Recruiting or Development.

[Jack Attack 3]

While i agree with your post I would like to add a couple of points.

I have seen many posts on here already pointing to the draft.

Fact is we have a whole season bar 2 games to go before we can draft.

I do not think it to be an overstatement to say that there are teams that have played the game that have had less talent than us and still managed to be more competitive.

I think Neeld needs to keep pushing our players regardless and attempt through the adversity to instill more heart and resilience with the group we have.

When the end of the season comes of course we can look to maximise our draft outcomes but prior to that every effort must go into turning around the culture of this club.

This will take a mammoth effort and unfortunately time (which we all don't want to stomach).

I think its unfortunate that many look towards the draft for a glimmer of hope already. It's understandable but boy we need to try to get off the canvas from here and fight starting this week against Richmond.

Reality is before the season we would have considered ourselves on par with Richmond. Reality is the only thing that has changed is players mindset. If we can get some confidence into these players and have them play honestly for each other things will have a different complexion.

Neeldy you have time....do what you know you need to do.

Agree with this whole heartedly !! Good post

[Jack Attack 3]

I don't think we should embark on an entirely new rebuild. I would like to see Neeld (and others) tweak our list Sydney Swans style. Be smart about it - recruit the best available juniors, but also broaden the lens to hunt some effective recycled older players.

List management's a continuum. And that's what's annoyed the hell out of me to date with our recruiting and list development. I think it's been utterly naive. It's as though they've said - the starting line in this race is 2013, and any player who won't be on the list then will be exited, and we'll plug games into a load of skinny, under-developed kids prior to that date and, hey presto, we'll win a flag.

To my mind, it matters not whether player 'x' or player 'y' will be around to win a flag or not. It's whether they have a valuable contribution to make for the period of time in which they're on the list. And if they're in the best 22 and they fit into the structure that the club is building, play them. Make it hard for the juniors players to earn their spot. Create a proper, hard edged club culture.

I'm glad we have Neeld at the helm. I don't know him, but I know he gets it.

Absolutley agree , we need to recruit for the now and the future , I think ur right its Definetly something we have neglected , Sydney swans are the masters at it !

[Pennant St Dee 13,301]

Bottom line is that Neale daniher and team left the list in basket case mode and no serious effort was made to recover apart from draft picks.since 2007.

Neeld and his team now have the ability and skills to do this. IMO the right rein has been pulled and its now a time issue.

Agree with this the list was that bad the rebuild was not the 3 to 5 year rebuild of other clubs. We were more on par with the Carlton of 2001/2 and a rebuild taking 8 or so years

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think that this is the main reason. Chris Judd has been instrumental in Marc Murphy's development, Hawthorn youngsters are shown the way by Hodge, Sewell and Mitchell, Scott Pendlebury is now the main man at Collingwood, but at least he and Daisy Thomas had Nathan Buckley on the list and teaching them in their first two years. The Bulldogs are down the ladder, but Liberatore, Wallis and Clay Smith have Boyd and Cross to set the standards.

The good news is we now have a fine coaching structure and some really talented youngsters that will come through together. Tapscott, Strauss, Trengove, Gysberts, Howe, Watts, Blease, Viney, Tynan, Davis and Gawn plus two first round picks from this year's bumper draft will all be around their mid twenties at the same time.

I agree with this, Of Leaders passing o the Mantle.

We have had a terminal lack of leaders over the decades since really the Smith days, pardon for some in the 80's -90's,,, but not enough, & not enough of raising the mantle handed over, to lift that standard.

We as a club sometimes seem to lose the important things in things like appearance, or dress codes....

Could you imagine this bloke lasting with us >

[Gooner 9]

This prob needs a separate thread but was thinking bout how we need to change the list for next year and obviously we need to wait till more of the season as elapsed, but for mine, we need to make at least 9-10 list changes In - Viney, compo picks x 2 ( should be outside/inside mids - would love Lachy Whitfield but we would need to finish last , possibly jimmy toumpas from SA, Nick Vlastuin from northern nights or even Jonathan O'Rourke from the Calder Cannons) , 2nd round draft pick - small forward quick and loves to tackle (maybe a shannon taylor type from WA) , 3rd round pick , 4th round pick , 1-2 smart trades to fill a need , 2 new rookies to replace Evans and Lawrence perhaps ? Out : Macdonald , Green ( he is past it !) , davey , Dunn , Bennell , maybe jetta , Evans , Lawrence and I would possibly would trade 2 of either moloney, jamar and Rivers What does everyone think , it may result in some more pain but we need to have a semi rebuild !

It's not a bad idea to have a bit of a clean out at the end of this season. I think the strength of this year's draft and the weakness of last year's draft kept a lot of players on the books who may not be there next season.

Jamar going to GWS is an interesting one. We would likely receive an end of first rounder or second round pick which will likely get us around pick 20 if he goes. Alternatively, we could trade him to another club for something around the same value. I'm not sure about trading Moloney or Rivers. I think they've both got age plus ability on their side and we don't seem to have a reasonable replacement for either of them.

If we do that and finish 16th which could be the case if we continue to play like we've been playing, we could be looking at something like picks 3, 4, 12, 22, 25, 40 and 58 although the exact order of the picks will depend on where we finish and how many compensation picks are used by teams above/below us. If Gold Coast and GWS are nice enough to let Viney fall through to our second round, we could be set for a lot of talent and whilst it's no guarantee of success, it will help build on those talented players that we've already got.

[Pipefitter 2,163]

We were gift wrapped a few years of being able to recruit the best kids in the land and we absolutely fluffed it. With very very few exceptions. I love Jack Watts as a player but I still haven't seen anything screaming " THATS WHY HES A NO 1 PICK ".

Its in the clubs best interest to get some higher picks this year. The way we are playing this will happen regardless. Our list has no stars, nothing stands out. Its just so average. And boring. No flair. Nothing.

[monoccular 17,572]

AFL footy is all about grunt.

In a big game coaches say to their players "go out and win the ball against your direct opponent" or "stop your opponent getting the ball". If your player has less power than his opponent, it does not matter how skilled your bloke is, the opponent will mostly win out.

I'm sick of watching our players look like kids against men, but until we can match it physically we can forget about winning big games and finals.

Unfortunately Neeld & Misson have inherited a mess: it takes time to build bodies, not just one preseason.

And IMO some of those bodies will not build.

[Arsene Wenger 72]

I agree with this, Of Leaders passing o the Mantle.

We have had a terminal lack of leaders over the decades since really the Smith days, pardon for some in the 80's -90's,,, but not enough, & not enough of raising the mantle handed over, to lift that standard.

We as a club sometimes seem to lose the important things in things like appearance, or dress codes....

Could you imagine this bloke lasting with us >

That's a misguided perception, not a reality.

[dee-luded 2,959]

That's a misguided perception, not a reality.

Oh really, thats what you think. We're so squeaky clean we miss the real people who'd make us stronger.

Lets see, >

[dee-luded 2,959]

That's a misguided perception, not a reality.

Hmmn,

[dee-luded 2,959]

That's a misguided perception, not a reality.

Maybe another, not so squeaky clean boy, >

[dee-luded 2,959]

That's a misguided perception, not a reality.

Hers a goody, >

This is not about facial hair or suits worn, it's about tough footballers being allowed to be themselves & being proud of who they are & growing to be...

Not about orders from HO to get a shave. And to speak like a politician dork.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I agree with this, Of Leaders passing o the Mantle.

We have had a terminal lack of leaders over the decades since really the Smith days, pardon for some in the 80's -90's,,, but not enough, & not enough of raising the mantle handed over, to lift that standard.

We as a club sometimes seem to lose the important things in things like appearance, or dress codes....

Could you imagine this bloke lasting with us >

Little Fella's to, >

[Adam The God 30,403]

As I said once before Darling will have played 60+ games before Cook gets on the park and that's if he ever gets on the park. So that means we've lost 3 years of a top class footballer banking on some skinny kid that may never play but has potential and even if he does he may never be a patch on Darling. I reckon I could have done the recruiting job at Melbourne over the last 4 or so years just by reading the HUN, BigFooty and Kevin Sheahan; what top line footballer did BP pick up that wasn't there about's in all the Phantom Drafts? We have drafted Gawn who already had a knee reco, we drafted Fitzy when he had Chronic Fatigue, we picked 3 tall skinny kids as our first pick in three of four drafts when we are crying out for midfielders.

At that stage, it seemed if the midfield had no one to kick to there'd be no point in a midfield. Therefore, drafting talls was the go. That said, I'm not sold on BP drafting at all. Meanwhile, Craig Cameron couldn't have done a worse job as recruiting manager. I still find it staggering that he has such a top reputation.

[dee-luded 2,959]

At that stage, it seemed if the midfield had no one to kick to there'd be no point in a midfield. Therefore, drafting talls was the go. That said, I'm not sold on BP drafting at all. Meanwhile, Craig Cameron couldn't have done a worse job as recruiting manager. I still find it staggering that he has such a top reputation.

It's not BP's fault & he did draft talented footy players to us. But they went predominantly for run, & class... choir boys, white collar types. Instead of the private schooled 'Blue Collar', hard ass types perhaps?

Work hard play hard types, shift mountains by their hands. Others wish it away.

[Adam The God 30,403]

This prob needs a separate thread but was thinking bout how we need to change the list for next year and obviously we need to wait till more of the season as elapsed, but for mine, we need to make at least 9-10 list changes

In - Viney, compo picks x 2 ( should be outside/inside mids - would love Lachy Whitfield but we would need to finish last , possibly jimmy toumpas from SA, Nick Vlastuin from northern nights or even Jonathan O'Rourke from the Calder Cannons) , 2nd round draft pick - small forward quick and loves to tackle (maybe a shannon taylor type from WA) , 3rd round pick , 4th round pick , 1-2 smart trades to fill a need , 2 new rookies to replace Evans and Lawrence perhaps ?

Out : Macdonald , Green ( he is past it !) , davey , Dunn , Bennell , maybe jetta , Evans , Lawrence and I would possibly would trade 2 of either moloney, jamar and Rivers

What does everyone think , it may result in some more pain but we need to have a semi rebuild !

I'd agree on most of the outs to be honest. I'd also look to trade, but I'd doubt you'd get much for the aforementioned players. Even though Jamar was horrid week one, he was decent in the ruck yesterday. We don't seem to have enough rucking depth (due to injuries mostly) to cover a trade for him, unless of course we traded like for like, which I can't really envisage happening.

The more I think about it, the more I think we should be spending big on a 24-25 year old midfield gun that we can solidify a midfield around, much like Carlton did with Judd. Of course, easier said than done, but I think our back-half lacks confidence and will be alright if they get their heads in the right place. The forward-line will be alright with Clark, Watts, Jurrah and say a Tapscott (note Gerard Healy's apt assessment of Watts yesterday - Riewoldt was playing on a wing at the same stage in his development).

If Magner can continue his form, he looks like a Brad Sewell-esque clearance specialist (that can perform on any ground - unlike say a Moloney). I'd love to see Couch get some gametime next week. All of a sudden, throw Trengove, Grimes (with match fitness) and a speedy outside mid with slick skills and you start to have the bones of a good midfield.

At this stage our effort is not there and we lack inspiration. There is and has been a dreadful culture within the MFC for many years that must be eradicated, within the next two years, otherwise we haven't a chance in hell of winning a flag.

It's not all doom and gloom, but there's no doubting we need wholesale changes come years end.

[monoccular 17,572]

Agree with this the list was that bad the rebuild was not the 3 to 5 year rebuild of other clubs. We were more on par with the Carlton of 2001/2 and a rebuild taking 8 or so years

I guess that's fair -- but at least the CheaterFC had the pleasure of one albeit very tainted premiership in the previous one decade (not 5)!

[monoccular 17,572]

Hers a goody, >

This is not about facial hair or suits worn, it's about tough footballers being allowed to be themselves & being proud of who they are & growing to be...

Not about orders from HO to get a shave. And to speak like a politician dork.

Sorry, I don't quite get the gist of those photos of Scarlett and Franklin. Is someone suggesting that we should have recruited them? How? Did we pass them by? News?

[Range Rover 1,935]

ATTN: Neeldy

Please delist - Bartram Bennell Davey Dunn Fitzpatrick Green Jetta MacDonald Morton Petterd Rivers and Spencer (12 players)

Replace them with - Viney, best 2 available mids, 5 mature age Magner-like guns who never got a shot and have had to watch the above mentioned pick up paychecks for doing next to nothing the past 3 years. The other 4 players can be youngsters with body types that will suit the rigours of AFL footy (12 players)

Also ... trade either or both of Sylvia and Moloney if it will help balance the list.

Cheers.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Range Rover

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

And to those who say our recruiting's been first class, but our ability to develop players has been ordinary - well, if that's the case, why would you recruit some many "project" players with high draft picks and not recruit the kids who already look out of the box at age 18 (eg, Cook over Darling).

Cook may very well be a good player - but, on any construction, he was a slightly risky project player at that pick - not exactly a percentage play for a club in our situation.

Who exactly has been saying our recruiters have been first class. I dont think anyone I can recall has been sayin that.

And any tall player is a "project". They dont plug in a play. Darling is 191cm and plays a flank as a 4th tall along side Cox, Lynch and Kennedy. And given there were personal off field issues with Darling. He did come with a level of risk.

But as a self promoting recruiter I bet you know all that and more.

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

Who exactly has been saying our recruiters have been first class. I dont think anyone I can recall has been sayin that.

And any tall player is a "project". They dont plug in a play. Darling is 191cm and plays a flank as a 4th tall along side Cox, Lynch and Kennedy. And given there were personal off field issues with Darling. He did come with a level of risk.

But as a self promoting recruiter I bet you know all that and more.

What infact were the off field personal issues that were such a risk? Since being recruited he has been as quiet as $cully's knee injury.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Sorry, I don't quite get the gist of those photos of Scarlett and Franklin. Is someone suggesting that we should have recruited them? How? Did we pass them by? News?

Shaved head beard Ink all over the arms... These things have been frowned upon at Melbourne generally, for decades. getting a bit better lately, but we still look for the Choir boys way too much.

We need to go after more hard headed types, like these untamed Stallions of the AFL...

Stop going after the mortonesque, The Bennell types.

[Fork 'em 6,990]

I posted this in another thread.

Relevant here .

"Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something deep inside them- a desire, a dream, a vision."- Muhammad Ali

Our problem isn't development , it's recruiting.

[titan_uranus 25,042]

I posted this in another thread.

Relevant here .

"Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something deep inside them- a desire, a dream, a vision."- Muhammad Ali

Our problem isn't development , it's recruiting.

Your point is valid, in that we have drafted soft players like Morton, Bennell and Blease.

However, explain to me how this is the recruiters' fault. If it was obvious (or even knowable at all) that these players wouldn't have the required work ethic, hunger, strength, desire or whatever that intangible quality is, why wasn't there some sort of uproar or at least questioning of our choices?

Simply put, there isn't any way our recruiters can look into the future. We did the best we could do with the common knowledge that was available to recruiters back in the years we drafted these players. It's severely frustrating that we've ended up with a bunch of players who don't come across as having that unyielding work ethic, but I still maintain that it's too easy to just dump that on the recruiters.

[Biffen 12,944]

There are an amazingly large amount of champions that didn't start playing good football until they were 25 or so .

Instant success is a bit like instant coffee-hardly worth the wait.