Training - Monday 9th January, 2012

[bjDee 1,249]

...but I think most supporters would still have been happier to have kept him on a reasonable contract and not the ridiculous money that he and his father are getting in their package from GWS. None of that was to be and I'm entitled to my opinion that the two compensatory picks for a # 1 were inadequate.

All in all, I'm happier with the balance of the squad post-Scully and that's where I stand on the issue.

I remember being excited at the enticing reports of Scull's training. And I hated the AFL-sanctioned scullduggery that got him to GWS. But i do not regret losing what turned out to be a lying skunk with no character. Sorry to open up on the topic that probably belongs somewhere else.

To get back on track, I too agree that the squad is looking in much better balance with all the changes that have happened.

[bjDee 1,249]

Now Bate is like a new recruit to some posters here . Wouldn't surprise me if Bate became a top five Bluey contender.

I virtually wrote off Bater last year, questioning if the game had passed by a player with his abilities/physique etc. But I really really really hope I was wrong about him last year. I just liked him from his first game. Would love it if Neeld proved to be a magician and Bater was his best trick.

[Lutz 76]

Funny how everyone's an expert on Bate and Dunn .I thought they weren't even good enough for AFL? Now Bate is like a new recruit to some posters here . Wouldn't surprise me if Bate became a top five Bluey contender .Bailey crucified Bate and Bate kept his chin up .I believe in him 100%. Why do we pick on forwards when our mids were the problem? Dunstall or Lockett would have had the same result in our team last year.

Because, as a tall forward, which he was, he had severe limitations.

I'm sceptical as to how well he'll go as a midfielder, but so far reports have been pleasing.

[Whispering_Jack 30,640]

After all these years it's still a worry that some players are so one sided in the way Bate is on his left side. I always though that would be a problem with someone who is going to be played in the middle but I must be wrong because the FD continues to trial him there.

[Demonsterative 3,020]

IMO left footers never seem to have a good right foot (green is an example) but they get away with it as they turn to their left foot instincfully. Whilst right sided players turn right instincfully and defensively.

Bates biggest problem is his agility as a midfielfer. He needs a big turning circle to get on his left foot, thus needing more time. The opposition will work him out easily.

I hope im wrong and he can use his build to his advantage. Im just know him as a forward

[pringle 42]

2 or 3 years ago Bate was a shining light in an otherwise mediocre team. Some considered him close to top 50 in the league. He has talent. But he is in no mans land in that he's not a true midfielder and not a true KPP forward. He has excellent disposal I50 and regularly hits targets. I feel he could be an excellent HFF. I have doubts about his ability to be a very effective midfielder, but would love to be proven wrong.

Aso, I know we have a severe lack of class in the midfield compared with the best teams, but in 2000, I really don't think we were much different. We had a solid but workmanlike midfield. We will only be a REAL premiership contender when we get this class in the mix and firing 100% (I'm thinking Trengove, Sylvia at his best, Jones to step up as well and become elite (similar to Dane Swan in my opinion) and Viney to add the finishing touch). Add Grimes with a couple more years development,Morton with a few added kg's and perhaps Tappy and McKenzie rotating through and we could become a class midfield. Even Bail and Jetta add another dimension.

Time will tell, but in the meantime, there's no reason we can't significantly improve and make finals this year with the stocks we currently have.

Edited January 10, 2012 by pringle

[PRIME 41]

Anyone know when the next training at gosch's paddock will be?

[waynewussell 6,237]

Mighty Demon don't forget Gysberts!

[Lutz 76]

Pringle, I actually think Bate would be best used on a wing, so he can run in long straight lines and kick long into the forward line.

But I agree with the rest of what you have said.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Sounds like Barty's keen to get out of the rehab group! Had surgery a few weeks back IIRC on his knee.

Neeld is apparently a fan, so will not be surprised to see him get some game time this year. Should have his 100th early on. But if Barty can hold down a spot, and Bater is in the running, I think Dunny will be spending a lot of time at Casey and probably walking at the end of the year. GWS or GC?

Thanks for that DT. I don't mind the coaches and Misson holding him up a little re his knee.

Barty showed last time he was to eager with his past Meniscus tear/operation, and set himself well back, a few years ago.

I thnk Barty could go well in a tactically structured game style like Neelds.

[Robbie57 2,022]

2 or 3 years ago Bate was a shining light in an otherwise mediocre team. Some considered him close to top 50 in the league. He has talent. But he is in no mans land in that he's not a true midfielder and not a true KPP forward. He has excellent disposal I50 and regularly hits targets. I feel he could be an excellent HFF. I have doubts about his ability to be a very effective midfielder, but would love to be proven wrong.

Aso, I know we have a severe lack of class in the midfield compared with the best teams, but in 2000, I really don't think we were much different. We had a solid but workmanlike midfield. We will only be a REAL premiership contender when we get this class in the mix and firing 100% (I'm thinking Trengove, Sylvia at his best, Jones to step up as well and become elite (similar to Dane Swan in my opinion) and Viney to add the finishing touch). Add Grimes with a couple more years development,Morton with a few added kg's and perhaps Tappy and McKenzie rotating through and we could become a class midfield. Even Bail and Jetta add another dimension.

Time will tell, but in the meantime, there's no reason we can't significantly improve and make finals this year with the stocks we currently have.

I too recall those days for Bate and thought he could be a good player for us, then it all went very wrong. I think the optimistic amongst us hope the change of position and coaching staff will do the trick in the way a change of club does. I hope he does well.

As for Jones I think he has made a step up each year. Whilst I dont think he will be elite he will improve yet again because he has that sort of attitude. Remember a few years back when he used to break through packs and it would always end up in a horrible turnover. He learnt that lesson.

What i am keen to see is who embraces the new up or out policy.

And I cant wait to see what surprises Neeld has for us come the first match.

Will Watts be played in a role similar to Goodes.

All pretty exciting.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

After all these years it's still a worry that some players are so one sided in the way Bate is on his left side. I always though that would be a problem with someone who is going to be played in the middle but I must be wrong because the FD continues to trial him there.

I'm amazed that with all the free time and coaching resources available to players Bate still can't kick on his right side at an adequate level.

[monoccular 17,573]

I'm amazed that with all the free time and coaching resources available to players Bate still can't kick on his right side at an adequate level.

It is something that has always puzzled me too, in this full time professional age.

Surely anyone who reaches the AFL list level should have decent skills, and should be able to be taught how to make up for their deficiencies, especially something as fundamental in our game as kicking.

One would think that if a "kicking coach" worked 5 days a week for several hours with someone like Bate on right foot kicking he would improve. Or with Bartram on even right foot field kicking.

The same goes for all players with set shots from in front inside 50: they should all have a 90+% goal rate, but they don't. Is it lack of hard work and concentration, mental softness, or just human nature?

[Lutz 76]

I'd put it in the same basket as goal-kicking.

Fitness managers probably don't want the players to have the load on their legs, and little time is devoted to sharpening that particular skill.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I'd put it in the same basket as goal-kicking.

Fitness managers probably don't want the players to have the load on their legs, and little time is devoted to sharpening that particular skill.

Take a footy home and practice kicking on his right foot in his back yard.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Clint Bizkit

[waynewussell 6,237]

I think its a myth that Bate can't kick on his right. I saw him land a perfect 40 metre right foot pass in 'midfield to leading forward' drills on Monday. He just needs to build confidence in it in match conditions.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I think its a myth that Bate can't kick on his right. I saw him land a perfect 40 metre right foot pass in 'midfield to leading forward' drills on Monday. He just needs to build confidence in it in match conditions.

I'm sure he is great on his right foot at training, but we need to see it in games under pressure.

[Lutz 76]

Take a footy home and practice kicking on his right foot in his back yard.

Putting extra loads on his right leg, against the wishes of Misson?

My understanding is that it's down to fine science and these things are carefully measured...

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

Take a footy home and practice kicking on his right foot in his back yard.

What if he lives in a unit?

[rjay 25,087]

It is something that has always puzzled me too, in this full time professional age.

Surely anyone who reaches the AFL list level should have decent skills, and should be able to be taught how to make up for their deficiencies, especially something as fundamental in our game as kicking.

One would think that if a "kicking coach" worked 5 days a week for several hours with someone like Bate on right foot kicking he would improve. Or with Bartram on even right foot field kicking.

The same goes for all players with set shots from in front inside 50: they should all have a 90+% goal rate, but they don't. Is it lack of hard work and concentration, mental softness, or just human nature?

This is not just a Bate issue or sport science, it's a bit like why the drop kick has gone out of the game and the torp has almost gone the same way. Coaches encourage, in fact demand players get on to their natural kicking foot, this goes back to Alan Jeans and is all about less margin for error. It's very rare for any player in the modern era to kick on their non preferred foot, some players like Sam Blease kick really well off both but it is not the norm.

Back in the good old days at training you were always encouraged to kick on the foot you turned on but if you go to an AFL session these days you will find more often than not players move on to their natural foot.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Putting extra loads on his right leg, against the wishes of Misson?

My understanding is that it's down to fine science and these things are carefully measured...

Extra loads? If a player can't kick a football on his opposite leg no matter the loads he shouldn't be playing.

[daisycutter 29,737]

Take a footy home and practice kicking on his right foot in his back yard.

people have back yards these days?

[Bossdog 2,002]

Most players these days kick on thier natural foot and lay the ball across the foot to get the desired result(hope that makes sense)

[3031 11]

people have back yards these days?

Not sure..in my day it was cricket, minigolf and footy in the backyard and footy in the front (watch out for the roses!). Can't say I ever made a hundred in the backyard at Mum's though kicked a few goals and scored a lucky golf shot hole in one on the fifth near the cumquat tree !

Edited January 12, 2012 by 3031

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

It's really quite simple.

Bate doesn't have great ball handling skills, agility, mobility or flexibility.

He is uncoordinated and will always struggle to kick on his right. He would be the kind of bloke that would also struggle to ski, roller skate etc.

That is a fact...

I'm not a basher. But if you look at the guy from a purely physiological perspective, he is not someone you would pick to play modern day AFL football.

And as for him trying out in the midfield? I think the club are clutching at straws here. You need to be able to do more than have a long kick and run straight lines these days.

All the best to the guy, but I have never rated him.

Edited January 12, 2012 by stevethemanjordan