If this time next year we are 2 wins then the faith may wither.

[Hannibal 5,814]

We had no right to play as badly as we did. I don't know how good a coach Neeld is, or will be, but right now he's not the problem.

Two years ago I sat on a train to the G. I sat opposite a Father and his young Son, both clad in Richmond gear, and I remember thinking "you poor bastards". I knew what it was like to be crap and I knew we still were, but there was a fair bit of blue sky about Melbourne at that time, while the poor old Tiges were on their way to possibly being the worst team since Fitzroy. Is it only two years ago ? Even at a recent function Chris Connolly had laughed and shamed Richmond supporters to putting their hands in the air. A few sheepishly did. It was also on the back of Whiteboard Wednesday, the Red and Blue Print, the murmurings that we were going to be the team of the next decade, and it was only a year earlier that Harry O'Brien was waxing lyrical about telling his Grand-kids that he played in Jack Watts' first game - was he taking the [censored] ? I feel a little sorry for Cam Schwab. He had to engender confidence in a club that had too little for too long. He must feel a little dirty now that maybe he's sold the supporters a pup. But I don't blame him. And I don't blame Neeld. He's only been here 8 months and he's trying to teach AFL footballers how to have a defensive mindset first and foremost, which is how finals are won. He's inherited a list and has rightly decided to not make too many changes and to see what they've got. He won't be able to fix the list in one draft period, but he'll make considered changes. And there will be many.

As mentioned, we had no right to be as bad as we were yesterday. We had more 25 and older players than Richmond and we even had more 100 game players. Rightly, or wrongly I still reckon we have the core makings of a good team. We have a dozen players on our list that have shown they're capable of being really solid AFL citizens. The rest you could arguably turf out tomorrow and it would hardly cause a ripple. A few of the NQR's will be better in a better team, so it's not a necessity to get rid of everyone, but you get my drift. As has been pointed out for an eternity on these forums the midfield is deplorable. And I aplogise to Nathan Jones when I say that. I reckon I've arguably been his harshest critic, but he's taken his game to another level and cut out a lot of his decision making errors. I can only respect his progress and his efforts. The thing that gives me hope is that the midfield is arguably the easiest area to fix. It's not easy getting quality key defenders, just ask St. Kilda, but with Frawley, Watts, Tom McDonald, and Rivers, we're OK. Mitch Clark needs help in the forward line, but with Garland and hopefully Jurrah and maybe Cook and occasionally Howe I think we're OK - save for that damaging small forward. The rucks should be OK too.

We had 9 top 20 draft picks between 2007-2009. They should be starting to be the cornerstone of our side. For varying reasons they're not. It's a gaping hole. And there's no point mentioning our lack of senior players as it is what it is. The draft this year is vital. And I know I've said that before to like minded Melbourne supporters. We were right then and we're right now. This year we have to make every opportunity a winner. We have every chance to draft at least 3 top shelf mids and possibly 4. It's a must. I watched an under 18 South Australian side that put to shame our kicking skills. I had two concurrent thoughts; it was embarrassing, but it also gave me hope that things can turn around relatively quickly.

I still wouldn't want to be that Richmond Father or Kid on the train, but I'm afraid that I'm presently that poor bastard. And yes, we won that day.

[Bonkers 994]

So many people on this site reckon the sky is falling!

Was a bad loss, agreed. Disposal was very poor, agreed. Are Melbourne experimenting with plays like Rivers and Garland forward and Dunn in defence? Clearly.

There's several players who clearly aren't up to it, and this last few weeks is clearly about Neeld having a good look at them so he can make a good informed decission about who to keep, who to move on, and what position is best for them to play moving forward.

For me I got a bit out of today. Sylvia I now still have hope for, and reckon Neeld can still mold him into an elite midfielder after building up his fitness base over the first half of this year. Garland I reckon is a forward and that's his spot going forward, with the occasional move down back. Martin can make it, showed a bit in the ruck and up forward, just needs to improve his set shots and awareness. Jones has become a top notch midfielder. Spencer's 2nd efforts are great, but he wont make it in the long run. Bate, Dunn and Bennell are gone at seasons end. And Bail and Nicholson will spend more time at Casey then in Melbourne's 22 next year unless they drastically improve their disposal.

Come on people, I marked this season as a write off after round 2. For the rest of this year I'm just looking forward to the continued improvement of players in the seniors and at Casey, trade week/fortnight and the draft. Lets look forward, not back!

Not a bad summary. I still have doubts about Stef Martin. His awareness & kicking are attrocious for an AFL player, I don't know if that area of his game will improve enough for him to make the grade.

I've noticed most people want Bennell gone, however he is one player on our list that can effectively hit a target by hand & foot. He has speed also. What he needs is hardness & to find the ball more. Perhaps he needs confidence & some belief instilled into him.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,102]

Neeld has to start developing a few of the younger boys. Hope some put there hands up in the twos. It looked as if Neeld was hurting in yesterdays press-conference. I am sure he was just as depressed as supporters that the players cannot perform at a level higher than Auskick. If two players can oly pick up 25 touches, one has to ask are the other mids really of AFL standard?

Who should he develop? Gysberts and Strauss who are about to play their third consecutive game for the first time this season? Taggert, Evans, Jetta? The only one that has had any continuity on the park is Davis and we have no spot to give. Cook needs to look comfortable at this level before given a shake but I dont think his time is too far away. Couch is not development he is filler but I think he will give more than Moloney at present.

NB: I am assuming you're last question is rhetorical.

[Axis of Bob 11,671]

It's definitely the midfield, above all else. Yes, there are other areas for improvement but, as Richmond shows, a strong midfield gets you most of the way there.

And people ask 'why are we worse than last year with the same midfield?'

Under Bailey we played a very attacking style. Our midfield ran forward of the ball and relied on our strong defence to turn the ball over for us. The current football department must have decided that this style wasn't going to win us a flag (like the Bulldogs).

Neeld is making players run both ways with their opponent. This requires a lot more running, plus it also requires explosive running away from contests so that the midfielders can get free. Last year they got free because they 'cheated' forward of the ball in the hope that we would win the footy. Look at the number of time Moloney got free forward of the ball last year (as a slow midfielder without great aerobic capacity) compared with this year.

This style of play relies on the running ability of the midfield far more than it has in the past. Our midfield are, generally, poor runners. That's why there has been such a focus on building that running ability into the players, which will take time. I'd be very surprised if we don't select midfielders that have very good running ability (speed + endurance) with our early picks.

Look at who our best players have been this year and then match that up with their running ability. There aren't many poor runners that have flourished under Neeld, while those that run well (like Jones, Howe and McDonald) have generally done well.

[beelzebub 23,313]

its got me stuffed why any one puts any other description on this season than: exam time for players/ info Re-Boot come seasons end/trade-draft period.

My theory on why a couple of backs are playing forward is they were supposed to bring theri defensive pressure with them and so enable the ball to be kept in the forward 50 if and when it got there. Conversely a few forward types go back to learn wtf defensive pressure is all about. Lessons learnt from this.. More than a few of our blokes havent a clue... Im gobsmacked...thats NEWS ??? But we know for sure now. And a couple more get there cards stamped as dcm in 2013.

This is EXPOSURE footy. This has the players out from whatever they were hiding behind in terms of skills ( sic ) and ability and putting them on the spot. . Its warts and all footy for the benefit of post season selection.

Amaziingly more than a handful are too plain dumb to realise it and that in itself will help us as we can get rid of the numnuts and get smarter more responsible types who get what turning up to play ( let alone earning a buck) really means.

go Dees ...now and 2013 !!

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,102]

Neeld is making players run both ways with their opponent. This requires a lot more running, plus it also requires explosive running away from contests so that the midfielders can get free. Last year they got free because they 'cheated' forward of the ball in the hope that we would win the footy. Look at the number of time Moloney got free forward of the ball last year (as a slow midfielder without great aerobic capacity) compared with this year.

Yesterdays presser for me pretty much showed that, barring an obscenely too good to refuse trade scenario, Colin Sylvia will be at MFC next year but Moloney is dead man walking (obviously not running). If you cant get away from the contest both ways there is no place for you.

Edited July 8, 2012 by big_red_fire_engine

[Axis of Bob 11,671]

Yep. Sylvia's pace and power is something that is useful. He's a player that Neeld needs to harness and simplify his role in the team.

Moloney can't run, so his only hope is that his big body can protect others (or his running improves). I suspect that he'd be a really good pickup for a young team like Gold Coast, and we'd both win from that deal.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

There was just no spread yesterday absolutely none! The tigers would use the corridor and when they did turn it over we had no one running back into the forward 50 to kick to. Why we didn't go in with an established forward Green/Petterd or even cook is beyond me. The use of the wings is starting to drive me nuts. We cannot kick winning scores by creating stoppage after stoppage and eventually get the ball down forward. As I said in another post I was at the game and was more interested in what we were doing off the ball as we had no chance of winning and when the tigers pushed up the ground they still had at least three players about 80 metres out who would then run back to the forward line and put on multiple leads. We would push all the way up the ground and Not one player would run back which makes our ball carriers look stupid. I don't like knocking coaches but it was a badly coached game when it came to team selection and it was a bad game plan which was then followed up by bad execution by the players. All in all a crap day yesterday.

[640MD 3,352]

At least a few people here talk some sense

In Neeld we trust. What choice have we got?

If we don't follow Neeld it will be another untried coach, for another lost year,

Its time to see how much tank some of the lesser players at Casey have,

Give them a game see if they can cut it, If at all, flick those that cannot.

Fix those that are injured, and start preseason 2013, THis season is gone, or Gawn.

Any of the "untrieds" wont cause us to lose more games than this lot right now !

[Bonkers 994]

If we don't follow Neeld it will be another untried coach, for another lost year,

Its time to see how much tank some of the lesser players at Casey have,

Give them a game see if they can cut it, If at all, flick those that cannot.

Fix those that are injured, and start preseason 2013, THis season is gone, or Gawn.

Any of the "untrieds" wont cause us to lose more games than this lot right now !

I'm pretty tired of the club giving games to kids that haven't fully earned their crack at AFL level. It's one of the reasons the club is in the position its in. If the club has drawn a line through the player they are replacing in the side in terms of they won't play for the club again then I can see a case for playing the kids. Otherwise make their performances at VFL level demand selection. I'm happy for Neeld to play the harder bodied players until he has made his mind up about whether they are required players or not.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

My take on Neeld will be made at the end of the year when I see how long the piece of paper is that has the heading De listed players. If he does hold on to most of this list he either drinks too much or is delusional. All new coaches inherit turds let's just see how many he flushes at the end of the year.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I'm pretty tired of the club giving games to kids that haven't fully earned their crack at AFL level.

Collingwood have had 5 debutantes this year and Melbourne two.

[The Third Eye 258]

Neeld is making players run both ways with their opponent. This requires a lot more running, plus it also requires explosive running away from contests so that the midfielders can get free. Last year they got free because they 'cheated' forward of the ball in the hope that we would win the footy. Look at the number of time Moloney got free forward of the ball last year (as a slow midfielder without great aerobic capacity) compared with this year.

This style of play relies on the running ability of the midfield far more than it has in the past. Our midfield are, generally, poor runners. That's why there has been such a focus on building that running ability into the players, which will take time. I'd be very surprised if we don't select midfielders that have very good running ability (speed + endurance) with our early picks.

Look at who our best players have been this year and then match that up with their running ability. There aren't many poor runners that have flourished under Neeld, while those that run well (like Jones, Howe and McDonald) have generally done well.

And where does the ability to dispose of the ball with skill and make good decisions when moving the ball fit into your scenario?

[Bonkers 994]

Collingwood have had 5 debutantes this year and Melbourne two.

What's your point?

[Hannibal 5,814]

And where does the ability to dispose of the ball with skill and make good decisions when moving the ball fit into your scenario?

There's a significant trust issue with the players. It's effecting many facets of our game. It effects their run and spread, because they get sucked into contests that they don't think their teammate will win and they second guess themselves rather than play instinctively. It's that hesitation that leads to turnovers through poor kicking and decision making. Trusting your teammates is a massive issue for this football club.

Footy is a game of inches and you don't have to be off by much to look horrid.

[Hannibal 5,814]

What's your point?

I agree that some are getting games that they don't warrant, but I'm not sure that it's much more than most clubs. And Neeld has some big list decisions at year's end, so it's reasonable to expose some of them before casting verdicts.