MFC - Where are we honestly at

[Hells Gates 505]

Where you at the game?

Yeah mate and you?

[Striker475 696]

I agree and I am fully aware of your post. However have we drafted the cattle?? And have we got the foot skills to succeed? Is where Im trying to go.

Honestly? It's too bloody soon to tell.

Look at Geelong - they drafted big around 2001. Struggled and didn't hit their real stride until 2007.

St Kilda - similar pattern.

Hawthorn - similar pattern.

We have pretty much as far to go as the Saints did, if not further.

We've had the setback too - HWFUA has meant that the rebuild itself drops back a couple of years, which I don't believe is a bad thing. I firmly am of the view that our window will be open around 2016 - by that point, JT, Watts and the class of '08-'09 will be approaching 100-150 games, our 23-24 year olds (Frawley, Garland, Jones) will be in that 150-200 game bracket and our younger ones (Stretch, Viney, compo picks, Cook) will be really priming up.

The problem with our cattle is that it is either of the maturing type (Watts, Cook, Fitz, Gawn, Davis) or has been struck down by ailments (Gysberts, Tapscott, Strauss, Blease, Jetta). The former we did know about; the latter we have been unlucky to a significant degree.

We need more time. We do. The skills are there. Watts is as silky as they come, as is Trengove. Tapscott's booming punts are a joy. Strauss is a forgotten man among us right now, but he was really finding his feet before the break. Blease has lit up the field a couple of times. Davis has been good during the NAB, and the whole team is getting there.

I don't want to wait any more than some of you. I've seen eleven AFL sides win flags in my life. The other five are perennial losers - Fremantle, Richmond, St Kilda, Footscray and unfortunately the MFC. We need that fact changed. I need that fact changed for my own sanity. I'm keeping the faith...I have to.

[Hells Gates 505]

Now we have to wait for 2 weeks to see what happens in Rd 1 and in the mean time have to listen to all the bs in the media about the Dees. Sick and tired of hearing it by the way. Geez its going to be a fun 2 wks. god help us all.

Thats it. The players are the only ones who can stop that though.

[dee-luded 2,959]

No where near it at this stage...might finish ahead of GWS, Gold coast and Brisbane...thats probably it.

What happened to "we will be hard to play against"...and "defence all over the ground"

SOFT AS BUTTER!!!

Ah, your not a Builder are you!

You like to buy things off the shelf?

Well, free Agency is here soon.. you can shout the club a $Mill to buy a Pendlebury... that'll help...

But with the culture, you can't buy it off the shelf,,, Because it doesn't Exist. In Real life, it is a spirit within the Club & Group & within the Supporters. The Panic that hits, hits the supporters first, & the ambi'ence spreads to the field. The Vibe grabs them.

NOW, what sort of Vibe does the Tigers have when they're UP??? Insipid, or Hungry??? and how do their players react When their supporters Growl??? do they fire up & Hunt?

What happens when the Hawks supporters start up their Excitement??? And what happens when the Hawk players turn it on, the supporters do their Bit... They Inspire one another to succeed....

What sort of vibe do the Demon faithfull carry with them??? Insipid or Aggressive??? Self Critical, or want to hunt for Blood, opposition Blood???

[Hells Gates 505]

Honestly? It's too bloody soon to tell.

Look at Geelong - they drafted big around 2001. Struggled and didn't hit their real stride until 2007.

St Kilda - similar pattern.

Hawthorn - similar pattern.

We have pretty much as far to go as the Saints did, if not further.

We've had the setback too - HWFUA has meant that the rebuild itself drops back a couple of years, which I don't believe is a bad thing. I firmly am of the view that our window will be open around 2016 - by that point, JT, Watts and the class of '08-'09 will be approaching 100-150 games, our 23-24 year olds (Frawley, Garland, Jones) will be in that 150-200 game bracket and our younger ones (Stretch, Viney, compo picks, Cook) will be really priming up.

The problem with our cattle is that it is either of the maturing type (Watts, Cook, Fitz, Gawn, Davis) or has been struck down by ailments (Gysberts, Tapscott, Strauss, Blease, Jetta). The former we did know about; the latter we have been unlucky to a significant degree.

We need more time. We do. The skills are there. Watts is as silky as they come, as is Trengove. Tapscott's booming punts are a joy. Strauss is a forgotten man among us right now, but he was really finding his feet before the break. Blease has lit up the field a couple of times. Davis has been good during the NAB, and the whole team is getting there.

I don't want to wait any more than some of you. I've seen eleven AFL sides win flags in my life. The other five are perennial losers - Fremantle, Richmond, St Kilda, Footscray and unfortunately the MFC. We need that fact changed. I need that fact changed for my own sanity. I'm keeping the faith...I have to.

Good post striker, Im keeping the faith also, Its just when I see the same things eg disposal, lack of effort it infuriates me.

My wife has told me to tell you this:

Cats:

2004 - 4th - Pre lim

2005 - 6th - Pre lim

2006 - NAB cup Premiers, 10th in the season proper.

2007 - current - speaks for itself.

She is driving me nuts so hurry up Dees!!

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yeah mate and you?

No, I wanted to know if you had something to back up your condemning of the skills.

[bush demon 1,989]

We Are at the similar position to when 'Barass' left the rebuild after all the hard work done for 5 years, and Northey took over in '86. We're at the same point as we were in 1986ish.

do you mean the re-build after barass left in '64? norm smith had a huge turn-out pre-season '66 and the hope was that the club would quickly re-generate. i wonder where my old blue radio is now? sure as hell ain't listening to that game on internet radio...

[rjay 24,577]

Where are we at as a club? Not as far advanced as we were when Neitz was playing. Somewhat ahead of where we were when we played Geelong last season. We have a new coach who has come in and said immediately that our players are too weak, not fit enough and lack proper gameplans and discipline. In this he is 100% correct and has set about correcting the deficiencies. As we all know, it will take more than a few months for the physical deficiencies in the side to be rectified, which is why we have drafted Magner, Couch and Seller, players who are better developed for the game we want to play.

We have several new players showing serious ability. Howe is probably the pick of the bunch.

We have several players who have never been able to string games together due to injuries and as such are still more or less unknown quantities.

We have several players who have underperformed in the past few seasons and need to show improvement under Neeld if they are to avoid the axe.

We have several solid B and C grade players who go about their business day in day out and will never be more than they currently are.

We have a top line Ruck and a top line Full Back.

I think that's about where we are as a team.

We have several senior players who don't have the ability to show the way to the several new players showing serious ability.

[dee-luded 2,959]

do you mean the re-build after barass left in '64? norm smith had a huge turn-out pre-season '66 and the hope was that the club would quickly re-generate. i wonder where my old blue radio is now? sure as hell ain't listening to that game on internet radio...

I think you know I mean when Barass left after 1985.

[DemonOX 8,692]

Thats it. The players are the only ones who can stop that though.

True but the way they are playing it looks like its going to be a while.

TBH am sick of all the bs, I just want to see the dees play hard and not have to make up excuses why we aint,

[leucopogon 1,517]

I'll bite, as I said in the post Port match thread: we're in another rebuild/reboot. I can't see Neeld tolerating the list clogging team of pea hearts that have been assembled in the Daniher/Bailey era so I expect they'll be cleared out progressively from the end of this season onwards. Maybe free agency will be good for us if it means we can get in ready mades easier. I'm beginning to think we were sold a bill of goods with our most recent bottoming out/rebuild using high draft picks strategy. There's just too much that can go (and has gone) wrong.

Expecting bottom 2 or 3 this year.

Edited March 16, 2012 by leucopogon

[dee-luded 2,959]

I'll bite, as I said in the post Port match thread: we're in another rebuild/reboot. I can't see Neeld tolerating the list clogging team of pea hearts that have been assembled in the Daniher/Bailey era so I expect they'll be cleared out progressively from the end of this season onwards. Maybe free agency will be good for us if it means we can get in ready mades easier. I'm beginning to think we were sold a bill of goods with our most recent bottoming out/rebuild using high draft picks strategy. There's just too much that can go wrong.

Expecting bottom 2 or 3 this year.

Yeah, but it's not as big a list as you make out.

The problem is most of our good stock is 25 years, or Younger with few games of experience.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-melbourne-demons?year=2012&sby=15

Except for 1 or 2 others who are older, & will put their head over the footy....

And many young ones, who have to go back to Mark Neelds school of Hard Knocks...

[leucopogon 1,517]

Yeah, but it's not as big a list as you make out.

The problem is most of our good stock is 25 years, or Younger with few games of experience.

http://www.footywire...ear=2012&sby=15

Except for 1 or 2 others who are older, & will put their head over the footy....

And many young ones, who have to go back to Mark Neelds school of Hard Knocks...

The sad thing is dee-luded, I can't even say with any confidence who our good stock is. Frawley, Clark, Jones, Howe and Tapscott are the only ones that really stand out for me. Maybe add Jack Trengove (but I'm far from convinced about him). Blease, Strauss, Watts, Martin, McKenzie, Bail, Morton, Grimes, Bennell, Gysberts, Jetta etc all underwhelm me either because of their inconsitencies (or deficiencies in one or more facets of their game) or bad luck with injuries.

We need to clear out our senior core, they are all duds except Jamar but what good is a million hit outs a game when we still get smashed in the clearances?

[bush demon 1,989]

I think you know I mean when Barass left after 1985.

yes i know that, i also remember successive re-builds pre-dating the messiah's return. imo there has been too much talk pre-season, not unlike the situation back in the sunny days of 1981. everything will be better in the morning. the mfc press release beckons.

[dee-luded 2,959]

yes i know that, i also remember successive re-builds pre-dating the messiah's return. imo there has been too much talk pre-season, not unlike the situation back in the sunny days of 1981. everything will be better in the morning. the mfc press release beckons.

Well it took him 5 years to excise our demons, then he stepped aside to let the side grow.

We then took off shortly after.

And we were good for about another 5 years til it was let fall away again.

[Sir Why You Little 36,587]

I hope the MFC hit rock bottom tonight. Yes it was a practise match, thankfully.

Port Adelaide are rubbish & so are we.

$cully used us as a stepping stone.

We say nothing. Eddie manipulates us last week. We say nothing.

This week we gave out Blazers & felt good.

But on the park we are a joke.

I am glad Neeld & Neil Craig have no connection to this club. They work here. For that they can say whatever they like.

The MFC deserves every word it gets right now.

I don't want to hear about history ANYMORE.

I want the future.

Our history has retarded us. The Red Fox has died. Read the book.

Rip this joint apart Neeld & Craig. You will be revered.

[DemonOX 8,692]

I hope the MFC hit rock bottom tonight. Yes it was a practise match, thankfully.

Port Adelaide are rubbish & so are we.

$cully used us as a stepping stone.

We say nothing. Eddie manipulates us last week. We say nothing.

This week we gave out Blazers & felt good.

But on the park we are a joke.

I am glad Neeld & Neil Craig have no connection to this club. They work here. For that they can say whatever they like.

The MFC deserves every word it gets right now.

I don't want to hear about history ANYMORE.

I want the future.

Our history has retarded us. The Red Fox has died. Read the book.

Rip this joint apart Neeld & Craig. You will be revered.

Agree with what you are saying WYL but i have had a gutful.

We keep waiting for change and think we are on the right track but get the same shite week in week out.

[Sir Why You Little 36,587]

Agree with what you are saying WYL but i have had a gutful.

We keep waiting for change and think we are on the right track but get the same shite week in week out.

Oh i have had a gut full to mate. Don't worry.

I am looking for answers. I have paid enough to this club to have that right.

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

The crows seem to be struggling with their new game plan...

[DemonOX 8,692]

The crows seem to be struggling with their new game plan...

classic. The worst part about that is my neighbour is a crows fan. Cannot shut him up.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Stop over-rating our list you tragics.

It's always the same [censored]. "Wait until Blease, Tapscott, Cook, Strauss, Cook etc etc etc get some experience".

They need experience with good players leading them!! Otherwise they will become nothing!

Our current crop of 25 + year olds just don't cut it and they set (and have set) a terrible example for our younger crop.

Add to that the fact that we are one of the worst teams at kicking in the AFL. We simply do not have enough players that

can kick to a level that allows us to keep the ball and damage sides with it.

I'm still all for Neeld/Craig and co. They are the one's after all who have come in and said we need to be a high performance club

in all areas and that we were clearly so behind in terms of our fitness last year. I don't remember Bailey ever making that observation.

We have two problems that clearly need addressing:

1 - Older guys, 'experienced players', + 25 group. So soft. So selfish. So mentally week. So average. We need some serious offloading

at seasons end. The negative effect that these guys are having (and have had) on our younger crop is devastating. We have the worst + 25 group within

the AFL by a country mile.

2 - Footskills. Whether we need to draft guys who know how to hit a feggin' moving target, or trade for some elite kickers from other clubs,

I dont care. Just get them in. If Neeld wants us to be the strongest team at the contest and to win the footy, we need guys who can use the thing.

It's absolutely disgusting watching us kick. Garland, Rivers, Bartram, Frawley at times. It's comedy back there at times. Absolute comedy.

Seems pretty simple but really it just means we are further behind the eight ball.

It's funny really cause we have drafted all of these young guys, but they just seem to have no direction. No one to take the lead on the field. No one to

bring them into games. No one to inspire them. Make them walk taller. Mitch Clark is a start. It's killing me.

I'm extremely interested to see who stays and who goes after this season. I have a feeling there could be some wholesale changes with our older

crop.

Edited March 16, 2012 by stevethemanjordan

[Fork 'em 6,938]

Our performance again reported as "Insipid" in the Age.

I'm sick to freakin' death with insipid.

Thought with all Neelds tough talk we might finally get rid of this tag.

Obviously not.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Fork 'em

[Sir Why You Little 36,587]

Our performance again reported as "Insipid" in the Age.

I'm sick to freakin' death with insipid.

Thought with all Neelds tough talk we might finally get rid of this tag.

Obviously not.

Mark Neeld is right. Our players are wrong.

[bing181 8,898]

Mark Neeld is right.

Ok then:

“We’ve got a new coach, so [we’ve got] a new game plan - that’s new. It’s just learning a new method and that takes time,” he said.

“There were certainly passages in the game where we put Port’s use under pressure and there were moments where we were able to wrestle back some ascendency. So that’s encouraging, but I still think early we got spooked and there were a few boys that hesitated.

If you’re going to play - irrespective of the score - a defensive system that involves everyone, it only takes one or two to be off slightly and you fall apart. So that’s what happened.”

[mrtwister 652]

You must surely take into account that we just lost to a team that lost to the two NAB cup grand finaists by a total of 6 points.

PA nearly beat WC in WA and then took care of FD in what can hardly be considered a home game (Mt Gambier).

We have always struggled playing interstate regardless of the opposition.

Ahhhhhh! That's better. Not so tense now.

Edited March 16, 2012 by mrtwister