Could you please list those observations that have wrought such criticism?

rpfc, we were both asked politely to cease our ongoing debate due to the space it was taking on threads - I intend to honour that request. You can, of course, find all of my comments by a simple member search, as you would know.

Jamar wins most of the centre bounce taps but almost always taps it to the opposition. Surely if he is goof enough to win the tap then he is good enough to put it down Moloney, Trengove or McKenzies throat! We were smashed in the middle all day today (except when Clark rucked).

Even when he does it seems they are always tackled before disposing. Is it too simple to think the midfielders are on their heels too often?

Speaking of not winning the them all I was reflecting this morning that next weekend could be the best of the season for Dees supporters.

- We will not lose next weekend

- No one will get injured

- No one will get suspended

- Morton will not play a bad game

- Bennell will not play a bad game

- sylvia will not get injured ( then again the bars are open )

- I will get to Sunday night in a good mood

All in all a good 10 days are ahead.

Thank god for the bye round

A lot of others ? Rash generalisation there.

Grant Thomas now knows that his initial comment regarding a "complete change in game plan" was way over the top last Monday week.

It has evolved as Neeld had promised and players knowledge and confidence is now starting to result in a better understanding. It's gaining traction. As the team progresses further tweaks (layers will be peeled back for the players) will come to fruition.

There are many rash generalisations to be found on demonland - goes with the territory!

The style of game has definitely changed for the better - my positive comment was related to focussing on basic skills which will make an attacking style of play less risky.

I am amused at the vehemence of the denials of any suggestion of a change in 'game plan'. I have always embraced change in a positive and constructive way. Isn't it possible that Mark Neeld started out with an approach that he later realised needed to be modified (which of course he would rightly not state in the media) and to his credit has embarked on that changed path?

We can play semantics all day long, but compare earlier games this year with the last couple of games and a definite change of style appears, and there is nothing wrong with that.

The style of game has definitely changed...

Thanks to Neelds instructions the players are becoming more aware of the intricacies and demands are now being met, where they weren't prior. Much to Neeld and MFC's supporters frustrations. As Neeld says we're now beginning to see glimpses, longer glimpses. It's these glimpses you identify as change. Change, because now, they're actually doing it, less hesitation and more confidence in taking risks instead of going down the line. They're switching and opening up outlets.

I am amused at the vehemence of the denials of any suggestion of a change in 'game plan'. I have always embraced change in a positive and constructive way. Isn't it possible that Mark Neeld started out with an approach that he later realised needed to be modified (which of course he would rightly not state in the media) and to his credit has embarked on that changed path?

It's possible. But I like you, embrace change. We know that the non negotiables and defensive mindset is being instilled into the players within their framework style. So too that the game itself has changed since the start of the season. Neeld and his team have adapted whilst still maintaining their priorities. A greater knowledge, understanding, and being more instinctive as a group has led to a higher confidence and competitiveness. Yes, these levels have changed, and some interpret it as a complete change in gameplan.

Don't be too disheartened if this is how you see it. It's all positive in the outcome.

It's interesting that everyone has spoken about Rivers going forward to provide another option there, when in fact I think he was put there because the Pies were exposing him in the backline (again), by using his man as an outlet on the wing when moving the ball from defense.

Unfortunately, as Riv can't play on their gorillas(as we saw last year) and doesn't have the speed or the tank to chase a mid to smalll forward up to the wing he was a liability back there.

That was good coaching by Bucks, but also a tick to Neeld to make a positive move and push Riv forward for us as well.

I am not condemning Rivers useless, because he has been fantastic for us this year, but I would do this every week if I were opposing coaches. If we had some half forwards with the work ethic of the likes of some of the Pies(Goldsack, etc), then maybe we could have exposed the likes of a Maxwell in the same manner.

Anyone disagree with this?

Even when he does it seems they are always tackled before disposing. Is it too simple to think the midfielders are on their heels too often?

One of my biggest hates about our midfield is what you have mentioned here. I have noticed twice in the 4th quarters in the last 2 games that Grimes has had a clearance while running at full tilt when roving the ball and getting a clean takeaway from the stoppage. This is completely foreign to almost anything we have served up all year, and I can't understand why we can't get this to happen more often.

If Jamar is winning the hitouts, why aren't our midfielders getting to the ball on the move and clearing it? Is it a communication issue? Jamar fault? The lack of blocking from our midfielders? or a combination of all?

Thanks to Neelds instructions the players are becoming more aware of the intricacies and demands are now being met, where they weren't prior. Much to Neeld and MFC's supporters frustrations. As Neeld says we're now beginning to see glimpses, longer glimpses. It's these glimpses you identify as change. Change, because now, they're actually doing it, less hesitation and more confidence in taking risks instead of going down the line. They're switching and opening up outlets.

It's possible. But I like you, embrace change. We know that the non negotiables and defensive mindset is being instilled into the players within their framework style. So too that the game itself has changed since the start of the season. Neeld and his team have adapted whilst still maintaining their priorities. A greater knowledge, understanding, and being more instinctive as a group has led to a higher confidence and competitiveness. Yes, these levels have changed, and some interpret it as a complete change in gameplan.

Don't be too disheartened if this is how you see it. It's all positive in the outcome.

I love your style of writing H_T - you could have a career with a politician as a speech writer come spin doctor - no offence intended.

I'm glad you embrace change because, as you say, it has already happened, and further change is both needed and inevitable.

In simple terms, it would appear that we see the changes that have occurred from different perspectives. You have stated your viewpoint very eloquently. My viewpoint is that the original approach to the game process was fundamentally flawed - it has since shown signs of improvement, but there is a long way to go and a heavy emphasis on 'basic skills' is one example of the changes required.

Do not concern yourself, I never allow myself to become disheartened - just more determined.

Thank you for an informative and constructive discussion - much better than sniping one-liners.

One of my biggest hates about our midfield is what you have mentioned here. I have noticed twice in the 4th quarters in the last 2 games that Grimes has had a clearance while running at full tilt when roving the ball and getting a clean takeaway from the stoppage. This is completely foreign to almost anything we have served up all year, and I can't understand why we can't get this to happen more often.

I saw this too - sprinting out of the congestion, ball in hand - no one touched him

great - and hopefully a sign of things to come

Something we lack in close sometimes is quick reflexes.

One of my biggest hates about our midfield is what you have mentioned here. I have noticed twice in the 4th quarters in the last 2 games that Grimes has had a clearance while running at full tilt when roving the ball and getting a clean takeaway from the stoppage. This is completely foreign to almost anything we have served up all year, and I can't understand why we can't get this to happen more often.

If Jamar is winning the hitouts, why aren't our midfielders getting to the ball on the move and clearing it? Is it a communication issue? Jamar fault? The lack of blocking from our midfielders? or a combination of all?

The latter-ask Chocco Royal.

Mitch Clark is god!

No I do not think he is Jaded.

I have it on good authority that god does not have Tats.

One of my biggest hates about our midfield is what you have mentioned here. I have noticed twice in the 4th quarters in the last 2 games that Grimes has had a clearance while running at full tilt when roving the ball and getting a clean takeaway from the stoppage. This is completely foreign to almost anything we have served up all year, and I can't understand why we can't get this to happen more often.

If Jamar is winning the hitouts, why aren't our midfielders getting to the ball on the move and clearing it? Is it a communication issue? Jamar fault? The lack of blocking from our midfielders? or a combination of all?

Coz Jamar drops the ball on his bootlaces. Pretty hard to take the ball at speed running into the pack and trying to avoid the Russian all at the same time

Either Jamar is being miscoached/instructed or he's not following instructions

He needs to have more confidence in his midfield and hit it further out

It's interesting that everyone has spoken about Rivers going forward to provide another option there, when in fact I think he was put there because the Pies were exposing him in the backline (again), by using his man as an outlet on the wing when moving the ball from defense.

Unfortunately, as Riv can't play on their gorillas(as we saw last year) and doesn't have the speed or the tank to chase a mid to smalll forward up to the wing he was a liability back there.

That was good coaching by Bucks, but also a tick to Neeld to make a positive move and push Riv forward for us as well.

I am not condemning Rivers useless, because he has been fantastic for us this year, but I would do this every week if I were opposing coaches. If we had some half forwards with the work ethic of the likes of some of the Pies(Goldsack, etc), then maybe we could have exposed the likes of a Maxwell in the same manner.

Anyone disagree with this?

One of my biggest hates about our midfield is what you have mentioned here. I have noticed twice in the 4th quarters in the last 2 games that Grimes has had a clearance while running at full tilt when roving the ball and getting a clean takeaway from the stoppage. This is completely foreign to almost anything we have served up all year, and I can't understand why we can't get this to happen more often.

If Jamar is winning the hitouts, why aren't our midfielders getting to the ball on the move and clearing it? Is it a communication issue? Jamar fault? The lack of blocking from our midfielders? or a combination of all?

I think you are pretty much on the money with both of these posts "Jerry".

Coz Jamar drops the ball on his bootlaces. Pretty hard to take the ball at speed running into the pack and trying to avoid the Russian all at the same time

Either Jamar is being miscoached/instructed or he's not following instructions

He needs to have more confidence in his midfield and hit it further out

The technique of dropping it at his feet is an old one that Hawthorn used in the Jeans/Joyce era with the idea being Jamar and the umpire would create a block. Now the AFL worked out that umpires were being used and getting run into so it's an expensive exercise to use the umpire in this way.

Maybe it's past it's use by or maybe the application is not so good, if say Moloney takes the ball at Jamars feet then we should have someone running on to take the ball off him and that's what seemed to be the plan last week however Collingwood were aware and fed off us. With better awareness we either draw players to us and spread or if they are not coming at us block and break. We just don't have enough quality in there at the moment.

The latter-ask Chocco Royal.

A very correct suggestion.

The technique of dropping it at his feet is an old one that Hawthorn used in the Jeans/Joyce era with the idea being Jamar and the umpire would create a block. Now the AFL worked out that umpires were being used and getting run into so it's an expensive exercise to use the umpire in this way.

Maybe it's past it's use by or maybe the application is not so good, if say Moloney takes the ball at Jamars feet then we should have someone running on to take the ball off him and that's what seemed to be the plan last week however Collingwood were aware and fed off us. With better awareness we either draw players to us and spread or if they are not coming at us block and break. We just don't have enough quality in there at the moment.

The umpire is nowhere near Jamar when he taps it onto his bootlaces

Heck, they rarely bounce the ball at 90 deg to the ground anyway

The umpire is nowhere near Jamar when he taps it onto his bootlaces

Heck, they rarely bounce the ball at 90 deg to the ground anyway

I'm just telling you what the theory was, not if it works or not. It did but doesn't seem to be now, is that because of application or just an obsolete idea.

I'm just telling you what the theory was, not if it works or not. It did but doesn't seem to be now, is that because of application or just an obsolete idea.

i'd be very surprised if they were working on that theory as an offensive strategy

why jamar persists with i don't know

unless its part of neeld's strategy to force the mids to work more on their contested ball stats at the expense of any offensive attacking instincts?

i'd be very surprised if they were working on that theory as an offensive strategy

why jamar persists with i don't know

unless its part of neeld's strategy to force the mids to work more on their contested ball stats at the expense of any offensive attacking instincts?

If Jamar persists with it then it has to be under instruction and there is a reason, it's just not working whatever it is.

Something we lack in close sometimes is quick reflexes.

Especially since young Tom has left us. Quite a few of his handballs bounced off our midfielders' chests.