I believe that are 'recruitment' looks worse because the kids are being exposed by the non-existence of the senior players.

They have to do more than kids at other teams, and when they don't - we rail on them.

We are deep within a false economy here and the only remedy is time, or an aggressive FA period.

And for OD who is thinking "rpfc, what if those kids never make it?"

What else can we do than continue forward? We can't make wholesale changes, we have to develop what we have - that's why Neeld, Craig, and Misson get paid the big bucks.

  On 01/04/2012 at 23:25, pitchfork said:

Shoot me for having a divergent opinion, but. Citing the recruiters as the key to our failure is just plain wrong. Melbourne is not an environment of success. I actually think the recruiting has been good...The football department has been mediocre, and accepting of less than excellence for too long. Put White, Yze, Chippa, Grimes, Jurrah (maybe) in Geelong, Sydney, Cwood jumpers and I truly believe they are perennial all-australians.

The hyperbole emanating from the round 1 loss is ridiculous. Neeld is installing a culture of excellence...it won't happen in the space of one game, but give him at least some time. Less blame on the players, patience with those who are rebooting what is there now, and let's damn those (particular the individuals who thought it wise to drop the 'demons' moniker) who deserve it

If we had been playing Hawthorn, WCE, Collingwood, Geelong, Carlton, Freemantle or Adelaide I would agree with you.

But it was Brisbane for Gods sake we made them look like world beaters.

When will you understand we have a very average team

God helps us next Saturday.

PS Bang

I totally agree with rfpc & old dee about the senior players not doing well enough, but also think the recruiters went for too many skinny players which is the fault of the recruiters, not those fine lighter players who didn't ask to be recruited into a light team. Cheers

  On 01/04/2012 at 23:30, rpfc said:

I believe that are 'recruitment' looks worse because the kids are being exposed by the non-existence of the senior players.

They have to do more than kids at other teams, and when they don't - we rail on them.

We are deep within a false economy here and the only remedy is time, or an aggressive FA period.

And for OD who is thinking "rpfc, what if those kids never make it?"

What else can we do than continue forward? We can't make wholesale changes, we have to develop what we have - that's why Neeld, Craig, and Misson get paid the big bucks.

I agree total rpfc and that is what is really worrying me.

We have what we have for better or worse

If the kids do not turn out wonderfully the MFC is in dire straits.

The GCS and GWS are going to get all the assistance over the next ten years.

  On 01/04/2012 at 08:46, Jackie said:

I suspect they got all their recruiting tips by reading the Hun and the Age with a cup of coffee whilst doing bugger all else in their office.

I wish they did. At least we'd then have Shuey, Zaharakis, Darling and we would have, at the very minimum, interviewed Dustin Martin.

  On 02/04/2012 at 00:00, Ron Burgundy said:

I wish they did. At least we'd then have Shuey, Zaharakis, Darling and we would have, at the very minimum, interviewed Dustin Martin.

there's a chance we might have taken moribito

  On 01/04/2012 at 22:34, Forest Demon said:

I am on board with the 'it's not so much the recruitment as the culture and development' crew.

This comment deserves a thread of its own. But sadly we would be wasting our time around here. Many many MFC "supporters" just dont get it.

  On 01/04/2012 at 22:34, Forest Demon said:

I am on board with the 'it's not so much the recruitment as the culture and development' crew. In saying that it is clear the style of players we generally drafted under Bailey when we were bottoming out are not suited to the contested style of footy Mark Neeld wants us playing.

This,

Another 3-4 years out of finals contention imo.

  On 01/04/2012 at 23:37, Rob Mac...... said:

I totally agree with rfpc & old dee about the senior players not doing well enough, but also think the recruiters went for too many skinny players which is the fault of the recruiters, not those fine lighter players who didn't ask to be recruited into a light team. Cheers

Are you serious? 90% of kids are skinny.

Just because someone is a manchild does not mean they are the best choice.

Tapscott was built like a man at 16, but he hasn't exactly taken the AFL by storm.

Since 2007 it should have been obvious to all and sundry that we would not be able to compete until the gun kids we had were the senior players in the team, and the old guard was well & truly into retirement.

Davey, Green, Rivers et al have never been good enough to lead a team on their own.

They were very handy complimentary players, and nothing more.

Now and for the last few years they are exposed by their inability to be main driving force.

Hence we have 20 and 22 year old co-captains.

  On 02/04/2012 at 00:40, Arsene Wenger said:

Are you serious? 90% of kids are skinny.

Since 2007 it should have been obvious to all and sundry that we would not be able to compete until the gun kids we had were the senior players in the team, and the old guard was well & truly into retirement.

Which, in this day & age of players changing clubs frequently was all the more reason to recruit more ready made players than skinny kids that might be great 5 years later, in time to be bought by another club.

I know kids are skinny, but we recruited talented, but lighter weight than usual for years. Last year our heaviest regular KPP was Frawley at 93kg.

..& of course the lack of leadership you mentioned & development has been a huge problem too. Cheers

  On 02/04/2012 at 01:36, Rob Mac...... said:

Which, in this day & age of players changing clubs frequently was all the more reason to recruit more ready made players than skinny kids that might be great 5 years later, in time to be bought by another club.

I know kids are skinny, but we recruited talented, but lighter weight than usual for years. Last year our heaviest regular KPP was Frawley at 93kg.

..& of course the lack of leadership you mentioned & development has been a huge problem too. Cheers

That would have been preferrable, but we were in the unfortunate position of not being able to attract any top line trade targets.

We're much better off with the draft picks, instead of mortgaging our future for NQR mature bodied players.

Sure Sydney did it well, but we could have ended up like St Kilda - no decent youth to speak of after years of bringing in:

Michael Gardiner, Charlie Gardiner, Aaron Fiora, Cain Ackland, Mark McGough, Adam Pattison, Fergus Watts, Shane Birss, Adam Schneider, Sean Dempster, Steven King, Farren Ray, Colm Begley, Zac Dawson, Andrew Lovett, Brett Peake, Jesse Smith, Ryan Gamble, Dean Polo.

Once their current guns retire or leave, there will be a steep drop off.

  On 02/04/2012 at 02:00, Arsene Wenger said:

That would have been preferrable, but we were in the unfortunate position of not being able to attract any top line trade targets.

We're much better off with the draft picks, instead of mortgaging our future for NQR mature bodied players.

Sure Sydney did it well, but we could have ended up like St Kilda - no decent youth to speak of after years of bringing in:

Michael Gardiner, Charlie Gardiner, Aaron Fiora, Cain Ackland, Mark McGough, Adam Pattison, Fergus Watts, Shane Birss, Adam Schneider, Sean Dempster, Steven King, Farren Ray, Colm Begley, Zac Dawson, Andrew Lovett, Brett Peake, Jesse Smith, Ryan Gamble, Dean Polo.

Once their current guns retire or leave, there will be a steep drop off.

Seriously, are we any better off than the Saints right now??

From the game i watched on saturday we are so far behind the comp, i know what you mean about st. kilda but we have had the draft picks and we did not choose well. Within the mix of kids i would always recruit big mature players as well for protection and experience.

Dave Misson has a full time job. He is looking forward to it i read.

I don't thing our drafting has been that bad, the issue lies more with getting our picks playing to there potential. There has been a few reason why this hasn't happened but mainly through injury. Morton, Grimes, Strauss, Blease, Tapscott, Gysberts, Jetta and even Cook have all had injury concerns. Scully and Trengove were always going 1 and 2 so there was no reason to interview Martin. Watts is still only 21 years old he is 2-3 years away from being strong enough to dominate a key role.

2010 draft we went after a requirement rather than best available with our first pick, Cook is a mile off AFL football, but our late picks in McDonald and Davis look OK

We need to keep Grimes, Gysberts, Tapscott, Strauss, Blease and even Morton fit they all will get better if they can keep their body's right.

  On 02/04/2012 at 02:12, drdrake said:

I don't thing our drafting has been that bad, the issue lies more with getting our picks playing to there potential. There has been a few reason why this hasn't happened but mainly through injury. Morton, Grimes, Strauss, Blease, Tapscott, Gysberts, Jetta and even Cook have all had injury concerns. Scully and Trengove were always going 1 and 2 so there was no reason to interview Martin. Watts is still only 21 years old he is 2-3 years away from being strong enough to dominate a key role.

2010 draft we went after a requirement rather than best available with our first pick, Cook is a mile off AFL football, but our late picks in McDonald and Davis look OK

We need to keep Grimes, Gysberts, Tapscott, Strauss, Blease and even Morton fit they all will get better if they can keep their body's right.

I do hope you are right Dr. I am not as optimistic right now.

Perhaps in hindsight we should have hired Sheedy to coach? A nutt case but I'm sure Green, Davey and Co and the other softies would have got the message before it was too late and perhaps more astute draft choices.

  On 01/04/2012 at 13:43, Dr. Gonzo said:

The thing is Bailey was seen as a good teacher and development coach so what does that tell you? I don't know but it is truly laughable and for what its worth I agree 100%. It can't ALL come down to drafting especially when we have had so many good picks.

Bailey was teaching us to play a run & carry offensive gamestyle. Tough to play & do without starting from scratch without top quality leaders & footballers onfield. You are still required to head down win the footy & extract it out to the runners.

Now an about face & we have to teach these 'Outside types' to earn their kicks... A big change. and meanwhile the senior career players are tiring of wasting their careers with ever changing tactics & personnel thru these ongoing gamestyle changes.

We all have to take a collective deep breath, realise the list isn't at all bad but needs to learn which gamestyle to play & then learn it. Thru continuity we'll grow together, or divide us & conquer us if were Un United....

  On 02/04/2012 at 02:23, Jackie said:

Perhaps in hindsight we should have hired Sheedy to coach? A nutt case but I'm sure Green, Davey and Co and the other softies would have got the message before it was too late and perhaps more astute draft choices.

Could he have produced less than DB?

I doubt it

And it would have been far more entertaining over the trip.

  On 02/04/2012 at 02:11, why you little said:

Seriously, are we any better off than the Saints right now??

From the game i watched on saturday we are so far behind the comp, i know what you mean about st. kilda but we have had the draft picks and we did not choose well. Within the mix of kids i would always recruit big mature players as well for protection and experience.

Dave Misson has a full time job. He is looking forward to it i read.

Don't be disingenuous.

We don't have a bevy of stars to prop up the NQR senior players.

St Kilda have had, and still do for the time being.

  On 02/04/2012 at 02:16, why you little said:

I do hope you are right Dr. I am not as optimistic right now.

Look at the weekend since 2007 -2010 we have had 11 first round and priority picks, 2 are no longer with the club, for 1 we have 2 first round picks in 2012. On Saturday we had 4 of the remaining 9 playing, the 5 that missed are coming back of injury, Gysberts is the only one that had nearly a full pre-season.

  On 01/04/2012 at 23:06, rpfc said:

Does anyone here really think our drafting from 2007 onwards is the reason we are in the predicament? We have been here since 2007...

The senior players weak minds and average talent are the reasons we are where we are.

You are pushed forward on the back of your 25+ brigade and ours are 1) not plentiful, 2) not good enough, and 3) weak in the head.

So stop blaming Cook for something he has nothing to do with.

Firstly no one is blaming Cook - as was said earlier it is about balance - Cook on his own is not the problem but taking our recruiting as a whole it seems we have too many of the same type of players on our list - too many HFF who can't do much damage in the middle (Dunn, Bate, Petterd, Howe, Jurrah) too many skinny KPP (Watts, Cook, Fitzpatrick) too many skinny midfielders/HBF (Morton, Grimes, Gysberts, Blease, Strauss, Bennell).

I agree though it is not merely the recruiting which is our problem, this is a legacy that we are still dealing with from the Daniher years where senior players were given games on reputation instead of having to earn it and weren't punished for being selfish front-runners (e.g. Yze, White, Johnstone, Robertson, Bruce) - this has gotten us where we are now where the senior group having been getting games on reputation and can't lead the younger players and show them how to play committed team-oriented football.

  On 02/04/2012 at 02:33, old dee said:

Could he have produced less than DB?

I doubt it

And it would have been far more entertaining over the trip.

Might make an entertaining thread. I'll get it up.

what p!sses me off is that we seem to have recruited a bunch of skinny kids with good character from nice neighbourhoods instead of the best availablee players in the draft. we kept hearing the concerns about player personalities and so forth, being a problem for the MFC. Personally, i don't give a sh!t about player personalities or whether the player is going to impress the Coterie down at teh Melbourne Club...

  On 02/04/2012 at 02:38, Dr. Gonzo said:

Firstly no one is blaming Cook - as was said earlier it is about balance - Cook on his own is not the problem but taking our recruiting as a whole it seems we have too many of the same type of players on our list - too many HFF who can't do much damage in the middle (Dunn, Bate, Petterd, Howe, Jurrah) too many skinny KPP (Watts, Cook, Fitzpatrick) too many skinny midfielders/HBF (Morton, Grimes, Gysberts, Blease, Strauss, Bennell).

I agree though it is not merely the recruiting which is our problem, this is a legacy that we are still dealing with from the Daniher years where senior players were given games on reputation instead of having to earn it and weren't punished for being selfish front-runners (e.g. Yze, White, Johnstone, Robertson, Bruce) - this has gotten us where we are now where the senior group having been getting games on reputation and can't lead the younger players and show them how to play committed team-oriented football.

Of course, no-one is blaming Cook, only his existence on the list. Flippant but true.

And I believe that our recent recruiting isn't the cause of our current predicament at all. Not one iota.

Look back at the drafts from 2001-2005 for our predicament, or maybe it is the poor player development?

But we are not shite because of the kids we have now.

  On 02/04/2012 at 02:33, Arsene Wenger said:

Don't be disingenuous.

We don't have a bevy of stars to prop up the NQR senior players.

St Kilda have had, and still do for the time being.

No we do not have the stars, which is exactly why we should have upped the quota of experienced players. So many of our draft picks are still in kindergarten.

Can the club afford another 5 years of rubbish onfield?

No it cannot. You watch GW$ & GC $un$ will overtake us and people will bring up excuses for it.

And I asked all the geniuses who keep looking in the rear vision mirror on recruiting to talk about who we "should have taken" at last years draft and besides one well considered response there was dead silence.

The whole Scully/Trengove and we should have interviewed Martin is such a nonsense. I am going to interview Bob Katter before the next election before deciding between Julia and Tony.( if we draft any of those three I will be mightily disappointed).

Not one recruiter in the land would have taken Martin before those two so I wish everyone would stop harping on this.

Happy to concede on Darling over Cook if thats how it turns out yet I want to wait until Cook is out of nappies before making a call on him.

We can bang on about Watts and Niknat as this was a real choice we had to make and if Niknat turns out to be a champion and Watts not then happy to say our recruiters got it wrong - but give it a rest on Martin. All the keyboard genius's who thought we should have taken Martin show me the money ( and dont give me the palookah " thats what recruiters are paid the big money for")