Grimes, Nicholson, Tapscott, Bate, Bennell, Jetta, Evans, Blease, Mckenzie, Morton, Gysberts, Petterd are all young, keen and if fit and in form will be knocking on the door of that centreline. If not we'll improve very little on last year.

Yes, but that has always been and should be, the case... however, the fact remains that Beamer, Jones and Rivers had excellent seasons by anyone's standard and that should not be diminished or dismissed as being simply good performances in a club that performed poorly.

The season is far from shot but our midfield remains our biggest impediment to flag success

But Jones has developed every year and what is he now 23-25 he is prepared to put in the hard yards, who was Dane Swan 3 - 4 years ago, Trengove is all class and will be a 10-15 year player, Gysberts is still a kid, Mckenzie had no pre season last year but great work ethic, Viney is to come, Grimes, Tappy, Blease are talked about to come into the midfield, I have said it for the last 18 months this team is the team around 86-87 all over at some stage they will click, I don't know when that will be but I look forward to the day, so I wouldn't be to quick to right this midfield off as never being any use!

My list analysis centres fairly and squarely on the midfield. We can have all the talls or structure up forward we like with bells and whistles. But if we don't get an injection of quality and class into the midfield we're kidding ourselves talking about a flag(s) in a few years time.

The midfield is where it starts. And whilst we may be drafting Jack Viney through father & son in 2012, IMO at this stage it will be how the club goes about using our two compo picks that will ultimately depend upon our midfield class level in years to come. Because based on 2011 it currently ranks at a "C- midfield" for me.

You're kidding yourself if you think we have any more than about 6 likely certainties. And you're kidding yourself if you think we'll suddenly magically NOT be pushed off the ball next year. Only GWS and GC... and maybe North and Richmond will be out [censored]. Take a look at the Pies game from last year, then try and tell me that one pre-season under a new coach and panel will make me out of those boys.

My list analysis centres fairly and squarely on the midfield. We can have all the talls or structure up forward we like with bells and whistles. But if we don't get an injection of quality and class into the midfield we're kidding ourselves talking about a flag(s) in a few years time.

The midfield is where it starts. And whilst we may be drafting Jack Viney through father & son in 2012, IMO at this stage it will be how the club goes about using our two compo picks that will ultimately depend upon our midfield class level in years to come. Because based on 2011 it currently ranks at a "C- midfield" for me.

Yes, our midfield is currently C-grade. No argument there.

However, you have to consider the fact we have Jack Viney + 2 compo picks which should be used on classy midfielders or traded for a classy midfielder.

We are 2-3 GUN midfielders away from being genuine top 4 contenders. We have 3 midfielders on the way (Viney + 2 more first round picks) plus it has been mentioned that guys on our list- Gysberts, Grimes, Tapscott and even Taggert come to mind first- who could really add to our current midfield group.

Yes, our midfield is currently C-grade. No argument there.

However, you have to consider the fact we have Jack Viney + 2 compo picks which should be used on classy midfielders or traded for a classy midfielder.

We are 2-3 GUN midfielders away from being genuine top 4 contenders. We have 3 midfielders on the way (Viney + 2 more first round picks) plus it has been mentioned that guys on our list- Gysberts, Grimes, Tapscott and even Taggert come to mind first- who could really add to our current midfield group.

I actually referred to Jack Viney and the 2 compo picks in my post....and mentioned it will ultimately depend upon the use of our 2 compo picks that will determine the midfield class in years to come...

So we agree.

Neeld has told four players that they are required for each match, as good as it gets to 'a certainty'. And it's not who you would expect.

I have also heard this. Russian, Chipper, Barty and Grimes. Each one of them has a role given to them, and that will be their main focus for the match., I can see Jamar's as just 'win the ruck contest', Frawley as 'beat the tall forward' Bartram as 'beat the small forward' but Grimes's could be anything from 'run it out of the back' or 'be the captain'....

Edited November 27, 201113 yr by Deefence

But Jones has developed every year and what is he now 23-25 he is prepared to put in the hard yards, who was Dane Swan 3 - 4 years ago, Trengove is all class and will be a 10-15 year player, Gysberts is still a kid, Mckenzie had no pre season last year but great work ethic, Viney is to come, Grimes, Tappy, Blease are talked about to come into the midfield, I have said it for the last 18 months this team is the team around 86-87 all over at some stage they will click, I don't know when that will be but I look forward to the day, so I wouldn't be to quick to right this midfield off as never being any use!

This midfield won't win a flag or finish top 4

This midfield won't win a flag or finish top 4

Give it time and it will make the nucleaus of a regular Top 4 contender midfield, I'm not saying we will be top 4 next year But I expect it to take a step forward and progress. Top 6 2013/14 & after that we should be right up there

Edited November 28, 201113 yr by Pennant St Dee

Give it time and it will make the nucleaus of a regular Top 4 contender midfield, I'm not saying we will be top 4 next year But I expect it to take a step forward and progress. Top 6 2013/14 & after that we should be right up there

With Jones and Moloney leading the midfield we won't finish top 4, simple

Neeld has told four players that they are required for each match, as good as it gets to 'a certainty'. And it's not who you would expect.

Who are the four? Please advise.

Who are the four? Please advise.

Deefence above has confirmed the four names I heard.

With Jones and Moloney leading the midfield we won't finish top 4, simple

In your opinion... which, by the way, is no more and no less valid than that of anyone else who might believe they could lead the midfield to a top 4 finish.

6 Bate 24 [90]

3 Bartram 23 [95]

2 Jones 23 [114]

10 Morton 21 [64]

4 Watts 20 [40]

These players are all younger than my impression of them. They've played plenty of games considering their age. They all have time and scope for significant improvement

These players are all younger than my impression of them. They've played plenty of games considering their age. They all have time and scope for significant improvement

Indeed - I find it pretty easy to forget how young these guys are in terms of their overall career. Jones in particular gets treated like one of our flagging veterans (by me at times I'll admit) at the ripe old age of 23 - he's probably still 3-4 years away from his peak. If he continues to improve and remain fit, he will easily surpass 250 games and has every chance of reaching 300 based on his current rate.

Morton and Bartram just get an excessively hard time regardless of their age I think.

Edited November 28, 201113 yr by Nasher

With Jones and Moloney leading the midfield we won't finish top 4, simple

whats wrong with Moloney? he polled well in the brownlow in a crap team and worse midfield, dont see how he can be critised so much personally.

whats wrong with Moloney? he polled well in the brownlow in a crap team and worse midfield, dont see how he can be critised so much personally.

Moloney is a flat track bully. Look at the games he polled in and the games he didn't. Goes missing with the slightest pressure.

Moloney is a flat track bully. Look at the games he polled in and the games he didn't. Goes missing with the slightest pressure.

People say this, but my memory is different, my biggest memory of Moloney in 2011 is during the 182, he literally pushed Jordie Mckenzie off his feet at a clearance because he was in his way, Moloney ran straight past/through a team mate to make a clearance late in the 3rd when the game was already blown past 120 points, this is what i remember. Very few players dominate when their team isnt playing well, and he isnt in a team that plays well often atm, only the best few in the league did this Judd ect. Moloney is great midfielder imo and would look super in a top 4 side.

People say this, but my memory is different, my biggest memory of Moloney in 2011 is during the 182, he literally pushed Jordie Mckenzie off his feet at a clearance because he was in his way, Moloney ran straight past/through a team mate to make a clearance late in the 3rd when the game was already blown past 120 points, this is what i remember. Very few players dominate when their team isnt playing well, and he isnt in a team that plays well often atm, only the best few in the league did this Judd ect. Moloney is great midfielder imo and would look super in a top 4 side.

186 was the game where he didn't touch the ball once for the first half then was subbed out. If someone bulldozed McKenzie to get a possession (is this really a good thing anyway?), it wasn't Moloney. Incidentally, Jordie McKenzie was the only one out of our 22 who showed any fight whatsoever during that game, so whoever flattened him should've been getting out of his way.

Very few players dominate when their team isnt playing well, and he isnt in a team that plays well often atm, only the best few in the league did this Judd ect. Moloney is great midfielder imo and would look super in a top 4 side.

Yes, I think it's a bit sad that people tend to judge individuals like Moloney and Jones on the team's performance... they would both fit comfortably into a top 4 side and hopefully the rest of our midfielders will take a step up to make that a reality in the next 2 to 3 years.

People say this, but my memory is different, my biggest memory of Moloney in 2011 is during the 182, he literally pushed Jordie Mckenzie off his feet at a clearance because he was in his way, Moloney ran straight past/through a team mate to make a clearance late in the 3rd when the game was already blown past 120 points, this is what i remember. Very few players dominate when their team isnt playing well, and he isnt in a team that plays well often atm, only the best few in the league did this Judd ect. Moloney is great midfielder imo and would look super in a top 4 side.

Er, don't know about that because of...

186 was the game where he didn't touch the ball once for the first half then was subbed out. If someone bulldozed McKenzie to get a possession (is this really a good thing anyway?), it wasn't Moloney. Incidentally, Jordie McKenzie was the only one out of our 22 who showed any fight whatsoever during that game, so whoever flattened him should've been getting out of his way.

Love Brent. And he was ill that day.

But he had an inconsistent 2011. He got 10 more touches when we won or narrowly lost than when we were blown away.

He went missing when we needed him the most.

And as you think of reasons for his absence at those times, ask yourself - are they excuses?

Moloney's 2011 was a vast improvement on what I thought he was capable of at the start of the season. He's still not an A-grade midfielder; rather, he is a B-grader capable of A-grade performances when the circumstances are in his favour.

As other have noted already, his output was drastically lower against the very best teams. The round 1 draw against Sydney was his only good game against decent opposition and he was positively ineffectual against most of the best sides. Jones was a different kettle of fish. His effort could not be faulted, even if his execution was lacking at times.

Moloney might have won the B&F and polled the most Brownlow votes but I rated Jones' year superior in most facets.

186 was the game where he didn't touch the ball once for the first half then was subbed out. If someone bulldozed McKenzie to get a possession (is this really a good thing anyway?), it wasn't Moloney. Incidentally, Jordie McKenzie was the only one out of our 22 who showed any fight whatsoever during that game, so whoever flattened him should've been getting out of his way.

Ok maybe may memory is [censored], still happened, and wasnt in a goof game for the MFC, never said jordie wasnt great in the Geelong game either, he was our best, but i was trying to show what Moloney will due for the ball and his team. better to knock a team mate over than to get caught

I'm really liking the current level of experimentation that seems to be happening. Not the "pseudo-experimentation" that went on in 2009 & 2010, but the genu-wine lateral-thinking type of experimentation that has guys like Bate & Garland running with the midfield, and being prepared accordingly. Gotch did us some big favours last year by giving games in the midfield at Casey to Petterd, Joel Macdonald & Bate, who all starred in the role, admittedly at a lower level.

And to me it's the midfield mix that's important, how the midfield functions as a unit, rather than their individual abilities. Bate, for example, will never be an A-grade mid, but may well become a key contributor to an A-grade midfield. I suppose the same applies to Moloney.

Under Neeld, it doesn't seem to be as much "where is this guy going to play his best footy?" as "where is this guy going to hurt the opposition the most?" He's trying to find the best overall team structure.

Under Neeld, it doesn't seem to be as much "where is this guy going to play his best footy?" as "where is this guy going to hurt the opposition the most?" He's trying to find the best overall team structure.

I certainly agree with this.

The 'best position' conundrum left us with about 10 HBFs in the 22 for the last ten years...

We will have to find a few more flanks on the half back as we Landers have variously said Blease, Grimes, Tapscott, Davey, Nicholson, Bennell, Garland, and Bail "play their best footy on the HBF."