It was in crisis in 2011 and not much has changed for 2012.

Again, we have many 'born leaders' on our list now, but they were born too late and the massive issues with our senior players won't resolve themselves until they are no longer senior players.

It was in crisis in 2011 and not much has changed for 2012.

At this point last year would you really have said we had a crisis? We had 3 players who all had arguably the same claim to captaincy as the others (Davey, Green, Moloney). Only one of those players had a good season, but it was tainted by his late night actions. I believe all 3 of these players can re-group and fix the problems that they had in 2011 this season. I do not think we have a crisis.

If we have recruited the right Coach and the right Deputies in the Football Dept. then we will have no leadership problems at all in 2012 & beyond.

At this point last year would you really have said we had a crisis? We had 3 players who all had arguably the same claim to captaincy as the others (Davey, Green, Moloney). Only one of those players had a good season, but it was tainted by his late night actions. I believe all 3 of these players can re-group and fix the problems that they had in 2011 this season. I do not think we have a crisis.

This time last year I said we have three adequate options for captain and a dearth of good, reliable senior players. I didn't see the disaster that was about to befall though...

It panned out that we had a captain in 15 goal wins and a scared little boy when times were tough. We had a senior player group comprising a bustling frontrunner, a selfless albeit mute defender with awful body language, an out of form easily antagonised designated left foot, an injured 'born leader,' and a bald chirping battler of consistency as a shining light.

The kids had no-one but themselves to turn to and it was a disaster that led to thorough thrashings throughout the season and 186.

We had a leadership crisis that we have respite from at the moment because it's pre-season.

I agree .He did not show leadership on the field and don't forget Viney dropped him due to poor form.CS is the boss.Like it or lump it- that is the case.Also this most probably will be Brad's last year.Under Bailey we lost Junior, Bruce, Miller - all still required as leaders or players at other clubs.Now, we have to develop the younger brigade.

The only boss the players need to answer to is the Coach.

Neeld is the boss and I'm pretty certain that he's going to remind the playing group of that fact very regularly.

C.S. is the boss of his domain. Mark Neeld is the boss of his domain. That is how it must be, and stay.

I also hope C.S.& Mark Neeld have a very strong working relationship with each other. We are all Melbourne.

This time last year I said we have three adequate options for captain and a dearth of good, reliable senior players. I didn't see the disaster that was about to befall though...

It panned out that we had a captain in 15 goal wins and a scared little boy when times were tough. We had a senior player group comprising a bustling frontrunner, a selfless albeit mute defender with awful body language, an out of form easily antagonised designated left foot, an injured 'born leader,' and a bald chirping battler of consistency as a shining light.

The kids had no-one but themselves to turn to and it was a disaster that led to thorough thrashings throughout the season and 186.

We had a leadership crisis that we have respite from at the moment because it's pre-season.

You make a fair point, but I still do not believe it's a crisis. If they're a good enough leader, I don't think it matters how old the players are.

You make a fair point, but I still do not believe it's a crisis. If they're a good enough leader, I don't think it matters how old the players are.

I'm not quite sure what you mean with that last sentence.

If you think 'senior players' is referring to older players?

The 'senior players' are the ones in the LG, are the ones the rest of the team look to, Green is one but so is Grimes.

Whether or not Trengove has a title in 2012 - he will probably be a senior player due to extra responsibility on the field and other players looking to him for leadership and motivation.

What my previous post was basically saying, and I have said this ad nauseum (probably literally), is that we won't improve as a team until the names Green, Davey, Rivers, and Moloney are replaced by Grimes, Trengove, McKenzie, and Frawley as senior players. Because they are far more consistent, less intimidated, and have better body language in trying times when the team is looking at the senior players for motivation and leadership.

Grimes, Trengove, McKenzie, and Frawley as senior players. Because they are far more consistent, less intimidated, and have better body language in trying times when the team is looking at the senior players for motivation and leadership.

You said what I'm trying to get at just there. We have a new generation of leaders coming through with the players you mentioned, but by sounds of it also in others such as Watts and Nicholson. Sure, Green was not the right choice for captain last season, and Davey was down on form. Rivers, Jones and Moloney all had very good seasons and Grimes was allegedly leading well from the sidelines due to his injury.

Davey needs a change of attitude, and should be dropped from the LG in 2012. I still believe Green is a good leader, probably not captain material, but deserves a role in the leadership group.

As such, not a leadership crisis since many of our older players are not as bad as 2011 indicated, and we have a batch of young players with quality leadership skills coming through.

You said what I'm trying to get at just there. We have a new generation of leaders coming through with the players you mentioned, but by sounds of it also in others such as Watts and Nicholson. Sure, Green was not the right choice for captain last season, and Davey was down on form. Rivers, Jones and Moloney all had very good seasons and Grimes was allegedly leading well from the sidelines due to his injury.

Davey needs a change of attitude, and should be dropped from the LG in 2012. I still believe Green is a good leader, probably not captain material, but deserves a role in the leadership group.

As such, not a leadership crisis since many of our older players are not as bad as 2011 indicated, and we have a batch of young players with quality leadership skills coming through.

We were, at times, pathetic as a team in 2011 and form isn't leadership.

Rivers being the case in point - his form wasn't bad, he was solid but his navel gazing and introverted onfield demeanour was pathetic to a young backline that needs more from him.

Jones is the only one in my book that gets a pass mark from the LG. Moloney was a frontrunner, Davey petulant, Green and Rivers navel gazing ghosts and Grimes simply a ghost.

And they are still the ones front and centre from what I can tell - and until I see the players I mentioned replaced by better options I maintain the view that we have a onfield leadership akin to PA and GC, barely above GWS, and years behind any other team.

It's not a crisis. Conundrum is more the word.

We need to expunge words like 'crisis' and 'burden' from our club vocabulary when it comes to leadership.

Let's view it as a challenge to be overcome with confidence, rather than getting all angst-ridden about it.

The crisis was 5+ years ago, but not many realised...

Not enough, anyway.

The crisis was 5+ years ago, but not many realised...

Not enough, anyway.

Jimmy did thankfully.

Jimmy did thankfully.

Jim Stynes has very little-nothing to do with the leadership group of the MFC.

Jim Stynes has very little-nothing to do with the leadership group of the MFC.

And maybe that is something that could change for the better. They might learn some hard stuff.

And maybe that is something that could change for the better. They might learn some hard stuff.

You're like a bloody charicature!

Did you know that Jim Stynes created the iPod and he's also the reason ice cream tastes so good?

Uh-huh!

All club boards approve the captain and the LG. Neil Balme said this on KB's show last week. It maybe just a formality, but the process is followed. So i think the MFC board do have at least a tokanistic imput

i had purged 186 from my memory....

need a scotch now.

we also seriously need to DEESTROY GWS. i mean a serious, physical and mental pounding from minute one till final siren. we should be aiming for a record AFL high score in this game.

as for a winning GF margin - i dream about winning one and the feeling that would come with it (as well as the month long bender i will have) - but we would have to be 20 goals up at 3/4 time for me to enjoy it......and i would love that. i was going to say 10 goals but id be too scared we would throw it away!

I wouldn't dwell on it too much if I was a Demon. And before setting my sights on smashing the living bejeezus out of some of the plebs of the comp I'd start on just showing a bit of spine against some of the heavies. Really believe that there are big things around the corener at Demon land all - really do.

I wouldn't dwell on it too much if I was a Demon. And before setting my sights on smashing the living bejeezus out of some of the plebs of the comp I'd start on just showing a bit of spine against some of the heavies. Really believe that there are big things around the corener at Demon land all - really do.

i think that its more of a case of, if they are destroying gws for 4 qs instead of just playing one and cruising, it will show that they are actually going somewhere, and their motivation will be to play as well as they can all of the time, and not just win even though they didnt play very well. if that makes sense.

i think that its more of a case of, if they are destroying gws for 4 qs instead of just playing one and cruising, it will show that they are actually going somewhere, and their motivation will be to play as well as they can all of the time, and not just win even though they didnt play very well. if that makes sense.

yeah makes sense mate and see your point. Im sure that this year we will see a bit of determinsation at Demon land - cant wait to see it!

Niall thinks they will go with co captains of Grimes or Trengove with a senior player. Only name he mentioned was Beamer

I'm sick of a capotain good or otherwise starnded in the goal square whilst the team unravels - think Green, Neitz.

We need a gun mid-fielder - think Lyon, Viney, and some guts to bring on the obvious even if a bit youngish - North did with David Dench at 21.

Trengove as Captain - Beamer and Frawley as V/C's.

Pretty obvious I reckon. Problem? - What problem!

Crisis, what Crisis!

IMO we should all remember that we had a woeful list back in 2007, bereft of real talent that could 'Grow & improve to take us forward. It also had a very poor Culture which was of entertaining & 'survival',,, rather than 'Winning'.

This cleansing journey has been a 'Must' for us, & the dearth of 'Leaders' & leadership was a result of that list & culture. But the Ying & Yang of it (weakness), is that our weakness allowed us to then feed off the fresh pickings close to the ground level, rather than from the Tree Tops.

The Lush pasture gives us the nutrition to grow & flourish into a powerful Beast. With the right toughness & learnings going forward.

This lack of 'leadership' has allowed us this rejuve-nation more quickly.

Now it's Time to deevelop our new leaders from whats left of the best attitudes we can Must-er.

The Sum of the parts.

You're like a bloody charicature!

Did you know that Jim Stynes created the iPod and he's also the reason ice cream tastes so good?

Uh-huh!

You really are a cranky old bugger aern't you 25....

I too have been lavish in my praise of Jim Stynes for a very good reason . He's the best President I've seen at our Club by a country mile . Hopefully Jimmy makes a full recovery .

The way he has set up our Club for the future is outstanding . Surely our board and the people in important positions can now endeavor to do their jobs as well as Jim ? If they do we will be a power again .

The best Presidents are the ones that set things up well , get the right people in the right places , delegate properly and then oversee in a fair and balanced way .

Leadership starts at the top and we've got our man .

For those who missed this story , here's the link

http://www.heraldsun...2-1226243992509

Edited January 26, 201213 yr by Macca

I too have been lavish in my praise of Jim Stynes for a very good reason . He's the best President I've seen at our Club by a country mile . Hopefully Jimmy makes a full recovery .

The way he has set up our Club for the future is outstanding . Surely our board and the people in important positions can now endeavor to do their jobs as well as Jim ? If they do we will be a power again .

The best Presidents are the ones that set things up well , get the right people in the right places , delegate properly and then oversee in a fair and balanced way .

Leadership starts at the top and we've got our man .

For those who missed this story , here's the link

http://www.heraldsun...2-1226243992509

Well said, he started the change which has had a big roll on affect, he helped clear the debt which was a massive shadow over our club and the new facilities and changes since the end of last season will see us competing on an even playing field. Culture doesn't change overnight but the wheels were put in motion back in 2008. We hit rock bottom and are on the way back up. Enjoy the journey and unlike some so called supporters as bad as we have been since 08 I have enjoyed watching some of these kids progressing it's a long time ago since I was a schoolboy and I didn't know it at the time but I think back now and believe we are heading somehwere similar to 1987, whether that is 2012 or 13 I don't know but I have faith.