Really? We've just elevated Viney and added Lyon.

I like Viney as interim coach, but it could have been West or Royal. We went for the ex-Melbourne player.

When you say the action probably won't be repeated, I don't share your confidence.

We're a bit like a royal family, the Dees. Limited gene pool at board level. All of the old warriors who won premierships have faded into old-aged/different era obscurity. The incest continues.

Instead of heading towards a premiership, we're heading towards large Adam's apples and subtle intellectual disability.

Now instead of the powerhouse that we were, we're just a bunch of harmless simpletons living in an irrelevant castle. The media still makes a fortune from us though, they love royalty.

What does it tell you about the quality of our asssistant coaches going forward when not one of them put their hand up for the job we gave it to TViney when he clearly doesnt want it

We have second rate coaches in all positions and imo has contributed to the poor on field performances we need to spend more and get quality Royal et al dont do it for me

We have a dysfunctional club, seemingly without a plan beyond getting early picks and there is a persistent gibbering array on this site who still think its just about sacking players.

Want to talk about accountability.......Look at the CEO and Football Manager. IMO They have presided over a complete dog's breakfast.... Oh hang on... we've extended those contracts!

Why not settle down for a bit, make a decent plan, work out who to coach it and what assistance they'd need and then review the last piece, the player group to get the right "cattle" to deliver it.

THAT would be MANAGEMENT

Edited August 9, 201114 yr by Retrospective

What does it tell you about the quality of our asssistant coaches going forward when not one of them put their hand up for the job we gave it to TViney when he clearly doesnt want it

We have second rate coaches in all positions and imo has contributed to the poor on field performances we need to spend more and get quality Royal et al dont do it for me

Not so sure that they didnt put their hands up or just were not asked.

What does it tell you about the quality of our asssistant coaches going forward when not one of them put their hand up for the job we gave it to TViney when he clearly doesnt want it

We have second rate coaches in all positions and imo has contributed to the poor on field performances we need to spend more and get quality Royal et al dont do it for me

Didn't Stynes ring Viney directly to ask him ?

Did he call an assistant coach with senior coach aspirations beforehand - before calling our recently appointed "football and player development role" T.Viney ?

How do you know we have "second rate" assistant coaches ? Does this mean Gold Coast, Port Adelaide, Adelaide, Richmond and Brisbane all have "second rate" assistant coaches too ?

And what do we make of Essendon's (mult-million $) assistant coaches after we defeated a more experienced Essendon side ? Are they second rate coaches because of it (See Wellman)?

Despite our poor and inconsistent performances and our need for improvement and consistency, as Leigh Matthews always states, good players make good coaches/

We lack:

• Leadership
  
• Experience
  
• Quality Midfield
  

Until we improve in these areas, the inconsistent nature and occassional poor results against superior opposition will continue.

And Collingwood, Hawthorn, Geelong, Carlton and yes West Coast, StKilda are streets ahead in each of the above 3 aspects.

Todd Viney is the correct choice as caretaker because he doesn't want it.

If you were close enough to the club to hear the true facts of those involved you would realise the press have distorted so much of the truth, you would have a different picture. The press take a possible issue, tell it and retell it until distortion is perceived to be the disastrous truth. Of course some issues to deal with but nothing like the press have painted. You are gullible, need a rest from the whole story and come back next year when those issues are well in hand. Fortunately there are better heads in charge of our club than your own spinning one and they are well worth trusting. As admired as Roos is even he can get caught up in in the hysteria of the press because that is what he is these days. I'll stick with our men, I trust them.

And you know this how?

Is this fact or assumption?

Did anyone realistically expect to win today. We were hoping for at a minimum a better performance than last week.

Jesus H. Christ if all you were hoping for was a better effort than what we served up against the Cats then we might as well pack up shop now. I too was disappointed in the comments by Stynes and also Green after the match, I understand Stynes is very very ill but surely you could not say you are "proud" of a 70+ point smashing. It's time to start putting the acid on not patting players on the back for the slop served up on Saturday. I was absolutely furious at times during the game because our players are just damn lazy. They refuse to run to create options, refuse to put a block or a shepherd on etc etc.

If you were close enough to the club to hear the true facts of those involved you would realise the press have distorted so much of the truth, you would have a different picture. The press take a possible issue, tell it and retell it until distortion is perceived to be the disastrous truth. Of course some issues to deal with but nothing like the press have painted. You are gullible, need a rest from the whole story and come back next year when those issues are well in hand. Fortunately there are better heads in charge of our club than your own spinning one and they are well worth trusting. As admired as Roos is even he can get caught up in in the hysteria of the press because that is what he is these days. I'll stick with our men, I trust them.

Well then if you know more please fill us rank and file in because after 47 years of dross "trust" doesn't cut it with me anymore.

Roos is absolutely right about Schwab and Connolly.

Schwab knows it from his management books. What doesn't matter is whether they are being maligned by the media or not. Our Football department was not working as evidenced by the fact the players got involved in the situation. They had an obligation to get it working and they failed.

I think Schwab has done a great job up to a point but the point at which we have failed (and Schwab) is to get the right team in the football department and they both must take responsibility for that decision.

Connolly is the GM of the Football department he is responsible to ensure it has the right mix of talent and skills to get the job done.

If he was performing that job then we wouldn't be in this mess. Blind Freddy can see we didn't have the right tactical skills on game day nor to we have the right mix of assistants.

Frankly we should not have to resort to Garry Lyon coming in to do Connolly's job, the director is just that an overseer to the GM and liason to the rest of the club and Board.

We should find an independant Football Director who is empowered to tell it like it is with a desire to do the job.

Schwab's failure has been to mistake loyalty to the club as being the same as ability to get the result. Whilst loyalty is fantastic attribute its not a substitute for talent.

That said I dont think we should replace Schwab as he has ability on the administration side which is hard to get but as an outsider I think he needs to rethink how he interacts with the FD.

So here is a wild idea: Paul Roos (or similar) as the Football Director, this would not require him to be in Melbourne full time. He has the ability to develop talent including coaching talent. Then we could go with a coach from the ranks of the emerging assistants (like Neeld).

Edited August 7, 201114 yr by Robbie57

Rubbish.

Wild speculation riddled with errors, culminating in a poor suggestion for going forward.

It's a shame there are so many posts like this.

And you know this how?

Is this fact or assumption?

Fact? Everything is assessment. I'm just an ordinary supporter, but do have a few friends who are well connected at the higher financial end. As other supporters will have found sometimes you do get invited along as a guest to a function and hear significant club people as the feature speaker reflecting on events. You also get the chance to talk informally with whoever you can grab hold of. Why wouldn't one take the chance to ask the questions you want addressed. So I have been fortunate lately to get this chance. Is my assessemtn FACT? It's the summation of what I have heard in speeches and a few one on one conversations. It blows one's mind when you see what is written in the press as if fact. Just be aware that Newspaper articles, never give sources, are never followed up , never address responses by the significant people who do reply to their article. Most journalists have moved on to another article. I personally am prepared to trust those who have the best interest of the club at heart. Journalists are purely self interested opinionated people. This is their livelyhood. They avoid accountability. They use extreme and colourful language to exaggerate their opinion. There is no other realm of life that is required to present information so unaccountable as the Journalist.

Edited August 8, 201114 yr by Harrisonrules

Fact? Everything is assessment. I'm just an ordinary supporter, but do have a few friends who are well connected at the higher financial end. As other supporters will have found sometimes you do get invited along as a guest to a function and hear significant club people as the feature speaker reflecting on events. You also get the chance to talk informally with whoever you can grab hold of. Why wouldn't one take the chance to ask the questions you want addressed. So I have been fortunate lately to get this chance. Is my assessemtn FACT? It's the summation of what I have heard in speeches and a few one on one conversations. It blows one's mind when you see what is written in the press as if fact. Just be aware that Newspaper articles, never give sources, are never followed up , never address responses by the significant people who do reply to their article. Most journalists have moved on to another article. I personally am prepared to trust those who have the best interest of the club at heart. Journalists are purely self interested opinionated people. This is their livelyhood. They avoid accountability. They use extreme and colourful language to exaggerate their opinion. There is no other realm of life that is required to present information so unaccountable as the Journalist.

Hmmm..

Well, based on your 'humble opinion', I do hope Garry can alternate between these behaviours and those that support club objectives.

Roos is absolutely right about Schwab and Connolly.

Schwab knows it from his management books. What doesn't matter is whether they are being maligned by the media or not. Our Football department was not working as evidenced by the fact the players got involved in the situation. They had an obligation to get it working and they failed.

I think Schwab has done a great job up to a point but the point at which we have failed (and Schwab) is to get the right team in the football department and they both must take responsibility for that decision.

Connolly is the GM of the Football department he is responsible to ensure it has the right mix of talent and skills to get the job done.

If he was performing that job then we wouldn't be in this mess. Blind Freddy can see we didn't have the right tactical skills on game day nor to we have the right mix of assistants.

Frankly we should not have to resort to Garry Lyon coming in to do Connolly's job, the director is just that an overseer to the GM and liason to the rest of the club and Board.

We should find an independant Football Director who is empowered to tell it like it is with a desire to do the job.

Schwab's failure has been to mistake loyalty to the club as being the same as ability to get the result. Whilst loyalty is fantastic attribute its not a substitute for talent.

That said I dont think we should replace Schwab as he has ability on the administration side which is hard to get but as an outsider I think he needs to rethink how he interacts with the FD.

So here is a wild idea: Paul Roos (or similar) as the Football Director, this would not require him to be in Melbourne full time. He has the ability to develop talent including coaching talent. Then we could go with a coach from the ranks of the emerging assistants (like Neeld).

A simple point to start with would be for GL to take a drive down to Geelong - get a copy of Brian Cook's and Neil Balme's Job Descriptions and them compare them with the roles being undertaken, or supposed to be undertaken , by CS & CC. We know the Geeelong model works - why is it different to ours ?

Fact? Everything is assessment. I'm just an ordinary supporter, but do have a few friends who are well connected at the higher financial end. As other supporters will have found sometimes you do get invited along as a guest to a function and hear significant club people as the feature speaker reflecting on events. You also get the chance to talk informally with whoever you can grab hold of. Why wouldn't one take the chance to ask the questions you want addressed. So I have been fortunate lately to get this chance. Is my assessemtn FACT? It's the summation of what I have heard in speeches and a few one on one conversations. It blows one's mind when you see what is written in the press as if fact. Just be aware that Newspaper articles, never give sources, are never followed up , never address responses by the significant people who do reply to their article. Most journalists have moved on to another article. I personally am prepared to trust those who have the best interest of the club at heart. Journalists are purely self interested opinionated people. This is their livelyhood. They avoid accountability. They use extreme and colourful language to exaggerate their opinion. There is no other realm of life that is required to present information so unaccountable as the Journalist.

So what you're saying is you have gleaned your information from some functions you've attended as a guest, talking to people at the club, much the same way that journalists do. I've attended several Breakfasts with both Cam Schwab, Chris Connolly and John Poulakakis and I've asked questions, I've spoken to players and influential people too but I've never nor will I ever expect to be told the full story. Terri Stynes always looks me up in the Legends area to see how I'm going at home games and she told me recently that there were some exciting developments taking pace but she couldn't tell me what they were, I certainly didn't press it I just wish you were there, you would have got the storey wouldn't you?

They obviously trust you more than any one else, wow.

You know people that know people, that's always good.

Edited August 8, 201114 yr by RobbieF

Brian Cook would sort the MFC out, i have no doubt.

i wonder if he would like another challenge?

And that's what we are, a challenge with huge potential if handled the right way.

Completely ignorant OP and subsequent posts -- Lyon is filling the role of Football Director, that is outside either of Schwab or Connolly's roles, and is a very much required role.

Sorry e25. Run by me what a footy director does that a CEO and a footy operations manager dont do... If this is Jimmys way of saying I smell a rat then we all should get it...really

Roos might well be correct, but it's not necessarily that they can't trust these two in Connolly and Schwab. IMO it's because of the void left as a result of inaction by the MFC Board. It would be better run if the Football Director position was filled by someone soley in the role as Football Director.

The failure to appoint a Football Director to the Board in the last 8-9 months since Andrew Leoncelli stepped down his role has contributed to all this 'mess' and internal bickering. IMO this is the boards doing. That Schwab and Connolly may have in some way job shared this role whilst neglecting their own (not pay full attention to their own jobs) has contributed, and it may have been highlighted by the Andrew's Report. As a result, Jimmy put his hand up to fulfil the role as Football Director as well as President as recognition that the failure to appoint someone in this important role was taking it's toll in other departments.

How the board had let it come to this, where an unfortunately ill - but admittedly part time club legend was trying to fulfil two roles at once with the help of Don McLardy, is beyond me (as much as I admire Stynes for his 'whatever it takes' attitude). Stynes' recognition by asking G.Lyon for assistance in this role and recognising he won't be able to address the needs of the club in his capacity, is a direct result of letting this matter fester over a long period and a failure to appoint someone for the position since last December.

A more professionally run club, "a great club", would have found a replacement for the Football Director to the board in a heart beat. It's our own club's doing.

What simply needs to be done is that those in the positions they are appointed in, should do their job. And a fulltime Football Director to the Board be found and appointed. And any internal hiccups, or what people's roles are - need to be reinforced and ironed out. These should be the main objectives in the short term. Other matters may include player matters (uncontracted; concerns) and list management updates for the Board.

And that our Board be more decisive and prudent in Club communication and functionality.

Much of what you say here may be correct, HT.

But at the end of the day - a non-executive director is just that - a non executive....... and if the "right" executive team in place, he shouldn't have much to do from one season to the next.

With Cook and Balme in charge, I'm not sure that the wheels would fall off at Geelong if their Football Director ( is it still Gareth Andrews ?) missed a few Board meetings.

Roos is absolutely right about Schwab and Connolly.

Schwab knows it from his management books. What doesn't matter is whether they are being maligned by the media or not. Our Football department was not working as evidenced by the fact the players got involved in the situation. They had an obligation to get it working and they failed.

I think Schwab has done a great job up to a point but the point at which we have failed (and Schwab) is to get the right team in the football department and they both must take responsibility for that decision.

Connolly is the GM of the Football department he is responsible to ensure it has the right mix of talent and skills to get the job done.

If he was performing that job then we wouldn't be in this mess.

Frankly we should not have to resort to Garry Lyon coming in to do Connolly's job, the director is just that an overseer to the GM and liason to the rest of the club and Board.

None of us know the truth - perhaps a read of the Andrews Report might help.On the branding side, I agree that Schwab appears to have done a good job

But its been a long time since a club blew up because of a breakdown in relations between the players and the CEO and the Operations Mgr. The Board is ultimately responsible - but the core of its failing must surely be in the selection of the comrades from Freo - particularly in the appointment of a frustrated coach as its Operations Manager.

Much of what you say here may be correct, HT.

But at the end of the day - a non-executive director is just that - a non executive....... and if the "right" executive team in place, he shouldn't have much to do from one season to the next.

With Cook and Balme in charge, I'm not sure that the wheels would fall off at Geelong if their Football Director ( is it still Gareth Andrews ?) missed a few Board meetings.

None of us know the truth - perhaps a read of the Andrews Report might help.On the branding side, I agree that Schwab appears to have done a good job

But its been a long time since a club blew up because of a breakdown in relations between the players and the CEO and the Operations Mgr. The Board is ultimately responsible - but the core of its failing must surely be in the selection of the comrades from Freo - particularly in the appointment of a frustrated coach as its Operations Manager.

I agree with pretty much all you say here.

I think Bailey needed to go anyway, and I'm content that it's the right decision, but I think the board dropped the ball and that led to the situation we faced.

Letting Stynes assume the role of Football Director was a bad decision, and despite all good intentions, he just clearly wasn't up to it.

The situation with Bailey, and Schwab & Connolly butting heads was not exactly ideal, but it could have been at least functional.

With no Football Director to ensure the board was keeping tabs on the warring parties, and to pull them into line, the issues were exacerbated.

Eventually to the point where a change was needed, and I think the coach was the right decision of the 2.

Ultimately, I think it could have been avoided.

It's a mistake. They happen.

What's really important is how all parts of the club learn and move forward from this.

And unless something changes drastically, I get the feeling Connolly will get moved on.

It won't be anything personal, but I feel that they will soon realise he doesn't possess the skillset to occupy his role.

None of us know the truth

In the past 10 days I've heard and read so many conflicting versions of what's going on, many of which simply beggar belief, that I'm convinced of this one statement. The only way we have of knowing whether Paul Roos, Caro Wilson, Mike Sheahan or anyone else is right, is if the whole truth comes out and I doubt that it ever will.

I have friends who support other clubs which were in disarray not that long ago and in which much the same general scenario was occurring. This time last year the Bombers were bleeding. They regrouped, appointed a new coach and assistants and they're now on the brink of making the finals, albeit with a list of players IMO inferior to that of Melbourne.

I don't deny that there aren't problems within the club but I have a feeling that the current blow up is the blow up we had to have.

In particular, I cringed at reports on the morning of the Geelong game that the club was on the brink of reappointing Dean Bailey for another year or two. IMO such a decision was not substantiated by the team's on field performances in 2011. We might have been headed towards a better win/loss record than 2010 but that was thanks only to a better draw and the introduction of GCS. We have actually gone backwards and, in that respect, the responsibility rests with the coach, the players and the football department.

The bottom line is that we go into the future knowing that the structure of the club is being assessed, the football department is under scrutiny and that a new coach and most likely, a number of assistants and support staff are to be appointed. In football clubs when you have a failure of direction, a new broom is often a marvelous tonic.

The Board also needs to examine the source of the conflicting information being leaked to the media. Is it coming from within the Board itself, from those employed by the club or by those from outside who have some inside knowledge? People for instance, who have axes to grind with the existing Board or current employees. I raise this not because there is a need to shoot messengers but to deal with those who have mischievously spread misinformation in order to further destabilise the club.

So what you're saying is you have gleaned your information from some functions you've attended as a guest, talking to people at the club, much the same way that journalists do. I've attended several Breakfasts with both Cam Schwab, Chris Connolly and John Poulakakis and I've asked questions, I've spoken to players and influential people too but I've never nor will I ever expect to be told the full story. Terri Stynes always looks me up in the Legends area to see how I'm going at home games and she told me recently that there were some exciting developments taking pace but she couldn't tell me what they were, I certainly didn't press it I just wish you were there, you would have got the storey wouldn't you?

They obviously trust you more than any one else, wow.

You know people that know people, that's always good.

Do I detect a cynic in our midst. In broad terms you have three options. Beleive what you hear. Assess what you hear. Reject what you hear. I have listened to people and press. I have made my assessment. I place it against the previous knowledge I have. ie. the history of the press, and the achievements of this board. And I beleive we remain in a sound position perhaps the best position I can remember (60 year member). I tried to give an honest answer to how I formed my opinion, but you don't like that and turn it into some belittling competative game. I'm concerned that the negative attitude generated from the press will erode much of the good will that has been growing in the club. I don't believe the press have been accurate and am prepared to stand by our board. You have an opportunity to do the same. Dam well do it rather than trying to pull down your own fellow members.

..... but I have a feeling that the current blow up is the blow up we had to have.

The bottom line is that we go into the future knowing that the structure of the club is being assessed, the football department is under scrutiny and that a new coach and most likely, a number of assistants and support staff are to be appointed. In football clubs when you have a failure of direction, a new broom is often a marvelous tonic.

The Board also needs to examine the source of the conflicting information being leaked to the media....

I'd like to think that you are right .... and that we'll look back at this mess as a positive turning point...

Whether or not we do ultimately depends on the response of the players . How many of our young stars - who have seen two admired mentors knifed in less than 12 months - McDonald and Bailey- will take advantage of the GWS free agency window available to them in a few weeks time?

Somehow we have to hold the players together through these uncertain times to give the "tonic" a chance to work.

Edited August 9, 201114 yr by hoopla

I don't deny that there aren't problems within the club but I have a feeling that the current blow up is the blow up we had to have.

Have the same feeling.

Somehow we have to hold the players together through these uncertain times to give the "tonic" a chance to work.

Agree. Uncertain times and why we need cool prudent heads to prevail.

CS and the club have communicated to us for 18 months that the work that has been done to provide a good working environment for the players to excel in, central to Melbourne, the excitement of a young list, new facilities, etc should be major factors in retaining our good players and wanting to represent the Mfc. Whilst much of this may have been unravelling internally, it needs to be addressed and reinforced over the next 4 weeks. Hopefully a good finish to the season will reinforce and instill a positive vibe for pre-season and 2012.

Do I detect a cynic in our midst. In broad terms you have three options. Beleive what you hear. Assess what you hear. Reject what you hear. I have listened to people and press. I have made my assessment. I place it against the previous knowledge I have. ie. the history of the press, and the achievements of this board. And I beleive we remain in a sound position perhaps the best position I can remember (60 year member). I tried to give an honest answer to how I formed my opinion, but you don't like that and turn it into some belittling competative game. I'm concerned that the negative attitude generated from the press will erode much of the good will that has been growing in the club. I don't believe the press have been accurate and am prepared to stand by our board. You have an opportunity to do the same. Dam well do it rather than trying to pull down your own fellow members.

I have said on this board, recently, that it is the older members that have allowed this situation to arise, we've allowed the club to roll on year after year without questing the board or the management, always hoping that they will improve the situation, eventually, maybe the next year. I can recall thinking to myself some years ago around the both our board and management was being run by ex players from the 50's and 60's just like Collingwoods was. They changed there,s but we continued on with our 50's thinking. Some of their efforts weren't all that good but they finished up with McGuire and the rest is history.

We fell behind every club because we had faith in the board and eternal hope that they would one day get it right well the simple fact is we were wrong, they didn't. When Jimmy came along a lot of us tipped a serious amount of cash in to the club and trusted Jim to solve the problem, well Jim got sick and it was left to others to pick up the slack, which they haven't, by the looks of it. I'm not going to sit back and let it slide anymore I'm over having blind faith in the board, look where that's got us? If the club wants more cash from me they need to show they are spending it wisely and not just pissing it up against the wall.

The stories that have come out are not all that wrong and apart from a lame attempt by Don McLardy to deny the proposed sacking have a certain element of truth to them. If you just want to sit back like you have for the last 60 years then good for you. As I said it's been the lethargy of the older members that have allowed this to happen in the first place.

Btw I sent you a PM to counter your initial outburst.

I have said on this board, recently, that it is the older members that have allowed this situation to arise, we've allowed the club to roll on year after year without questing the board or the management, always hoping that they will improve the situation, eventually, maybe the next year. I can recall thinking to myself some years ago around the both our board and management was being run by ex players from the 50's and 60's just like Collingwoods was. They changed there,s but we continued on with our 50's thinking. Some of their efforts weren't all that good but they finished up with McGuire and the rest is history.

We fell behind every club because we had faith in the board and eternal hope that they would one day get it right well the simple fact is we were wrong, they didn't. When Jimmy came along a lot of us tipped a serious amount of cash in to the club and trusted Jim to solve the problem, well Jim got sick and it was left to others to pick up the slack, which they haven't, by the looks of it. I'm not going to sit back and let it slide anymore I'm over having blind faith in the board, look where that's got us? If the club wants more cash from me they need to show they are spending it wisely and not just pissing it up against the wall.

The stories that have come out are not all that wrong and apart from a lame attempt by Don McLardy to deny the proposed sacking have a certain element of truth to them. If you just want to sit back like you have for the last 60 years then good for you. As I said it's been the lethargy of the older members that have allowed this to happen in the first place.

Btw I sent you a PM to counter your initial outburst.

I agree Robbief but no more for me I am bitching loud and clear.

After Geelong I sent back my scarf.

I have written 3 letters to different people at the club this year.

I now question everything.

Essendon, Carlton members [censored] big time and have ever since I can remember.

The result they get results.

It is put up or shut up time!

Edited August 9, 201114 yr by old dee

I have said on this board, recently, that it is the older members that have allowed this situation to arise, we've allowed the club to roll on year after year without questing the board or the management, always hoping that they will improve the situation, eventually, maybe the next year. I can recall thinking to myself some years ago around the both our board and management was being run by ex players from the 50's and 60's just like Collingwoods was. They changed there,s but we continued on with our 50's thinking. Some of their efforts weren't all that good but they finished up with McGuire and the rest is history.

We fell behind every club because we had faith in the board and eternal hope that they would one day get it right well the simple fact is we were wrong, they didn't. When Jimmy came along a lot of us tipped a serious amount of cash in to the club and trusted Jim to solve the problem, well Jim got sick and it was left to others to pick up the slack, which they haven't, by the looks of it. I'm not going to sit back and let it slide anymore I'm over having blind faith in the board, look where that's got us? If the club wants more cash from me they need to show they are spending it wisely and not just pissing it up against the wall.

The stories that have come out are not all that wrong and apart from a lame attempt by Don McLardy to deny the proposed sacking have a certain element of truth to them. If you just want to sit back like you have for the last 60 years then good for you. As I said it's been the lethargy of the older members that have allowed this to happen in the first place.

Btw I sent you a PM to counter your initial outburst.

You're happy with what you are doing so do whatever you want. If you want to blame we old buggers go for it if that makes you happy. You don't sound like a happy man, but then what would an old bugger know.