What I'm worried about is that we persist with neeld for three years and find out that he can't coach. It is quite evident at the moment that his performance is terrible. We are getting smashed by everyone. We would be crazy not to be approaching malthouse, Roos, choco or any other proven coach, just in case neeld's performance stays at this level.

Anyone who says neelds performance has been good, should take off their rose colored glasses and have a look at the performance of other clubs just to put things in perspective.

The buck stops with neeld. We are crap.

This is the worst post I have ever read.

And that's saying something.

Well done tonatopia.

I still can't understand why Bate is included here. His foot skills are not that far away from Jack Watts' when it's on his better side. Obviously he needs to develop his two-footed skills.

Regardless, having slept on it and awoken to find that the world is still rotating, I think the foot skills vs endurance vs spreading is a bit of a chicken or the egg situation. If our players were short on the ability to do any of these things when Neeld arrived, which one do you focus on first or can you work on them simultaneously? If the decision is that you need to focus on one, then stamina/endurance is the place to start. Neeld has definitely selected players who have performed in this area first - including Nicholson, Jones, McDonald & Bate who impressed during the pre-season. From memory, Bail also did pretty well. Of these, in my opinion, Bate has the best foot skills. Clearly, for most of this group, work needs to be put in on developing the other skills but I wouldn't be surprised if they are rightly persevered with.

Reverting to the turd-polishing debate, I noticed in the Age Footy today that there was talk of 'not gilding the lily'. This is yet another activity that I would like Mythbusters to confront. Perhaps a combined activity of 'gilding the turd' might be undertaken as I'm fairly sure that this is achievable.

A wise man once said "You can't polish a turd but you CAN roll it in glitter ."

This is the worst post I have ever read.

And that's saying something.

Well done tonatopia.

Let ignore be your friend - sure (almost) troll proof protection (except when the poster with moster - not - is quoted)

What I'm worried about is that we persist with neeld for three years and find out that he can't coach. It is quite evident at the moment that his performance is terrible. We are getting smashed by everyone. We would be crazy not to be approaching malthouse, Roos, choco or any other proven coach, just in case neeld's performance stays at this level.

Anyone who says neelds performance has been good, should take off their rose colored glasses and have a look at the performance of other clubs just to put things in perspective.

The buck stops with neeld. We are crap.

Mate...Im not too sure you quite get cause and consequence.. You might suggest that its Neeld causing our mallaise and the consequence is we are crap. Its not this way in reality. There have , by all accounts, wholesale changes in the methodology and execution of what we collectively call the "game plan". In order for the execution to work you need willing and able combatants. Here we fall down.. Some are somewhat willing...others cant be accused of giving much of a toss. Able ? For mine able infers obviously...ability. Now here we also have had some rude shocks as we now realise many just dont have basic skills let alone 'elite'.

So the real cause of our predicament is not a result of Coaching as it seems in many areas there are distinct improvements. Neeld and sundry seem to have done quite a job really managing to field a team when so many of our first choie best 22 arent available.

It just seems a lot of our players seem incapable ( for either the two pre-described reasons..willingness/ability ) of carrying out the new way that our new coach wants the MFC to play football.

The buck doesnt stop at all with Neeld....it stops fairly with players. Those that cant will be replaced with some that can.

Some people can't handle the truth.

Binman and burgundy, keep your heads in the sand, it is safer there, until reality smashes you to pieces. Cowards!

handle the truth? .... some dont understand it ??

Bb59, you can come up with excuses for the next 3 years, that's fine. However, I am interested in premierships not more bloody excuses.

How can players be good one year and crap the next. The coaches job is to get the team to win games of footy. Remember, we won about 8 games last year. This year we have won 2. Give us all the excuses in the world, the reality is that we are last on the ladder (albeit suns & giants).

The excuses group is alive and well at MFC.

Bb59, you can come up with excuses for the next 3 years, that's fine. However, I am interested in premierships not more bloody excuses.

How can players be good one year and crap the next. The coaches job is to get the team to win games of footy. Remember, we won about 8 games last year. This year we have won 2. Give us all the excuses in the world, the reality is that we are last on the ladder (albeit suns & giants).

The excuses group is alive and well at MFC.

Ha ha ha.... What a pisser. You thought our players were good last year.

This is the worst post I have ever read.

And that's saying something.

Well done tonatopia.

Not even close Ron - read your own post 229 - the worst case of sucking up/head in the sand I've seen!

I'd like to pay tribute to two Demon players who displayed absolute guts yesterday in two incidents.

One was Jared Rivers who had to commit to running back with the flight knowing he'd be crunched.Similarly Luke Tapscott with Morris. On both occasions we came off second best, but as a Melbourne supporter I was proud of those efforts.Tappy showed that as well as dishing it out, he can take a heavy knock.

Posters have all noted that If Richmond had kicked straight they'd have killed us, but we missed a few sitters as well. In fact if you give us Magner's goal , take off the unfair goal they got from a 50 meters for nothing, and give us a couple of easy shots we missed, we'd have beaten them, despite playing probably as badly(skill-wise) as we have all season!

"a couple of easy shots we missed, we'd have beaten them". Please spare me this. What's the old saying - "if my aunty had balls she'd be......." . FFS we are shite and we need to do something about it urgently.

That's the bottom line.

I thought moloney was a ripper.

What I'm trying to say is that every player in the afl system, can play good football and in most cases were prodigious talents as youngsters. The coach is responsible for developing the talent and allow them the perform as a united team.

2 years ago, most commentators were saying we had the most exciting list in the afl. Voss went as far to say that we had a 'superteam'. Well, what went wrong? Lyon selected neeld, that's what went wrong.

Bb59, you can come up with excuses for the next 3 years, that's fine. However, I am interested in premierships not more bloody excuses.

Mate...im champing at the bit for a cup...been a long wait. But Id only be disappointed and despondent currently if I thought it was ever all going to happen overnight. Given the realities that were exposed concerning the club it may well take 2-3 years to show a real side capable of a crack. If nothing by then.. its a different kettle of fish.

How can players be good one year and crap the next. The coaches job is to get the team to win games of footy. Remember, we won about 8 games last year. This year we have won 2. Give us all the excuses in the world, the reality is that we are last on the ladder (albeit suns & giants).

I cant come at the notion we were any good last year...by what indices ? games won. On the surface youd think that would fly. But we were playiing to the limits of our supposed ability..There was no scope for improvement in reality...what you saw was it. To create a rose bush you need to prune , prune, prune and then care for it and voila !! We where we are on the ladder because thats where we are in terms of our new journey.. Were starting out.

The excuses group is alive and well at MFC.

Excuses.? No...im suggesting there are REASONS for where and who we are.

There you go, more excuses.

I thought moloney was a ripper.

What I'm trying to say is that every player in the afl system, can play good football and in most cases were prodigious talents as youngsters. The coach is responsible for developing the talent and allow them the perform as a united team.

2 years ago, most commentators were saying we had the most exciting list in the afl. Voss went as far to say that we had a 'superteam'. Well, what went wrong? Lyon selected neeld, that's what went wrong.

Your comments on the selection of Neeld are spot on Tona - why wasn't the job advertised widely and why weren't the expected wide range of applicants interviewed? It may surprise many posters that I have nothing personal against Neeld, but I am very angry with the selection process!

Not a bad summary. I still have doubts about Stef Martin. His awareness & kicking are attrocious for an AFL player, I don't know if that area of his game will improve enough for him to make the grade.

I've noticed most people want Bennell gone, however he is one player on our list that can effectively hit a target by hand & foot. He has speed also. What he needs is hardness & to find the ball more. Perhaps he needs confidence & some belief instilled into him.

Hi Bonkers-Yes and Neeld can see this. Bennell was very good last year. He showed signs yesterday. Maybe just enough to warrant another game. I hope so.

Your comments on the selection of Neeld are spot on Tona - why wasn't the job advertised widely and why weren't the expected wide range of applicants interviewed? It may surprise many posters that I have nothing personal against Neeld, but I am very angry with the selection process!

To a large extent I agree with Tonatopia and Hardnut re: Neeld. Process was badly flawed and no other club really wanted Neeld. Melbourne got badly sucked in.

I have warmed to Neeld a little since the Bombers game not because we won that game but more so the out pouring of emotion from NEELD proved to me has has the passion. He does have the passion and appears the players like him. Two very important requisites.

Am sure he realizes the wrong call was made re duo Captain set-up and if given the same opportunity again would give it to Jones/Clark/Jamar. That's not to criticize Trenners or Grimesy only to say both are way to young and immature.

This is the worst post I have ever read.

And that's saying something.

Well done tonatopia.

IMO- MFC are a laughing stock. A premium list one day pathetic the next. Not Neeld's fault just feel Melbourne rushed this process. Malthouse is available next year though Neeld would have to quit.

NEELD'S still on L plates remember. Who can recall pre-season him sitting with Trenners and Grimesy. No games between the lot of them that is as Coach or Captains.

Mighty Demon Ron Burgundy needs to come into the real world and perhaps view a game from the General Stands to get a more balanced view. In other words come into the real world.

Mate...Im not too sure you quite get cause and consequence.. You might suggest that its Neeld causing our mallaise and the consequence is we are crap. Its not this way in reality. There have , by all accounts, wholesale changes in the methodology and execution of what we collectively call the "game plan". In order for the execution to work you need willing and able combatants. Here we fall down.. Some are somewhat willing...others cant be accused of giving much of a toss. Able ? For mine able infers obviously...ability. Now here we also have had some rude shocks as we now realise many just dont have basic skills let alone 'elite'.

So the real cause of our predicament is not a result of Coaching as it seems in many areas there are distinct improvements. Neeld and sundry seem to have done quite a job really managing to field a team when so many of our first choie best 22 arent available.

It just seems a lot of our players seem incapable ( for either the two pre-described reasons..willingness/ability ) of carrying out the new way that our new coach wants the MFC to play football.

The buck doesnt stop at all with Neeld....it stops fairly with players. Those that cant will be replaced with some that can.

No rudder boat loses direction.

There you go, more excuses.

Do you think the players we had last year, the players that won 8 games, were good enough to take us in to the finals this year?

Do you think the type of football that lost us the game against Geelong by 186 points was good enough?

We won 8 games on the last gasp of the former Daniher players and they were running out of steam well before the season finished; they weren't good enough then and they simply aren't good enough now. I don't know what you expect from Neeld I don't think you do either, you just want to win games and can't understand that the players we currently have aren't good enough to do that.

Hi Bonkers-Yes and Neeld can see this. Bennell was very good last year. He showed signs yesterday. Maybe just enough to warrant another game. I hope so.

When was Bennell good last year?

This premium list you refer to in your next post, when did we have that and who were the players that you consider made it a premium list?

We have a bunch of very ordinary players and we've been conned in to believing that they were talented; they never were and never will be, if Cam Bruce was still with us I guarantee he would be getting a game, how many has he played this year with Hawthorn?

ZERO.

No rudder boat loses direction.

We have a rudder, but unfortunately the boat is full of holes.

Those who think Neeld is a failure or the reason for our current situation or think that they are able to judge him based on his coaching career so far are an absolute joke and so far out of touch with reality it is not funny. That's not to say Neeld will prove a success but the man has to be given a chance to prove himself and create the list he wants.

Also lol at those indicating our players were playing well and on the up last season. I really loved watching them embarrass themselves with bruise free footy on Friday night football, capitulate in dramatic fashion against the Eagles in Perth and reach the dizzying heights of 186 in Geelong. Bring back those heady days I say! Way too many of our players are absolute rubbish and/or lazy and that has nothing to do with Neeld or the current FD.

No rudder boat loses direction.

no one at the oars goes nowhere !!

I think bennell has many attributes that can make him a very very good footballer. I have seen him do things that are fantastic. He is the prime example of a potentially top line footballer that has not been developed.

I think bennell has many attributes that can make him a very very good footballer. I have seen him do things that are fantastic. He is the prime example of a potentially top line footballer that has not been developed.

I agree to an extent with this but that doesn't fall at Neeld's feet. Bailey had him for 3 years and didn't develop him but Neeld after 9 months is supposed to have made him into the next Andrew McLeod? Does not compute.