On 12/05/2012 at 08:44, Range Rover said:

And he's prepared to get flogged week-in week-out, enduring the inevitable calls for his sacking by supporters fearful of change, in order to get the job done.

There's no doubt about that.

I'd hardly suggest his ability to tolerate defeats is testament to his strengths though. If you listened to Ross Lyon speak earlier in the year you would have heard him speak about the importance of an early win to building confidence from within an organisarion. There's nothing wrong with laying out a broad plan but I fear that he's thrown the baby out with the bath water and is playing a dangerous game with our footy club. Like it or not the last 7 weeks have proven this too (if not the last few weeks of the NAB cup too).

What exactly happens if he doesn't work? It's a high risk game he's playing.

  On 12/05/2012 at 09:31, daisycutter said:

i have been hardtack for 7 weeks now

let me know when i can stop i'm getting a really short of breath

You've been me for 7 weeks now??? You definitely need to remove the bag!!

I've backed the players for far too long, only to see them throw up chicken hearted efforts time and again. No more. There is something seriously wrong at our club and has been for a long time. Neeld has my full support to do whatever he thinks needs doing to fix it.

If they play his style we will see how good he is as a coach, we have to build fitness, we have to learn aa different game plan.

Should see some results 2nd half of this year, next year, etc

  On 12/05/2012 at 09:58, Macca said:

Kahuna's ? To take on a head coaching job ?

They either remain an assistant on way less money or take the job of a head coach on about 3 - 5 times more money . Often with a 3 year guarantee . Sympathy for any coaches , any time , is misguided . Go and join the general workforce if you can't handle being a head coach . Oh , and be prepared for a bit of a paycut .

Coaches get well renumerated for their time . At least 6-7 times the average Australian wage and up to 15 times this amount . And there is a fairly good life after coaching . They're not forced to do it .

At the moment all Neeld has proven is that we don't know if he can coach or not . His game plan is ridiculous and won't work . It's only a matter of time before somebody in the media will take his outdated game plan to task . And then watch all the others jump in like vultures . Hardest team to play against ? What an absolute joke . Now , he might or should get much better . I hope so , but only those with blind faith will guarantee that .

Pressure needs to be put on Neeld . It should have happened after round 2 . He needs to abandon this game plan altogether and start again . I hope he's not too stubborn to change . All our attacking flair and creativity has vanished . Our teamwork is virtually non existant . That is Neeld's fault . The buck stops with him , as it should . I'm not calling for his head but he needs to lift his game .

The players don't get off the hook . Only Clark , Jones , Magner and maybe Bartram , Howe , McKenzie , McDonald and Rivers have had acceptable years so far . The rest are either way below form or not good enough .

Yep lets get Neeld to re-implement the old game plan hey? Worked really well didnt it.

It was so much better winning 6 games a year and finishing 12th rather than building a gameplan that takes pain and time.

Should have had pressure after round 2 hey? Wow 1 preseason and 2 games in. How would you go moving into a new job with no structures, poor systems and a myriad of issues both on and off the field to turn around. And what in 3 months of a preseason and 7 games?

Yep really realistic.

  On 12/05/2012 at 08:44, Range Rover said:

I'm backing him in come hell or high water.

Good post, despite what some are saying. Very easy to look at the scoreboard or listen to a Walls or McClure make s*** up and then get angry and call for heads.

There is not one MFC supporter or player who knows what a successful AFL club looks or feels like in this era so pay attention people. Still probably a few half-arsed senior players on the list to be cut loose and some who aren't up to it but I have no doubt that Neeld is the bloke for the job.

Yes we are success starved but I am surprised how how many of our supporters are on Neelds back already given what was clearly a basket case and s***storm that came to a head in the secomd half of last year.

  On 12/05/2012 at 09:58, Macca said:

Kahuna's ? To take on a head coaching job ?

They either remain an assistant on way less money or take the job of a head coach on about 3 - 5 times more money . Often with a 3 year guarantee . Sympathy for any coaches , any time , is misguided . Go and join the general workforce if you can't handle being a head coach . Oh , and be prepared for a bit of a paycut .

Coaches get well renumerated for their time . At least 6-7 times the average Australian wage and up to 15 times this amount . And there is a fairly good life after coaching . They're not forced to do it .

At the moment all Neeld has proven is that we don't know if he can coach or not . His game plan is ridiculous and won't work . It's only a matter of time before somebody in the media will take his outdated game plan to task . And then watch all the others jump in like vultures . Hardest team to play against ? What an absolute joke . Now , he might or should get much better . I hope so , but only those with blind faith will guarantee that .

Pressure needs to be put on Neeld . It should have happened after round 2 . He needs to abandon this game plan altogether and start again . I hope he's not too stubborn to change . All our attacking flair and creativity has vanished . Our teamwork is virtually non existant . That is Neeld's fault . The buck stops with him , as it should . I'm not calling for his head but he needs to lift his game .

The players don't get off the hook . Only Clark , Jones , Magner and maybe Bartram , Howe , McKenzie , McDonald and Rivers have had acceptable years so far . The rest are either way below form , injured or not good enough .

Exactly my thoughts Macca.

IMO we have at this point no idea if Neeld is or will be a good coach.

What we do know is that our list is serious short of players above average.

The results speak for the themselves.

I believe I am looking at the worst melbourne side since the mid Seventies.

  On 12/05/2012 at 10:09, Footynut said:

Yep lets get Neeld to re-implement the old game plan hey? Worked really well didnt it.

It was so much better winning 6 games a year and finishing 12th rather than building a gameplan that takes pain and time.

Should have had pressure after round 2 hey? Wow 1 preseason and 2 games in. How would you go moving into a new job with no structures, poor systems and a myriad of issues both on and off the field to turn around. And what in 3 months of a preseason and 7 games?

Yep really realistic.

I never said anything about the old game plan . There are obviously more game plans than Bailey's or Neeld's . Essendon's and Adelaide's game plans are looking ok . Attacking flair , defensive pressure etc etc .

I don't like Neeld's game plan . You do .

Let's leave it at that .

  On 12/05/2012 at 09:58, Macca said:

Kahuna's ? To take on a head coaching job ? They either remain an assistant on way less money or take the job of a head coach on about 3 - 5 times more money . Often with a 3 year guarantee . Sympathy for any coaches , any time , is misguided . Go and join the general workforce if you can't handle being a head coach . Oh , and be prepared for a bit of a paycut . Coaches get well renumerated for their time . At least 6-7 times the average Australian wage and up to 15 times this amount . And there is a fairly good life after coaching . They're not forced to do it . At the moment all Neeld has proven is that we don't know if he can coach or not . His game plan is ridiculous and won't work . It's only a matter of time before somebody in the media will take his outdated game plan to task . And then watch all the others jump in like vultures . Hardest team to play against ? What an absolute joke . Now , he might or should get much better . I hope so , but only those with blind faith will guarantee that . Pressure needs to be put on Neeld . It should have happened after round 2 . He needs to abandon this game plan altogether and start again . I hope he's not too stubborn to change . All our attacking flair and creativity has vanished . Our teamwork is virtually non existant . That is Neeld's fault . The buck stops with him , as it should . I'm not calling for his head but he needs to lift his game . The players don't get off the hook . Only Clark , Jones , Magner and maybe Bartram , Howe , McKenzie , McDonald and Rivers have had acceptable years so far . The rest are either way below form or not good enough .

Great post Macca.

Footynut - read this and think! You claim to have more insight into the club - in which case you should realise that Neeld has had 6 months, not just 7 games to make a difference. You should also know how other clubs operate - we are simply not performing well enough at all levels. You should also realise that you are offending people who don't just react emotionally to one week losses - many of us think way beyond that, and have done so for a long time, despite decades of poor performance from MFC. You might also like to consider Adelaide's performance so far this year.

  On 12/05/2012 at 10:01, The heart beats true said:

There's no doubt about that.

I'd hardly suggest his ability to tolerate defeats is testament to his strengths though. If you listened to Ross Lyon speak earlier in the year you would have heard him speak about the importance of an early win to building confidence from within an organisarion. There's nothing wrong with laying out a broad plan but I fear that he's thrown the baby out with the bath water and is playing a dangerous game with our footy club. Like it or not the last 7 weeks have proven this too (if not the last few weeks of the NAB cup too).

What exactly happens if he doesn't work? It's a high risk game he's playing.

I guess it all comes down to the question of why the MFC actually exists. Is it to win a flag or is it to just float along, make up the numbers and die a slow death of irrelevance?

If it's the former - as I hope most of us would like - then I'm sorry you've got to take some risks. This is high stakes poker and you can either ante up or get the frack off the table.

  On 12/05/2012 at 10:14, diesel said:

Good post, despite what some are saying. Very easy to look at the scoreboard or listen to a Walls or McClure make s*** up and then get angry and call for heads.

There is not one MFC supporter or player who knows what a successful AFL club looks or feels like in this era so pay attention people. Still probably a few half-arsed senior players on the list to be cut loose and some who aren't up to it but I have no doubt that Neeld is the bloke for the job.

Yes we are success starved but I am surprised how how many of our supporters are on Neelds back already given what was clearly a basket case and s***storm that came to a head in the secomd half of last year.

By my estimation we have approx. eight players who are up to AFL standard the rest are simply not up to it.

I expect to be in the ground Before the MFC plays in finals

I totally agree with you fn. We either continue down the road of mediocre results or we get rid of the rot on and off the field and start to build something that is solid. It is a tough game football, and unfortunately players are judged every week on their performance. If they are not interested or too soft then find another home. Yeah, it is hard to watch the defeats and it is easy for the media and everyone else to 'kick a dog when its down' but we need to stand for something. People are often quick to criticise and point the finger with few solutions. I don't advocate to know how to change things around, but I am prepared and patient enough to give the coach time.

Eh... *shrugs*

0-7, playing considerably worser footy than GWS, GC, quite far removed off the pace.

I'm not in this anymore to have faith and just to stick by someome because they've got it tough. You can only have it tough for so long. Get the job done.

Melbourne is last on the ladder after 7 rounds. Accountability.

  On 12/05/2012 at 09:31, daisycutter said:

i have been hardtack for 7 weeks now

let me know when i can stop i'm getting a really short of breath

I am on my third bag and I only got back this morning!

  On 12/05/2012 at 10:17, Hardnut said:

Great post Macca.

Footynut - read this and think! You claim to have more insight into the club - in which case you should realise that Neeld has had 6 months, not just 7 games to make a difference. You should also know how other clubs operate - we are simply not performing well enough at all levels. You should also realise that you are offending people who don't just react emotionally to one week losses - many of us think way beyond that, and have done so for a long time, despite decades of poor performance from MFC. You might also like to consider Adelaide's performance so far this year.

Yes Adelaide - the club where Neil Craig laid the foundations.....good observation....

Do you think Sanderson just walked in and all of a sudden the list got better? Neil Craig assembled a good list. We should let he and Neeld do their job.

Clearly you haven't read any of my other posts. You don't understand what he has had to do to get the club even to this point. But thats understandable you have your view. And not sure if you read that I did state one preseason and 7 games?

In terms of insulting other people - I didn't realise it was offensive to ask supporters to stick with the 7 game coach who has a plan. The club needs all the support they can get. What I see here is meltdown and people saying they wont buy memberships. (Understand that isn't you)

PS Im the real 'nut'

  On 12/05/2012 at 10:15, Macca said:

I never said anything about the old game plan . There are obviously more game plans than Bailey's or Neeld's . Essendon's and Adelaide's game plans are looking ok . Attacking flair , defensive pressure etc etc .

I don't like Neeld's game plan . You do .

Let's leave it that .

Fair enough - bump - play on...

  On 12/05/2012 at 10:17, Range Rover said:

I guess it all comes down to the question of why the MFC actually exists. Is it to win a flag or is it to just float along, make up the numbers and die a slow death of irrelevance?

If it's the former - as I hope most of us would like - then I'm sorry you've got to take some risks. This is high stakes poker and you can either ante up or get the frack off the table.

I agree but the risks have to be calculated. My fear is that if you walk into any workplace and say 'you guys are [censored] and you're doing it all wrong' you run the risk of losing confidence from your group really quickly when you don't get results. That appears to be what's happening in our case at times. In the balance of high risk high reward I think the risk is too big and we havent seen a single reward from it.

I'm not suggesting Neeldy should be fired. That's absurd. I just have concerns about the balance of management versus teaching that is happening. The players look concerned to make mistakes all the time. Management is about balance too, not just my way or the high way.

  On 12/05/2012 at 09:51, BIG JIM said:

I will give neeld time and support but i will not keep putting faith in a board that keeps serving up crap. They said they would get the best coach there was. well ross lyon,Rodney eade,Mick malthouse,Paul roos,Choco williams are all great coaches that are proven and this board once again took a risk like dean bailey and got a rookie so the board have got to take the heat if we fail again. Mark neeld talks well but im waiting for the results and im running out of faith

Only Ross lyon from your list is coaching a team this year, and we all know the way in which Freo pinched him. Neeld was the best available. In time we will know if it was the right choice. However after 7 games we have learnt very little.

  On 12/05/2012 at 10:35, Footynut said:

Fair enough - bump - play on...

Yeah Footynut , it's ok to agree to disagree . It's just opinions , after all .

I don't often vent but our long kicks to a contest , many times towards the boundary just doesn't suit our list . Even if we had the skilled players to pull it off I doubt whether it would be effective anyway . And only having 77 handballs is just not going to work . If we can't hit targets with precision kicks either then that means we have no real teamwork . What we end up with is an ugly brand of footy that isn't effective . The players look lost out there .

The game has moved on anyway . I don't have a problem with Neeld's hard nosed attitude or his demeaner (though that "hardest team to play against" comment could hurt him )

  On 12/05/2012 at 09:54, Footynut said:

I'm with you RR.

I have said this before and I am lucky to have more insight to the internal workings of the club than most.

It does take balls of steel to do what he is doing.

Well you are in a position to see, have a good look. If they seem like steel they're probably dead.

Courage is merely one attitude necessary. While I like lots about him I've got growing doubts about his game plan . Defense is one aspect, but you cann't jettison attack. The best coaches are multiperspectival. Bailey wasn't, he was lucky to get his four. I 'll give him two years to show more, otherwise I'll be calling to cut loose those 'jingle bells'

  On 12/05/2012 at 10:41, The heart beats true said:

I agree but the risks have to be calculated. My fear is that if you walk into any workplace and say 'you guys are [censored] and you're doing it all wrong' you run the risk of losing confidence from your group really quickly when you don't get results. That appears to be what's happening in our case at times. In the balance of high risk high reward I think the risk is too big and we havent seen a single reward from it.

I'm not suggesting Neeldy should be fired. That's absurd. I just have concerns about the balance of management versus teaching that is happening. The players look concerned to make mistakes all the time. Management is about balance too, not just my way or the high way.

From some in the group, certainly not all. The players were mollycoddled under Bailey and have now been told a few hard, home truths. Interesting to see the ones who have put aside their egos and responded with some fighting spirit (Bartram, Jones, McKenzie) and those that have hoisted the white flag (we all know who they are).

Neeld is exposing the soft, self-satisfied underbelly of the playing list and we should all be thanking him for it. It's been long overdue.

"multiperspectival" ?

Have they found a cure for that?

  On 12/05/2012 at 10:33, Footynut said:

Yes Adelaide - the club where Neil Craig laid the foundations.....good observation....

Do you think Sanderson just walked in and all of a sudden the list got better? Neil Craig assembled a good list. We should let he and Neeld do their job.

Clearly you haven't read any of my other posts. You don't understand what he has had to do to get the club even to this point. But thats understandable you have your view. And not sure if you read that I did state one preseason and 7 games?

In terms of insulting other people - I didn't realise it was offensive to ask supporters to stick with the 7 game coach who has a plan. The club needs all the support they can get. What I see here is meltdown and people saying they wont buy memberships. (Understand that isn't you)

PS Im the real 'nut'

Adelaide were headed nowhere under Craig - that's why they parted company - the original assembling of the list involved many people as you should know.

I accept your comment on the preseason - I did miss that.

As for 'the Neeld plan' - it's wrong, as I have said on other posts, and not suitable for the future - that's why the 'meltdown' you describe is apparently occurring.

You don't know what I understand about getting the club to this point (does that mean bottom out?) - I can say that this is not the way to do it.

You are the real 'nut' - I like your sense of humour!

Our previous strategy of tanking for high draft picks, and playing bruise free unaccountable football worked a treat didn't it!

So well in fact that Bailey left us with a 27% winning percentage.

Neeld is undoing previous wrongs.

RR is spot on.............our game plan under Bailey would have taken us nowhere in finals, and we wouldn't have made it in the first place!

Short term pain for long term gain.

I have seen more honest football played by us under Neeld than I ever did under Bailey.

  On 12/05/2012 at 11:17, Real Demon said:

Our previous strategy of tanking for high draft picks, and playing bruise free unaccountable football worked a treat didn't it!

So well in fact that Bailey left us with a 27% winning percentage.

Neeld is undoing previous wrongs.

RR is spot on.............our game plan under Bailey would have taken us nowhere in finals, and we wouldn't have made it in the first place!

Short term pain for long term gain.

I have seen more honest football played by us under Neeld than I ever did under Bailey.

Umm seven losses with an average approaching 10 goals.

Could we have a little less honesty?