Out of all of the players named in the leadership group the selection of Bartram sends the loudest message. It is a really interesting selection.

Absolutely. We've chosen guys who fit the role not guys who fit the profile.

We didn't select just our 'best' or our most experienced players, we selected the guys who best embody the values of the club.

Bartram gets every inch of talent out of himself, he never takes a backwards step, and he's worked his butt off to cement a spot in the team. He had to overcome major personal adversity along the way as well. He chose to pull on a jumper and put up for his teammates the day his father passed away. If that's not being a leader and having absolute desire and dedication for the cause, I don't know what is!

I'm thrilled for him, and all the other players. None of them are as naturally gifted as say Davey, or as loud as Moloney, or as experienced as Green, but they've all had to overcome obstacles in their careers and they've all been shining examples of hope in what has been a long period of adversity for the club.

As for Clark, if he fills the role we hope he does, I couldn't give a [censored] if he's named co-president, let alone vice captain!

Bartram and Clark ahead of Moloney is a little bit of a joke to be honest. Comfortable with the captaincy selections however.

Really?

Moloney who valued the vice captaincy so highly that he went out & got smashed the night after a match?

Right decision.

Maybe one day people will learn there is a lot more to leadership than being vocal.

And the leadership groud is about the best leaders, not the best players.

He's simply not a great leader.

I love the expert opinions here on the inner workings of the club, the players thoughts and feelings and the coaches decision.

Is it that hard for people here to understand that whilst we all love this club, very very few of us actually know what is going on inside.

I am absolutely rapt for the Captains. And for the rest of the leadership group i think it is a wonderful statement.

I do feel for Green who does bleed red and blue as does Moloney. Riv and Davey i'm sure do too but in life and in football hard decisions need to be made and this club has for too long shirked the real tough decisions.

I have absolute faith in what Neeld and co have decided and that those who are not in the leadership group any more will still continue to give their all for the club.

I love Neeld's 'new broom' approach, and like many others, I'm both happy and excited by the new leadership arrangements (even if I'm slightly surprised by a couple of the changes).

Somehow I'm reminded of the following quote attributed to many Melbourne players who played under the late / great Norm Smith: "as a coach, Smithy was always fair and just ..... a fair bastard and just a [censored]". Coaches need to make tough, uncompromising and (dare I say it) unpopular decisions from time to time. If a few current players think of Neeld as 'fair and just' in a similar vein, then they will get over it soon enough. It heralds a refreshing change at Melbourne, and this approach certainly didn't do Smithy's coaching record any harm.

- Trengrove may well be captain for the majority of 2012

After all of the publicity you seriously can't get our captain's name right ? Seriously ?

A leadership group of 8 for a list of 45? Smacks of too many chiefs, not enough indians for mine.

I agree. Why can't we take a leaf out of Collingwood's book ? They only chose 7.

Very perculiar call regarding leadership group- kick in the face to Rivers with Garland picked instead. Furthermore, Clark picked and no Moloney-wow- open to a hell of a lot of in fighting.And Bartram- isn't he from ocean grove- Barwon Heads where Neeld lives?

So so sooo misguided.

If the deposed players start in-fighting, it will only prove they were never fit for the position in the first place.

Rivers - never saw himself as a leader, and is an inferior leader to Garland.

Green - worst captain we've had in a long time. Harsh but true.

Davey - that's simply not leadership flash.

Moloney - covered above.

Bartram's Ocean Grove and Barwon heads connection? Really??

Maybe you don't realise that there's actually a fierce rivalry between the 2..?

Also, it removes the temptation for the young leaders to defer to their older counterparts.

A change was needed, and by god did we get it.

And more than anything, it should be remembered that there is no shame in not being a good leader.

Plenty of people aren't. It doesn't make any of the players bad people or players, or even that they have a bad character. Just not one conducive to leadership.

They simply are not the best leaders we have on the list, and this is an elite level sport.

We must have elite leadership.

Absolutely. We've chosen guys who fit the role not guys who fit the profile.

We didn't select just our 'best' or our most experienced players, we selected the guys who best embody the values of the club.

Bartram gets every inch of talent out of himself, he never takes a backwards step, and he's worked his butt off to cement a spot in the team. He had to overcome major personal adversity along the way as well. He chose to pull on a jumper and put up for his teammates the day his father passed away. If that's not being a leader and having absolute desire and dedication for the cause, I don't know what is!

I'm thrilled for him, and all the other players. None of them are as naturally gifted as say Davey, or as loud as Moloney, or as experienced as Green, but they've all had to overcome obstacles in their careers and they've all been shining examples of hope in what has been a long period of adversity for the club.

As for Clark, if he fills the role we hope he does, I couldn't give a [censored] if he's named co-president, let alone vice captain!

Nicely said. Bartram has been a steady quiet achiever during his time...I wish him all the best now he has become a senior.

Working your backside off is not of the highest importance when talking leadership. We would be stupid to think that anyone at an AFL club gets through a season without working their backside off. Bartram as a leader is mystifying because few of us have ever seen him influence his team mates for the betterment of the team. Is he tough? Bloody oath he is. Disciplined and ever ready - yes. But not once have I heard a team mate or coach speak of his influence among the team. That is why I question his place in the leaderhip team.

As far as Clark goes, this is a complete unknown and he may be a natural leader. But I cannot believe that in 4.5 months over summer preseason that he has demonstraed more leadership ability than Rivers, Davey, Moloney and Green.

If Neeld and the coaches want a fresh start, a clean slate etc... then they are on the right track with Trengove and Grimes whose leadership credentials have followed them throughout their football from juniors through to AFL. But to move players aside who have built up strong leaedrship qualitites over a 5 - 8 year period says either their leadership was based on the fact that there was no-one else, or their leadership failed. I find it implausible that the coaches cannot find leadership qualities in one of Rivers, Green, or Davey at a level to include them in the leadership group.

As ar as Moloney goes, good leaders are those who have shown character through diversity. Moloney handled his very low-level drinking misdemeanour with strength and honesty. For mine this adds to his leadership quality rather than detracting from it. He was never going to be our skipper, but for mine he is required in an ongoing leadership role in our club.

Edited February 3, 201213 yr by Maldonboy38

After all of the publicity you seriously can't get our captain's name right ? Seriously ?

Seriously Ben-Hur!!!

7 -8 comments later I wrote the following

"Good point jnrmac.

my excuse is i am trying to squeeze it in between work emails.

thought you would have picked up the wrong spelling of Trengove.

Oh well seems we can all make mistakes."

So I assume from your holy attitude that you have never made an error.

You know what they say about people who never make errors?

They never do anything to make any!

Save your indignation for something serious.

My earlier theory doesn't really stand up. Dench was the previously the youngest captain in the VFL/AFL. Trenners still had 40 days grace. But my point is made simply by visiting afl.com.au and comparing the coverage Trangove/Grimes has recieved when compared to Swallow from the Roos.

But not once have I heard a team mate or coach speak of his influence among the team. That is why I question his place in the leaderhip team.

He wouldn't be in the side each and every week if he didn't, because he doesn't have enough natural talent to coast by. Not to mention that you probably never heard team mates or coaches speak about Garland in the same way either.

Just because we don't hear about it, doesn't mean it's not there.

Grimes has spent effectively 2 years out injured, and he's captain of the club. That's how much influence he has on his teammates. Whether you know about it or not, is irrelevant.

Plenty of grunt in the 8 players selected . Which seems to be a trait that Mark Neeld likes a lot .

Bit puzzled by the Moloney omission but that could be a strategic move by Neeld to put all the players on notice . Mark doesn't need to be a nice guy .

Congratulations to both Jack Grimes and Jack Trengove . The right move by our Club and gives us a "Lets start from scratch" attitude . Naming Co-Captains has an added advantage of both Jacks always wanting to play well and lead by example . This could be a stroke of genius by Neeld .

Happy to see Garland and Bartram in the leadership group and Clark is a good move as well .

All in all , I like the new direction .

Happy with the leadership group and I trust those that are in it are the ones that will inspire their peers the most. And that is what's most important- not how many seasons you have been with the club, or how many games you have played- but the esteem your colleagues hold you in.

A lot of panic merchants around here. Don't worry about Moloney/Rivers et all feelings, they will suck it up and move on. Get behind the new leadership group and embrace change.

Go Dees!!

Ay

Funny you should say that because I've seen Moloney do exactly the same. In any case and as others have said, who are we to pass judgement on these selections? All I know is last years leadership was at times non-existent and I remember on a couple of occasions self-congratulatory such as after the win against GC early on.

Your right diesel, who are we to judge. Beamer gets angry after a loss during a game. Rightly so as he bleeds red and blue and hates to lose. Some say he is a front track bully as he only performs against lower teams. I say he is the only good midfielder we have and cant beat top midfielders alone. He is often tagged too as he is a berometer in the midfield.

Clarke is one who sooks when beaten by his direct opponent. Hopefully more responsibility will change this trait. As i said this info is from Lion supporters.

Also a win is a win and shoulb be celebrated. GC or GWS

Seriously Ben-Hur!!!

7 -8 comments later I wrote the following

"Good point jnrmac.

my excuse is i am trying to squeeze it in between work emails.

thought you would have picked up the wrong spelling of Trengove.

Oh well seems we can all make mistakes."

So I assume from your holy attitude that you have never made an error.

You know what they say about people who never make errors?

They never do anything to make any!

Save your indignation for something serious.

A couple of things. It's an unacceptable mistake and one that I'd never make. I make mistakes, but I'll never make that one.

Secondly, I skim posts. I look for a name, i.e. "Trengove", or may pay more attention to a particular poster. Alas, I missed your bit.

A year or two back a number of posters advocated that Davey become captain of the MFC. At the time I thought he'd be a poor choice. It's salient that he's now not even in the leadership group. I can't fault Neeld's judgement to this juncture.

Edited February 3, 201213 yr by Ben-Hur

A couple of things. It's an unacceptable mistake and one that I'd never make. I make mistakes, but I'll never make that one.

Secondly, I skim posts. I look for a name, i.e. "Trengove", or may pay more attention to a particular poster. Alas, I missed your bit.

Firstly I acknowledged the mistake.

Second it is simply wonderful to be in your company.

I have never meet anyone up to now who has never made an error spelling someone name.

I have never meet anyone up to now who has never made an error spelling someone name.

^^^

Look, I can see that you're not good at this, but do you think that the mystical second 'r' in Trengove's name hadn't been covered about 1,000 times ?

Like the club, I'll move on.

Over time Trengove may over take Grimes, but watching the press conference, Grimes just screams quality. I actually get quite emotional listening to him speak, he is simply sensational. This is taking nothing away from Trengove by the way.

And on a side note, how amazing is it to think that Grimes grew up a passionate Melbourne supporter, like us, and he now has the great honour of being the captain. Amazing!

Firstly I acknowledged the mistake.

Second it is simply wonderful to be in your company.

I have never meet anyone up to now who has never made an error spelling someone name.

^^^

Look, I can see that you're not good at this, but do you think that the mystical second 'r' in Trengove's name hadn't been covered about 1,000 times ?

Like the club, I'll move on.

Fellas fellas, fellas...

take it to the Trentgove thread, please!

Over time Trengove may over take Grimes, but watching the press conference, Grimes just screams quality. I actually get quite emotional listening to him speak, he is simply sensational. This is taking nothing away from Trengove by the way.

And on a side note, how amazing is it to think that Grimes grew up a passionate Melbourne supporter, like us, and he now has the great honour of being the captain. Amazing!

Yes it is fairy tale stuff Jaded.

I just pray he can stay on the park.

That would go along way to making the fairy tale real.

Fellas fellas, fellas...

take it to the Trentgove thread, please!

Lovely Sloonie

Yes it is fairy tale stuff Jaded.

I just pray he can stay on the park.

That would go along way to making the fairy tale real.

Too True.

Seriously Ben-Hur!!!

7 -8 comments later I wrote the following

"Good point jnrmac.

my excuse is i am trying to squeeze it in between work emails.

thought you would have picked up the wrong spelling of Trengove.

Oh well seems we can all make mistakes."

So I assume from your holy attitude that you have never made an error.

You know what they say about people who never make errors?

They never do anything to make any!

Save your indignation for something serious.

Ya know Old Dee i neva spelt anythink rong in me life either!!!