Bartram!!!!!

[daisycutter 29,613]

There was a vey good article in the Age, can't find it now, about Kane Cornes and the why he is no longer the type of footballer clubs want. As they said Cornes is a Tagger and club's no longer need them they have just made the other midfielders more accountable and the successful clubs now require the top players to concentrate more on the defensive side of the game. They also said the Cornes can get plenty of the ball but he just doesn't hurt you when he does.

Bartram is an old fashioned hard at it type with little skill, certainly no more than Cornes, and plays a similar tagging role; if you were going to pick either who would you select? If there is no place for Cornes in today's game is there a place for Bartram?

I think there is more issues to the 'Cornes situation' at Port than the role of a tagger Robbie. Methinks there is quite some bad blood.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

pity nobody told Davey!

Thought the same.

I think there is more issues to the 'Cornes situation' at Port than the role of a tagger Robbie. Methinks there is quite some bad blood.

Absolutely. How does a former premiership, 3 times B & F and LY B & F winner with 220+ games including all gamers this year suddenly become so obsolete that he is no longer required?

Tackle count is not the measure of hardness. It usually means you are second to the ball.

Its one indicator of a preparedness to make the contest and to apply defensive presssure. If you are not tackling does that mean you are not even making the contest??

[Prof 15]

Check out what our 'Ball movement' coach has to say about Bartram. Either Mark Williams has to quit or several Demon posters must resign immediately. We need a 'clean out' after all.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Thought the same.

Absolutely. How does a former premiership, 3 times B & F and LY B & F winner with 220+ games including all gamers this year suddenly become so obsolete that he is no longer required?

Its one indicator of a preparedness to make the contest and to apply defensive presssure. If you are not tackling does that mean you are not even making the contest??

Cornes is the second highest player at the club and this is a lot of salary cap to pay for a tagger. I guess the issue is without the more skilled players around him now, are his deficiencies more glaringly obvious? If he no longer has a finisher to hand the ball of to does he now have to make decisions and do things he's incapable of?

With a player like Bartram you don't want him to have the ball say, coming out of defence, you want him to be handing it off to a Strauss, Davey or Blease but if he's the playmaker then you are in real strife.

As the article said, the other players have to be more mindful of their defensive side and they need to help shut down dangerous opposition players. As for Davey and taggers, well let's leave that one alone, he's almost as bad as Trapper was.

[jayceebee31 760]

I've been harping on about this for literally years now.

It's nothing new.

Keep harping because this bloke is going no where...

[tonatopia 278]

If all our players attacked the ball like bartram and jones, we would never lose a game by 100 points. The attitude of thOse two players is the cornerstone of our club. We need players who can get the hard ball.

Edited August 17, 2011 by tonatopia

[mmc 18]

Too slow and not skillfull enough it is time to go bartram.

Not skilful enough - probably. Too slow? Doubt it - he beat one of the most explosive midfielders in the competition on Sunday. Either he's not that slow (which I think is the case) or he can cover that deficiency pretty well.

[tonatopia 278]

Its true. Why do you think Viney loves those two players? Because he is and knows that they are tough as nails. Being able to get the hard ball is critical.

I bet your private school football days ended at the age of 13.

[DeeZee 7,385]

Its true. Why do you think Viney loves those two players? Because he is and knows that they are tough as nails. Being able to get the hard ball is critical.

I bet your private school football days ended at the age of 13.

If you have players that cant kick, you will never win a premiership.

[e25 5]

Its true. Why do you think Viney loves those two players? Because he is and knows that they are tough as nails. Being able to get the hard ball is critical.

I bet your private school football days ended at the age of 13.

Went to a public school and I still play today.

Nice reading of the tea leaves.

Winning the hard ball is critical, and all players will have that drilled into them.

Players like Bartram will be weeded out, because a hunger for the contest is worthless if you keep handing it back to the opposition on a platter.

It's worse than not winning it in the first place, because at least then your teammates aren't all out of position to defend.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Cornes is the second highest player at the club and this is a lot of salary cap to pay for a tagger. I guess the issue is without the more skilled players around him now, are his deficiencies more glaringly obvious? If he no longer has a finisher to hand the ball of to does he now have to make decisions and do things he's incapable of?

Given he won last years B&F at Port I would have thought the deficiencies are greater around him. While the politics has probably behins his fall, he is surrounded by a number of players who short step and disappear when the heat is on.

With a player like Bartram you don't want him to have the ball say, coming out of defence, you want him to be handing it off to a Strauss, Davey or Blease but if he's the playmaker then you are in real strife.

If Bartram is consistently doing that then the game plan is failing if the ball is not ending in the hands of better kickers like Strauss and Blease.

[tonatopia 278]

Went to a public school and I still play today.

Nice reading of the tea leaves.

Winning the hard ball is critical, and all players will have that drilled into them.

Players like Bartram will be weeded out, because a hunger for the contest is worthless if you keep handing it back to the opposition on a platter.

It's worse than not winning it in the first place, because at least then your teammates aren't all out of position to defend.

I believe the core the the belief structure of a football team lies in the hunger to win the contested football. Give me a team of determined warriors, and I will show you a finals contender.

ps. Bartram is not a forward.

pps. Jones is only 22

[e25 5]

I believe the core the the belief structure of a football team lies in the hunger to win the contested football. Give me a team of determined warriors, and I will show you a finals contender.

ps. Bartram is not a forward.

pps. Jones is only 22

Just because you say it does not make it so.

Bartram hinders his own teammates more than he helps them.

ps. Relevance?

pps. Relevance??

[hoopla 418]

Check out what our 'Ball movement' coach has to say about Bartram. Either Mark Williams has to quit or several Demon posters must resign immediately. We need a 'clean out' after all.

That's easy -- Bye bye Mark

[Friday 71]

here i was thinking the reason bartram got the football in the forward line was because he worked so hard to get into the space.

[daisycutter 29,613]

Poor old Barts

There is so much to like about Barts but you can't escape the fact that his disposal both in terms of decision making and execution is too often woeful. It just detracts too much from his good work and hurts momentum and the side. At his age it now seems unlikely he can change this part of his game enough to matter.

I wish it wasn't so but you have to face facts sometime. I think many people criticising Barts also have a lot of admiration for his good side, so its not all negative, just a balanced opinion.

I don't think he can stay best 22 into the future but I wouldn't delist/trade him. He can still be a good depth player

My 2c worth

[e25 5]

Yep, I do have a lot of admiration for the way Bartram goes about it, that's for certain, but you're trying to win games of football here and he does things that kill sides.

Last year, and even early on this year, his disposal AND his decision making seemed to both improve marginally, but it has regressed terribly.

It still wasn't at an acceptable standard anyway.

In the modern game, you can't afford to be playing a man short when in possession of the ball.

I also wouldn't delist him yet.

I'd listen to offers on trades, but wouldn't expect much.

In 2013 I'd like him gone.

[Robbie57 2,020]

He cant kick! Maybe just maybe a new coach will sort that out.

[e25 5]

He cant kick! Maybe just maybe a new coach will sort that out.

It's. Not. Just. His. Kicking.

He. Makes. Terrible. Decisions.

(plus the head coach is not a skills coach)

[nutbean 8,838]

I watch Jordie McKenzie play and his disposal by foot is just average however he seems to be aware of his limitations and places himself in the middle of the link and feeds out handballs over a short to middle distance. He rarely places himself on the end of the chain and if he does he limits himself to a 15-20m short kick that is safe. He is reliable over this distance and tends to find the low risk options.

When Barty places himself in the middle of the link - there is no problem but lets himself down when he is the end "outlet" either with a shot at goal like last Sunday or on more than a few occasions in the backline.

Edited August 18, 2011 by nutbean

[Robbie57 2,020]

It's. Not. Just. His. Kicking.

He. Makes. Terrible. Decisions.

(plus the head coach is not a skills coach)

Do I have to put a full stop after every word or type in capitals?

I agree with your sentiment except the head coach is responsible for every aspect of the team.

[beelzebub 23,353]

He cant kick! Maybe just maybe a new coach will sort that out.

For mine a lot of AFL players just cant kick. It amazes me tha tsurely a foundation skill of the game is notoriously missing from many who play it at its highest level.

Some players you can teach to kick better...but they invariably have the makings already, just some bad habits. Others , to be blunt just cant kick for sh!t and never will !!

Barty strikes me as the latter

Barty's best work is as a tagger.. that shis one trick.

[e25 5]

Both his ball drop and his kicking action are flawed.

[Robbie57 2,020]

Both his ball drop and his kicking action are flawed.

Both must be fixable for someone who can spend all day every week working on it.

A bit more of the Johhny Wilkinson attitude applied to it.

If I may go off topic there is really no excuse for any forward in 90 arc from the centre of the goals within the 50 from missing at all. Something that should be practiced until you do it in your sleep.

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

You'd think practice would solve it, but he's had 7 or so years on the list in which to work on it!

Thinking about it, I can question his commitment in a game, but I question his commitment to working on his deficiencies.

Sort it out Bartram!