Having seen the games at Metricon live, and the other 2 on TV, I have a terrible feeling that Neeld's first mistake as coach was on display last night.

If anyone still thinks it was a great idea to appoint Trengove as a co-captain, I think you may be horribly mistaken. Jack is a kid that has been in the system for 2 seasons. He will have days where he stars, he will have a number of days where he just can't get in to the game. To expect this kid to carry the responsibilty of being the captain of the club is just adding extra weight on his shoulders is unfair, and will not assist in his development in the short term. When he is down, and prepare yourself, this will happen on more than one occasion this season, how will he react? I have no doubt he will put extra pressure on himself as he will be worried about how he is performing as captain, rather than just how he is going as a player.

Don't get me wrong, I love Jack, and he oozes class and leadership..but he's not there just yet. Grimes in his first game back this year showed on a number of occasions how he has the poise, the skill and the ability to put himself in to the game, as we would expect our captain to. You just know that he will do that every week.

I strongly believe that JT would've benefited a lot more from being named vice captain, as given JG's record, he would've ended up captaining us for some games in 2012.

I know this is going against the grain of a majority of posters on here, but in your responses, let's try and make valid points rather than turn it in to a sh!t fight.

Thoughts?

Mods - can you please correct spelling of thread title. Cheers

Yeah, but did you consider that maybe he KNEW it was early? Maybe he's not really that worried about wins/losses this season. Maybe what he wants to do is let Jack evolve as a player AND captain simultaneously... so that in 3-4 years the captaincy duties, and on-field leadership are something he has years of experience with, rather than something he need to ADD to his game in the way Green had to add it during his tenure.

I reckon he knows there'll be rough days as you mention, where the pressure seems to mount and mount... but in BOTH Jacks' cases, they seem to thrive under pressure...

Even if what you say happens this year, it might be a masterstroke. We won't know by the end of 2012... we'll know by the end of 2015-16.

  On 11/03/2012 at 08:02, billy2803 said:

Thoughts?

Not much.

I disagree. Talk about placing way too much emphasis on his first hitout for the year. Judd had his first too and was reportedly very "rusty" with his 13 disposals. He played a full game. And yes, I understand the difference between Trengove and Judd. I also understand a first hitout.

Mark Neeld would be aware of the rough road. Trengove will be supported.

  On 11/03/2012 at 08:30, Ben-Hur said:

Not much.

I disagree. Talk about placing way too much emphasis on his first hitout for the year. Judd had his first too and was reportedly very "rusty" with his 13 disposals. He played a full game. And yes, I understand the difference between Trengove and Judd. I also understand a first hitout.

I was there and Judd wasn't rusty, he just didn't win the game off his own boot like he can.

We will see how JT goes. I hope I'm totally off the mark, and hopefully the main mark - Neeld that is, knows what he's doing.

BTW, yes, I am commenting on this on the back of his first hit out for the year, but it is a concern that I've had since the announcement, and it will continually be there for 2012. I hope that in 2014+ the decision was a right one, for JT's sake.

I'd imagine after one bad pre season loss a inquiry is needed into the whole footy department as well. With a loss like we had against the hawks there weren't many shining lights for us. Relax people it was his first hit out and JT can't turn a game like we had against the hawks around by himself.

Look, the old hats or the more experienced guys had a go on showing their leadership capabilities and they were seriously flawed to the point they mutinied against the club.

Hence 186.

I'd much rather a leadership/captain that falters due to youth/inexperience then a group who drove a culture of underperformance, insipidness and was rudderless.

Never forget Jack in our darkest hours committed to the club to 2015. He will have challenges, he will falter but he is a demon, he loves the place.

He is the surest thing on our list that is likely to be an elite A grade talent so get behind him.

  On 11/03/2012 at 09:30, Diablo Deemon said:

Look, the old hats or the more experienced guys had a go on showing their leadership capabilities and they were seriously flawed to the point they mutinied against the club.

Hence 186.

I'd much rather a leadership/captain that falters due to youth/inexperience then a group who drove a culture of underperformance, insipidness and was rudderless.

Never forget Jack in our darkest hours committed to the club to 2015. He will have challenges, he will falter but he is a demon, he loves the place.

He is the surest thing on our list that is likely to be an elite A grade talent so get behind him.

You may well be right DD what worries me is he the only one?

Just as Mark Neeld said today, shifting strategies after such a short time doesn't show any conviction whatsoever. We should support Jack Trengove in his formative months and even years as a Captain, remembering that you can't teach leadership. Jack has it in him and just needs to find it. Becoming comfortable in the role will help that immensely.

I noticed before they ran through the banner Moloney was geeing up the team with Jack. He will get support on the field from Moloney and Green and when Grimes starts to play again he will feel more comfortable. Any hesitancy on the field is expected given that was his first game back and his first as captain. He is obviously held in high esteem by the other players so I am confident he will grow into "job". Give him a break. It was a difficult night for everyone.

Neeld will make plenty of mistakes

What i dont understand is why is someone counting ?

It's embarrassing to see that supporters think that captaining our club is a burden. It should be seen as honour. Until the club finds players that actually show leadership, like never giving up when the chips are down, making sure when the game is in the balance that they do have an impact then Trengove is as good a captain as any.

It's important to note that the club captain was chosen through a rigorous process involving the coaching staff, key administrators and the entire playing list. Ipso facto, virtually anyone who knows anything within the club has glowingly endorsed Jack and Jack to be duel leaders. Whether we on the outside believe Trengove can't perform as a leader due to his inexperience, the coaches and players have stated in clear terms that "he will be the leader of our club."

Who are we to know better?

First practice match of the season, even missed the intra club......the kid is a winner, he will come through. I still remember him winning us the game in Darwin in his first season. A good decision to make him co captain with Grimes, not a mistake. The 2 of them will be champs and we have a few more that will step up.

Sorry billy but I'm absolutely astounded that you've made a call (let alone start a whole new thread), about the performance of one of our Captains after one NAB game against arguably the best team in the league at the moment. And on top of that you've blamed Mark Neeld for poor decision making in giving him the nod.

Good luck with this one mate.

  On 11/03/2012 at 11:52, McQueen said:

Sorry billy but I'm absolutely astounded that you've made a call (let alone start a whole new thread), about the performance of one of our Captains after one NAB game against arguably the best team in the league at the moment. And on top of that you've blamed Mark Neeld for poor decision making in giving him the nod.

Good luck with this one mate.

What it may show us McQueen is that there may be a distinct lack of alternatives.

One Jack has played a handfull of games ( 32 ) over 4 years and the other has played about the same number of games (37 )

That must be some sort of record for two co captains with a total of 69 games between them.

  On 11/03/2012 at 12:02, old dee said:

What it may show us McQueen is that there may be a distinct lack of alternatives.

One Jack has played a handfull of games ( 32 ) over 4 years and the other has played about the same number of games (37 )

That must be some sort of record for two co captains with a total of 69 games between them.

That's true old dee, apart from Jamar we really are strugging in the over 25 department so it's up to Grimes, Trengove, Jones, Frawley, Garland and co to lead the way.

Selwood has stepped into the captaincy at the cats with the likes of Bartell, Kelly, Scarlett, Chapman and Cory still around. We don't have that luxury so we will build it. Hopefully our young leadeship group will be spoken of in the same way in the next 5 to 10 years or else...well I don't want to go there.

  On 11/03/2012 at 08:19, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah, but did you consider that maybe he KNEW it was early? Maybe he's not really that worried about wins/losses this season. Maybe what he wants to do is let Jack evolve as a player AND captain simultaneously... so that in 3-4 years the captaincy duties, and on-field leadership are something he has years of experience with, rather than something he need to ADD to his game in the way Green had to add it during his tenure.

I reckon he knows there'll be rough days as you mention, where the pressure seems to mount and mount... but in BOTH Jacks' cases, they seem to thrive under pressure...

Even if what you say happens this year, it might be a masterstroke. We won't know by the end of 2012... we'll know by the end of 2015-16.

It's the culture he'd breaking, the poor culture of the past 10 years or more.

To do this you have to sweep clean the old habits of the recent past. Not reinstate it through another agent.

  On 11/03/2012 at 10:07, Swampfox said:

Neeld will make plenty of mistakes

What i dont understand is why is someone counting ?

Already has, & will keep on making them until we get them right.

  On 11/03/2012 at 12:02, old dee said:

What it may show us McQueen is that there may be a distinct lack of alternatives.

One Jack has played a handfull of games ( 32 ) over 4 years and the other has played about the same number of games (37 )

That must be some sort of record for two co captains with a total of 69 games between them.

The coach knew there was a distinct lack of alternatives. He's showed as much by dumping the older players from the LG.

He's also indicated that the MFC is going with the youth option and JT and JG were the two most equipped candidates. To judge one of the skips off of one NAB outing is unfair and proving of nothing.

  On 11/03/2012 at 12:15, McQueen said:

The coach new there was a distinct lack of alternatives. He's showed as much by dumping the older players from the LG.

He's also indicated that the MFC is going with the youth option and JT and JG were the two most equipped candidates. To judge one of the skips off of one NAB outing is unfair and proving of nothing.

I agree and it was i think his first game of the year.

Even JC would struggle get saturdays night's team off the canvas.

What worries me is he is probably going to have to carry more than 50% of the load.

It is a very big job for someone so inexperienced, especially if we have a year similar to 2011.

Poor kid will on his knees by mid year.

Imagine having to shoulder the job through a few more of saturday nights results.

  On 11/03/2012 at 08:02, billy2803 said:

Having seen the games at Metricon live, and the other 2 on TV, I have a terrible feeling that Neeld's first mistake as coach was on display last night.

If anyone still thinks it was a great idea to appoint Trengove as a co-captain, I think you may be horribly mistaken. Jack is a kid that has been in the system for 2 seasons. He will have days where he stars, he will have a number of days where he just can't get in to the game. To expect this kid to carry the responsibilty of being the captain of the club is just adding extra weight on his shoulders is unfair, and will not assist in his development in the short term. When he is down, and prepare yourself, this will happen on more than one occasion this season, how will he react? I have no doubt he will put extra pressure on himself as he will be worried about how he is performing as captain, rather than just how he is going as a player.

Don't get me wrong, I love Jack, and he oozes class and leadership..but he's not there just yet. Grimes in his first game back this year showed on a number of occasions how he has the poise, the skill and the ability to put himself in to the game, as we would expect our captain to. You just know that he will do that every week.

I strongly believe that JT would've benefited a lot more from being named vice captain, as given JG's record, he would've ended up captaining us for some games in 2012.

I know this is going against the grain of a majority of posters on here, but in your responses, let's try and make valid points rather than turn it in to a sh!t fight.

Thoughts?

don't think you're jumping the gun at all champ? Digger? cobber?

  On 11/03/2012 at 12:25, old dee said:

I agree and it was i think his first game of the year.

Even JC would struggle get saturdays night's team off the canvas.

What worries me is he is probably going to have to carry more than 50% of the load.

It is a very big job for someone so inexperienced, especially if we have a year similar to 2011.

Poor kid will on his knees by mid year.

Imagine having to shoulder the job through a few more of saturday nights results.

All of my trust sits with the new coach. I trust he will recognise if the burden gets too much for either of the captains. I trust the leadership program the club has in place will turn the two young men into exemplary leaders and fine footballers.

But you are correct, this first year has the potential to make or break.

You don't become captain overnight and while yes, both Jack and, well, Jack have had about a month on the job both of them have only played one game each with the captaincy. One game in the worst possible weather to play football in, as well as only being half a match and the other against a very very skilled team who have a good shot at getting a premiership this year. Both games were glorified practice matches.