THE VOICE - THE PEOPLE SPEAK

[rpfc 28,777]

Garry Lyon said that Jim Stynes was as competitive a player as you would ever see, but he never got upset about losing a match, at least for more than an hour or so. While he would be disappointed, Stynes never let losing harbour lingering feelings of anger, remorse or depression. He just got on with being as competitive as possible again the next week.

It's like a golfer getting angry at missing a putt or making a bad shot. The best position to take is to just concentrate on the next shot, not throw a club and let feelings of anger interrupt your preparation, application or skill execution.

Yeah, I didn't really see what Watts' said as anything other than a poor PR move from the kid.

We all hear about how hard it is on the boys when they lose and then half a day later they are tweeting about The Voice...

And players are more than welcome to their lives no matter the result - but a lesson should be to not make it a painful quote like the one that RF remembers.

[DemonWA 3,936]

Sellar has been picked at CHF infront of Watts - IMO this could be the wake up call he needs. I get the feeling that Neeld wont be in any rush to get Jack back in the side whilst we're playing the tougher teams in the competition. As he said in his first address, he wont pick player if he doesnt think "they'll go when its their turn".

It'll be interesting to see who comes back in if Cook kicks a bag for Casey this weekend. As Sellar can tell any of our young first rounders, draft position doesnt mean anything once you actually start playing

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Garry Lyon said that Jim Stynes was as competitive a player as you would ever see, but he never got upset about losing a match, at least for more than an hour or so. While he would be disappointed, Stynes never let losing harbour lingering feelings of anger, remorse or depression. He just got on with being as competitive as possible again the next week. It's like a golfer getting angry at missing a putt or making a bad shot. The best position to take is to just concentrate on the next shot, not throw a club and let feelings of anger interrupt your preparation, application or skill execution.

After missing a put a golfer can't tackle his opponent to the ground whereas a footballer can; he can aggressively tackle an opponent to make up for a mistake he made and try to retrieve the situation. The way our club is playing at the moment there are many opportunities to "retrieve the situation" but Jack just didn't and just doesn't seem to be the type that will.

I've seen over the years, MFC players, leaving the ground joking and laughing after defeat whilst the supporters are filthy and angry I'd just like to see a bit more of a balance.

[mauriesy 7,357]

I'm not in disagreement that losing has to hurt to some extent, but there's a life balance that Stynes taught us a lot about. Once the game is over, it's over. Rather than sitting around for days moping and getting personally angry, Stynes just resolved to come out next week fitter, harder and stronger, and to train better during the week.

While a golfer certainly can't tackle an opponent (!), they can still either do something about anger and lack of skill, by practicing and seeking advice, or they just keep doing the same thing over and over again, angrily, and hoping for a different outcome. That's a definition of stupidity.

It's all about positive reaction to losing rather than negative reaction.

[Guest José Mourinho]

After missing a put a golfer can't tackle his opponent to the ground whereas a footballer can; he can aggressively tackle an opponent to make up for a mistake he made and try to retrieve the situation. The way our club is playing at the moment there are many opportunities to "retrieve the situation" but Jack just didn't and just doesn't seem to be the type that will.

I've seen over the years, MFC players, leaving the ground joking and laughing after defeat whilst the supporters are filthy and angry I'd just like to see a bit more of a balance.

I think it's mindset though.

We've seen him tackle and fight for contested footy at times in the past, although sporadic.

He's a good user of the footy, and I think sees himself as that.

It looks to me like he's hanging out to be the guy on the end of the contested-footy-chain, so that he can use his skills.

He's waiting for the footy to come out to him.

That's where the issue is, not necessarily with confidence, but where he thinks he is most valuable.

This thinking needs and adjustment.

[H_T 3,049]

If you have some other idea feel free to share.

Getting gifted games hasn't done the trick in terms of developing that minimum level of hardness/appetite for the contest that's required.

I made mention some time ago on a thread far far away in another galaxy that Watts should be tried down back. Ie CHB.

I think he'll develop competitiveness by having to be more accountable and lift his intensity in the process. It should lift his work rate and give him a greater understanding of opposition players at CHF and their game and how hard other players work having to follow them.

It will also fast track how defensively minded he must be.

[PaulRB 6,411]

He lacks physical confidence. He slows down and props in pack or contested situations where he should speed up an hit the ball/opposition with momentum. It's no longer about actual size etc... but is confidence that using his body aggressively is the correct choice.

Alot of not naturally aggressive junior players have to learn the joy of using their body, and it will take time. No doubt he'll get it.

[mauriesy 7,357]

I think he'll develop competitiveness by having to be more accountable and lift his intensity in the process. It should lift his work rate and give him a greater understanding of opposition players at CHF and their game and how hard other players work having to follow them.

It will also fast track how defensively minded he must be.

He could start by playing in the backline for Casey.

[PaulRB 6,411]

Clark is at the other end of the intensity spectrum to Jack at the moment, his aggressive tackling (double tackle on boundary in third) and attack on the ball were awesome against the Dogs.

I'd be keeping Jack in the Casey team till he can consistently replicate that level of aggro (same for Liam)...

Edited May 4, 2012 by PaulRB

[Dr. Mubutu 866]

It'll be interesting to see who comes back in if Cook kicks a bag for Casey this weekend. As Sellar can tell any of our young first rounders, draft position doesnt mean anything once you actually start playing

Hmmmm.......an interesting thought. If he can get this message across to the young first round draft picks, he'll definitely have been worth the pick 54.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I'm not in disagreement that losing has to hurt to some extent, but there's a life balance that Stynes taught us a lot about. Once the game is over, it's over. Rather than sitting around for days moping and getting personally angry, Stynes just resolved to come out next week fitter, harder and stronger, and to train better during the week.

While a golfer certainly can't tackle an opponent (!), they can still either do something about anger and lack of skill, by practicing and seeking advice, or they just keep doing the same thing over and over again, angrily, and hoping for a different outcome. That's a definition of stupidity.

It's all about positive reaction to losing rather than negative reaction.

I don't want any of the players sitting around for days brooding and angry after a loss but I do want them to understand that that's why they play; not, as Bartram said for the fact they get a game each week and rack up 150 - 200 before they retire.

Anger/Aggression two different things; a golfer can show aggression by hitting the ball over the trees, or play safe by going around them, I agree that getting angry isn't the answer, especially when playing, but showing aggression is. I would like to hear that Jack gets really dirty on losing and I would like to see him get out of his comfort zone and show some real aggression.

Neita was a fairly placid sort of a guy and it was only in the later part of his career that he started to throw a bit of weight about, I reckon if he had done that earlier his reputation would have been greatly enhanced. Let's hope that Jack learns earlier in his career.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I think it's mindset though. We've seen him tackle and fight for contested footy at times in the past, although sporadic. He's a good user of the footy, and I think sees himself as that. It looks to me like he's hanging out to be the guy on the end of the contested-footy-chain, so that he can use his skills. He's waiting for the footy to come out to him. That's where the issue is, not necessarily with confidence, but where he thinks he is most valuable. This thinking needs and adjustment.

The majority of the players last week seemed to have got the message that Neeld is expecting each player to fight hard for the ball and a win, but as you say, Jack may think he is different, he seems to be playing the old Dean Bailey game when the rest of the side has moved on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big supporter of his and I hope he succeeds, but he won't if he doesn't do what the rest of the team do and just expects to be a receiver.

[Nasher 33,617]

I don't want any of the players sitting around for days brooding and angry after a loss but I do want them to understand that that's why they play; not, as Bartram said for the fact they get a game each week and rack up 150 - 200 before they retire.

You've grossly quoted Bartram out of context there. Actually, you haven't even quoted him, you've incorrectly paraphrased what he said. Here's the article:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bartram-believes-dees-are-poised-to-improve-20120426-1xo0u.html

And Bartram's quote:

I know that when I first walked through the door, all I wanted was to get a game and hold my spot in the team. But when you've been here for a while, it becomes about more than that. We've had minimal to no success, and it's up to us to make the young guys want it now.

As a young guy walking in to the club he just wanted to get a game; as a senior player transitioning in to a leader, getting a game isn't enough and he wants success. That to me is the right order of things; and it's certainly nothing like "the fact they get a game each week and rack up 150 - 200 before they retire".

[Dee Fan 3,247]

You've grossly quoted Bartram out of context there. Actually, you haven't even quoted him, you've incorrectly paraphrased what he said. Here's the article:

http://www.theage.co...0426-1xo0u.html

And Bartram's quote:

As a young guy walking in to the club he just wanted to get a game; as a senior player transitioning in to a leader, getting a game isn't enough and he wants success. That to me is the right order of things; and it's certainly nothing like "the fact they get a game each week and rack up 150 - 200 before they retire".

I think most people would be able to join the dots.

[Nasher 33,617]

I think most people would be able to join the dots.

Obviously I'm too stupid to pick up on your subtlety then. I just took what you said at face value, and if that isn't want you meant then I'll be buggered if I know what you did mean.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Nasher

[rpfc 28,777]

I think most people would be able to join the dots.

Come on, RF.

You were being unfair.

[H_T 3,049]

He could start by playing in the backline for Casey.

Correct. Now that they've conceded he has to earn his spot, there appears no better time.

However, I see Mahoney has intimated that he will play in the midfield for Casey. :/

[Guest José Mourinho]

I think most people would be able to join the dots.

Hahahahahahahaha thanks for that Robbie, needed a good laugh.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Hahahahahahahaha thanks for that Robbie, needed a good laugh.

No problems Joe just returning the favour, you yourself are an endless supply of laughs for me.

[Sir Why You Little 37,126]

We now know that Neeld will not play anyone who does not tackle or go in when it is their turn. No matter who it is.

Finally this club has woken up.

JOY.

[jimcor 212]

Anyway, the deed has been done and it's now up to Watts to demonstrate that he is up to the challenge or not. I would think that he should be expected to excel over a couple of weeks at Casey before returning to the firsts. Neeld is the coach and you can only assume that he knows what is necessary to help JW develop into a first class footballer.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

The Cats vs The Demons Round 6, 2012 – Team Stats

Total games played

Cats - 2,408 (Last time they played, Rnd 19 2011) 1,981

Demons – 1,573 1,394

Games Average

Cats - 109 90

Demons – 71 63

Height Average

Cats - 188cm , 188cm

Demons – 188cm , 188cm

Weight Average

Cats - 88kg , 90kg

Demons – 88kg , 86kg

Number of players by category

0-49 Games

Cats - 9/17 (number of players/average games played), 3/16 (Last time they played)

Demons - 9/24 , 12 /24

50-99 Games

Cats - 3/86 , 4/80

Demons - 6/80 , 4/73

100+ Games

Cats – 10/199 , 15/201

Demons – 7/125 , 6/136

Stats courtesy of footywire.com

Edited May 4, 2012 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

We now know that Neeld will not play anyone who does not tackle or go in when it is their turn. No matter who it is.

Finally this club has woken up.

JOY.

You can say that again. Maybe 1994 was the last time i saw anything like this at the MFC.....and i'm not even sure we had a mantra like this under Balme. Northey yes, but that was 20+ years ago. Been a bloody long wait but we're finally seeing some baby steps towards the emergence of a real hard edged, hard nosed footy club on the field of battle.

[Rogue 585]

He lacks physical confidence. He slows down and props in pack or contested situations where he should speed up an hit the ball/opposition with momentum. It's no longer about actual size etc... but is confidence that using his body aggressively is the correct choice.

Alot of not naturally aggressive junior players have to learn the joy of using their body, and it will take time. No doubt he'll get it.

No doubt? Plenty of players never 'get it', so I don't think it's inevitable.