Dennis Cometti sticks the boot in

[daisycutter 28,549]

I thought Confucious say man with chips on both shoulders is messy eater...

yes rpfc he said many things

the one you remember was in reference to fat fil foo i think

[Guest Dr Who]

deep stuff guys - you "represent" this place well. Last I looked it was a football forum - but go ahead you got to get your waffle count up some how.

luv reading your stuff plastered all over this forum - its music to my ears & ammunition against your cause. hehehehehe

bye for now

Edited April 10, 2012 by Dr Who

[greenmachine 21]

it did hurt but hey what can you do

[daisycutter 28,549]

deep stuff guys - you "represent" this place well. Last I looked it was a football forum - but go ahead you got to get your waffle count up some how.

luv reading your stuff plastered all over this forum - its music to my ears & ammunition against your cause. hehehehehe

bye for now

Is that a core promise?

[rpfc 27,476]

bye for now

Now that's something to campaign on!

[Demon SeaMan 108]

I could be mistaken but west coast eagles team that finished bottom 2 yrs ago has not changed much, so why the relative success since then? It's not Drago style fitness training indifferent to all other teams or an administration that would make Apple look like Energy Watch it's purely that they have the likes of Kerr, Cox on the park that know how to win and have won flags already, demanding plays on the park. Off field we now have almost the best managers coaching & development , but what we don't have is General style players that militarize performances on the field and demand accountability while playing their gun best!! I still maintain it was too early to give Trengove/ Grimes stripes as until these boys taste success these guys are getting smashed as a result of not being adaptable to losing in Jnr competition. I believe the talent is there and I truly believe it's not far away, if you recall before Geelong success starting in 2007 they were up & down like a honeymooners blouse but when the success came in .... Look at it breed success , the young players they blood .. It's all bout evolution these days, gone are the days of just landing 3 marquee players who have had finals success, who can find them and at what price, it's starts now and the future as far as I see and give or take some veterans who'll be better suited playing at other clubs is where I see Neeld heading end of yr! If we snag 8-10 wins this yr then it's a start , hopefully the 1st being Saturday

[Guest Dr Who]

I could be mistaken but west coast eagles team that finished bottom 2 yrs ago has not changed much, so why the relative success since then? It's not Drago style fitness training indifferent to all other teams or an administration that would make Apple look like Energy Watch it's purely that they have the likes of Kerr, Cox on the park that know how to win and have won flags already, demanding plays on the park. Off field we now have almost the best managers coaching & development , but what we don't have is General style players that militarize performances on the field and demand accountability while playing their gun best!! I still maintain it was too early to give Trengove/ Grimes stripes as until these boys taste success these guys are getting smashed as a result of not being adaptable to losing in Jnr competition. I believe the talent is there and I truly believe it's not far away, if you recall before Geelong success starting in 2007 they were up & down like a honeymooners blouse but when the success came in .... Look at it breed success , the young players they blood .. It's all bout evolution these days, gone are the days of just landing 3 marquee players who have had finals success, who can find them and at what price, it's starts now and the future as far as I see and give or take some veterans who'll be better suited playing at other clubs is where I see Neeld heading end of yr! If we snag 8-10 wins this yr then it's a start , hopefully the 1st being Saturday

Yeah are you sure its got nothing to do with the $16-18 million they (Eagles supporters) have been chipping into their football department for that last 5-6 years.

Money breeds success in AFL football. If you think its anything else good luck to you.

[Return to Glory 7,728]

If you've seen the Dennis Cometti pre game and his i tune ad it's fair to say he really is genuinely unfunny

[dpositive 1,547]

Yeah are you sure its got nothing to do with the $16-18 million they (Eagles supporters) have been chipping into their football department for that last 5-6 years.

Money breeds success in AFL football. If you think its anything else good luck to you.

I have said it before and will say it again

It aint just the $$$

As a retired qualified Human Resources proffessional I can assure you that research at every organisational level and over any period of time show that $$ is not the greatest motivator or indicator of success.

It is a significant factor if well targetted and provided it supports the employee (player ) needs.

Interestingly autonomy is always well up in most reports (with Stability and Security). How this translates into a Footy coaches demand for structure and adherence to rules may explain some of the apparent performance variances at the moment.

I see Neeld as an intelligent man surrounded by a group of similar intelligent people and I am sure Craig has a far deeper understanding of Footy club culture and individual performance factors than I do so I am waiting for the improvements.

I only hope that the improvement does not require wholsale changes as history shows and the existing AFL oversight structures make this unlikely to happen.

We do have plenty to look forward to as we have acheived some progress with our draft levels picks and I think reinforcing with Clarke etc has added to the mix that the coach/es are looking for.

All teams in the AFL are in the same system and have to manage the system to achieve the results,

Grand final success is obviously an intricate target or there would not be any variation in the winner. Dont get me started on the luck/ umpiring/ Chaos theories.

Footy is fantastic. Melbourne provides fantastic stimulation, I am obsessively passionate and I hope for some success to top off my joy

GO DEES

[Guest Dr Who]

As a retired qualified Human Resources proffessional I can assure you that research at every organisational level and over any period of time show that $$ is not the greatest motivator or indicator of success.

AFL footballers have a very limited time in the game, the money is not solely used to motivate. The money is spent to allow them to reach peak performance - you will find most professional athletes irrespective of the sport have this common goal - a burning, burning desire to reach MAXIMUM output.

How do we know this - we ask them! If a kid ever says - oh no I'm happy just to be average - we instantly pass.

It is a significant factor if well targetted and provided it supports the employee (player ) needs.

This is where you need the money. Best facilities, quality fitness regime, injury recover (essential) - its essential in modern day football

All teams in the AFL are in the same system and have to manage the system to achieve the results,

Yip but the playing field is not level.

Hope that clears it up for you - its money invested into the players ie FOOTBALL DEPARTMENTS - not money given too the players. (thats a different debate)

Edited April 14, 2012 by Dr Who

[Hannibal 5,814]

Hoo argues that draft picks have nothing to do with anything. I argue that draft picks/recruiting hold the same value.

The best 3 players on the ground last night were Murphy, Gibbs, and Judd. Two former number ones and a former pick 3. Coincidence I suppose.

[Guest Dr Who]

Some would argue its the $$$$$ you invest into those draft picks - I've said it before & I will say it again.

High Draft picks plus huge footy department spends = A grade player (deep pockets theory)

Think I've also said its not just recruiting you need a win at the TRADE table - do you mind if I ask how they got Judd.

Do you think Murphy & Gibbs would be such good players without Judd. Dont take my word ask them ie Murphy & Gibbs.

PS I thought Scotland was pretty good last night as well - wonder how Carlton got him. Henderson held their backline together well and shut down Collinwoods talls - wonder how they got him?

Edited April 14, 2012 by Dr Who

[dpositive 1,547]

Thanks Dr Who

It seems we do agree as I indicated targetted spend that supports is one of the most important aspects to work performance and outcomes. The other more intangible aspects are usually not $ related at all and I would imagine that in entertainment and sport the audience response (support) can probably have an even greater impact.

So I am hoping that we can get that desire to perform impressed into the talented kids that we have and we might get some success. Others have pointed out that the game is played between the ears and I dont envy the coaches in trying to work on that part of our players to get that success.

[stormndemon 1]

Trengove Grimes Watts Frawley Garland Clark Sylvia Jurrah Gysberts Bail Magner

Morton Blease Jamar Petterd Jones Howe Martin Mckenzie Strauss Tapscott Bartram

Throw in Viney and another quality mid in next years super draft stir in some good

Coaching and we still have the makings of a top 4 side

Well at least I think we do

What r u smokin? - next years super draft stir in some good coaching - can't see this happening - after 4 months + of Neeld!

[Hannibal 5,814]

Some would argue its the $$$$$ you invest into those draft picks - I've said it before & I will say it again.

I don't think I've seen anyone argue otherwise. Development dollars and footy department spend are critical.

You're the one that has watered down the importance of early draft picks and the ability to recruit well. You're wrong. I made the point to you that some recruiters rule a line through players because they spend too much time analysing their weaknesses and not correctly scrutinising how their strengths will translate to AFL level. The ability to recruit well is critically important. As is development.

[Guest Dr Who]

I don't think I've seen anyone argue otherwise. Development dollars and footy department spend are critical.

You're the one that has watered down the importance of early draft picks and the ability to recruit well. You're wrong. I made the point to you that some recruiters rule a line through players because they spend too much time analysing their weaknesses and not correctly scrutinising how their strengths will translate to AFL level. The ability to recruit well is critically important. As is development.

Nope you miss the point again. The "names" are irrelevant if your not spending the money to develop them. Its not the "pick" that counts. Early picks turn into A - graders when you spend the $$$$$$. You and others are "arguing" - oh if we picked this player over that player it would ALL be different. I'm saying thats not what the research, facts & results prove.

I will sadly say it again -

You dont recruit ie (taking young kids) your way to success - you develop your way to success.

Draft pick equalisation is a myth - give high draft picks to poor developing clubs vs poor draft picks to big pending developing sides. The big spenders win.

However, give high draft picks to high spenders - THEN you are talking then you get A graders.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Dr Who

[Hannibal 5,814]

The "names" are irrelevant if your (sic) not spending the money to develop them. Its not the "pick" that counts.

You're talking sh*t. There's a reason that early picks are far more successful than later ones. And they all have the same amount of money spent on them. The dollars are important and so are the picks.

[Guest Dr Who]

You're talking sh*t. There's a reason that early picks are far more successful than later ones. And they all have the same amount of money spent on them. The dollars are important and so are the picks.

Rubbish - absolute rubbish. You clearly miss the point. Name names. Clubs all dont spend the same amount of money - some clubs spend more money than others.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Dr Who

[Hannibal 5,814]

Rubbish - absolute rubbish. You clearly miss the point. Name names. Clubs all dont spend the same amount of money - some clubs spend more money than others.

Your cognitive skills are at an all time low. Try re-reading what I wrote.

I'm not suggesting that all clubs spend the same amount of money, which is what you thought I meant; I inferred that the players at each club have the same amount of money spent on them. Players at West Coast have the same dollars invested in them as other players at West Coast. Tom Swift has had the same amount of money spent on him and the same development programs as Luke Shuey, but clearly one is better than the other, despite the fact that one was pick 18 and the other pick 20 in the same draft. Ultimately, one of those players was a good pick and the other wasn't, despite the $$$$$$ (terminology you'll understand) invested. That said, there's overwhelming evidence that first round draft picks have greater success in the AFL system than later picks. Clearly talent levels in the draft vary. By your assessment "the picks don't count", when clearly the evidence doesn't support that assertion. Which is why I highlighted the best 3 players for Carlton on the weekend were two former pick ones and a pick three. Top 5 draft picks are gold.

You'll get some picks right and some wrong, as evidenced by Shuey and Swift, but the ability to identify how talent will translate to AFL level is crucially important.

Dollars, development and picking the right players is pivotal to success. But I'm not sure the penny will drop for you.

[Guest Dr Who]

Your cognitive skills are at an all time low. Try re-reading what I wrote.

I'm not suggesting that all clubs spend the same amount of money, which is what you thought I meant; I inferred that the players at each club have the same amount of money spent on them. Players at West Coast have the same dollars invested in them as other players at West Coast. Tom Swift has had the same amount of money spent on him and the same development programs as Luke Shuey, but clearly one is better than the other, despite the fact that one was pick 18 and the other pick 20 in the same draft. Ultimately, one of those players was a good pick and the other wasn't, despite the $$$$$$ (terminology you'll understand) invested. That said, there's overwhelming evidence that first round draft picks have greater success in the AFL system than later picks. Clearly talent levels in the draft vary. By your assessment "the picks don't count", when clearly the evidence doesn't support that assertion. Which is why I highlighted the best 3 players for Carlton on the weekend were two former pick ones and a pick three. Top 5 draft picks are gold.

You'll get some picks right and some wrong, as evidenced by Shuey and Swift, but the ability to identify how talent will translate to AFL level is crucially important.

Dollars, development and picking the right players is pivotal to success. But I'm not sure the penny will drop for you.

Thanks for the personal attack - fully expected

Interesting the two teams you quote are both big spenders in the league Carlton & West Coast - thats exactly my point - but you miss it ever time.

You continually say stupid things like "Top 5 draft picks are gold" - absolute rubbish in the hands of a poor low spending developing clubs.

"Dollars, development and picking the right players is pivotal to success." - again you miss the point.

Maybe its you the penny will drop for - but I doubt it

[Hannibal 5,814]

Thanks for the personal attack - fully expected

Interesting the two teams you quote are both big spenders in the league Carlton & West Coast - thats exactly my point - but you miss it ever time.

You continually say stupid things like "Top 5 draft picks are gold" - absolute rubbish in the hands of a poor low spending developing clubs.

"Dollars, development and picking the right players is pivotal to success." - again you miss the point.

Maybe its you the penny will drop for - but I doubt it

I'll let others decide, Champ.

[Guest Dr Who]

I'll let others decide, Champ.

And I will let results decide - thanks for the discussion.

You focus on your "Top 5 draft picks are gold" theory - I will focus on $$$$$ invested into developing your whole list theory.

You keep supporting Denis and his simplistic, cheap argument "oh we got it wrong - we should have taken player x instead of y" - after the fact mumbo jumbo - clear ignorance of how the system works. A complete over emphasis on early draft picks - sucked in by the media to sell newspapers.

But I will concede if there was anywhere we "failed to kick goals" was at the Trade Table - but that was somewhat out of our hands.

I will also repeat - because you continually miss it - sadly like a broken record

You dont recruit ie (taking young kids) your way to success - you develop your way to success.

High Draft picks plus huge footy department spends = A grade player (deep pockets theory)

Cheers

[jackaub 1,402]

There is always an element of luck in picking players. Until Cotchin and Dustin Martin everyone was saying how terrible Richmond's recruiting has been.

Personally, I think out midfield has never recovered from losing Scotty Thompson.

He looks to me like another Travis Johnstone - 'potential' and 'talent' mean sweat FA if they never develop into hard working players. Melbourne has been great at holding on to some pretty ordinary players - Brad Miller was a fine example (his break out game was 'just around the corner' but it never came.) Whereas I always thought that Ferguson was shown the door too early.

And Kyle Cheny

[Hannibal 5,814]

You dont recruit ie (taking young kids) your way to success - you develop your way to success.

High Draft picks plus huge footy department spends = A grade player (deep pockets theory)

Cheers

Do you have Aspergers ?

No-one has argued against development. In fact, it's been acknowledged as crucial. Do you understand ? Development dollars are crucial. Hear that ? Development dollars are crucial. Did you get that ?

It's just as clear as your lack of understanding of recruiting. To think that you genuinely believe that A grade players are merely so because of footy department spends ? I'm arguing with a simpleton. Some are and some aren't. Plenty would be A graders in any era fool.

And who TF is Dennis ? Forget it. You've wasted enough of my time.

[Guest Dr Who]

Do you have Aspergers ?

No-one has argued against development. In fact, it's been acknowledged as crucial. Do you understand ? Development dollars are crucial. Hear that ? Development dollars are crucial. Did you get that ?

It's just as clear as your lack of understanding of recruiting. To think that you genuinely believe that A grade players are merely so because of footy department spends ? I'm arguing with a simpleton. Some are and some aren't. Plenty would be A graders in any era fool.

And who TF is Dennis ? Forget it. You've wasted enough of my time.

hahahaha - massive fail AGAIN.

Your words - "And who TF is Dennis ?" Look at the title of the thread - hahahahahaha LMAO - IT proves 100% you dont read the thread - you just are talking "emotive" rubbish.

READ THE THREAD - you fool.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Dr Who