Tom Scully

[John Crow Batty 8,271]

I'm going to do something anyone should never do - apologise for my post before I put it up! I'm tired, angry, overworked, irritable....

Did anyone read the article in The Age this morning (Wednesday 27) which discussed how Geelong got Christensen, Duncan and Vardy in one move? Yes, there was a touch of luck, but it was also good recruiting knowledge etc. What is my point? Simple - one top draft pick doesn't always get better results than lower draft picks (James Hird anyone?). I am not picking on TS at all, far from it, and good luck to him whatever he does - just asking people to keep a bit of perspective in their discussions - there are other issues important to MFC to discuss!

I think I feel a bit better now!

Sometimes I think the draft horse show is a conspiracy by successful clubs knowing full well that they have no chance at prime picks to manipulate the system to hide who they really wan't to draft and building up other players hoping dupe clubs like us fall for it. So far only Jack Trengove is living up to prime draft pick status for us. Or else we are unlucky.

Edited July 27, 2011 by america de cali

[Viney12 196]

Has any one thought that GWS may be regretting their haste? Nah! I'm sure he'll make a full recovery after a post season rest.

Yeah ok, ignore the points of how flimsy your theory sounds and just make another silly point

So will you be grumbling when Scully and Trengove stand on the podium and lift our 13th cup?

Nah, didn't think so......

[John Crow Batty 8,271]

Yeah ok, ignore the points of how flimsy your theory sounds and just make another silly point

So will you be grumbling when Scully and Trengove stand on the podium and lift our 13th cup?

Nah, didn't think so......

What are you talking about?

[nutbean 8,837]

Has any one thought that GWS may be regretting their haste? Nah! I'm sure he'll make a full recovery after a post season rest.

"It would be very, very foolish to sign up four or five or three players on huge contracts and they could end up with a life-threatening injury and you have wasted so much money in your salary cap," Sheedy said.

"Things happen and you just got to be smart about that and you know it's very awkward to sign up players on big contracts right now."

Edited July 27, 2011 by nutbean

[John Crow Batty 8,271]

"It would be very, very foolish to sign up four or five or three players on huge contracts and they could end up with a life-threatening injury and you have wasted so much money in your salary cap," Sheedy said.

Yes it is. But I doubt TS will choke on his knee.

[Hardnut 327]

Sometimes I think the draft horse show is a conspiracy by successful clubs knowing full well that they have no chance at prime picks to manipulate the system to hide who they really wan't to draft and building up other players hoping dupe clubs like us fall for it. So far only Jack Trengove is living up to prime draft pick status for us. Or else we are unlucky.

Understand your argument america, but Geelong were approached by other clubs who couldn't resolve their trade dilemmas, according to the article.

[Slartibartfast 15,872]

And that's fair enough.

I was banned for holding my view, which is the right of the site owners I guess.

You were NOT banned for holding the view, you were banned for not adhering to the site owners request that Tom not be called a liar.

The fact is that we do not know what the situation is and calling Tom a liar is a serious accusation, not a fact. Demonland does not want to be part of that accusation.

It's pretty simple really.

[nutbean 8,837]

Sometimes I think the draft horse show is a conspiracy by successful clubs knowing full well that they have no chance at prime picks to manipulate the system to hide who they really wan't to draft and building up other players hoping dupe clubs like us fall for it. So far only Jack Trengove is living up to prime draft pick status for us. Or else we are unlucky.

This is a whoollllee different and new conspiracy theory.

Edited July 27, 2011 by nutbean

[John Crow Batty 8,271]

This is a whoollllee different and new conspiracy theory.

Yes, this is a conspiracy theory. I'm sure many who curse our luck at all the fine specimens this club has recruited over the past several decades perhaps secretly hope it really was that way.

Edited July 27, 2011 by america de cali

[nutbean 8,837]

Yes, this is a conspiracy theory and not based on impeccable sources. I'm sure many who curse our luck at all the fine specimens this club has recruited over the past several decades perhaps secretly hope it really was that way.

I think others have gone on here and stated various other alternatives which I would prefer to explore - pointing to our culture, lack of resources to develop players properly, and how we have developed players even with our previously limited resources.

RR put it nicely that we develop players to a certain level and then they smash their heads on a glass ceiling. Our current malaise in leadership is obvious ( and I dont necessarily equate leadership with pure talent) but we do need to question why we have had so few players take the next step.

Edited July 27, 2011 by nutbean

[beelzebub 22,244]

The funny thing about Conspiracy and associated Theories, is that Conspiracies do indeed exist. B) Just that it can get a bit Boy and Wolf !!

[Guest hangon007]

Sometimes I think the draft horse show is a conspiracy by successful clubs knowing full well that they have no chance at prime picks to manipulate the system to hide who they really wan't to draft and building up other players hoping dupe clubs like us fall for it. So far only Jack Trengove is living up to prime draft pick status for us. Or else we are unlucky.

You dont need the clubs to do that ... the public do it by themselves. The public MASSIVELY over rate early draft picks.

However, where your conspiracy falls over is football department development plays a huge part in a recruits development. Now here is the crunch ... the more $$$$$$$$$ you spend the higher the probability you are to get a player to reach peak performance. Everything else mentioneed is pure media fodder.

Edited July 27, 2011 by hangon007

[Guest hangon007]

Hypothetically speaking ... yes it makes perfect sense. If you keep an absolute stone cold poker face until such time as the 'decision' is made. And yes player agents and their clients do it all the time. In many sports. All over the world.

Again, not speaking about Tom Scully, but some of you need to disabused of this notion that sportspeople never lie.

Have a look at athletics, cycling, boxing, whatever sport you like. From Marion Jones to Floyd Landis.

Why can't we conceive that our precious footballers are beyond such human folly?

They are human beings with faults. Just like you and me!

With all due respects I was discussing TOM ... Nothing that has happened since last October has lead me to believe he has not told anything but 100% of the truth. If anything it full supports what I was told last November regarding Tom character.

Now in regards to sports management outlets, ok I hear what you are saying. However, I think Velocity have done a sensational job for the client irrespective of the outcome to this date.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I meant from those spitting venom at Scully for "already going". When he signs for Melbourne, they should feel ashamed

They know how good Scully will be, they hold the whip hand (Velocity), they can make GWS wait and sweat and increase their bidding. It would be insane to sign on the spot

In this scenario, they are just using us to elevate the price, knowing we can't match them without the 3rd party payments at our disposal.

If there playing that game,,,, there seems no point for us other than to pushup his GWS contract price,,, thus getting us a better compensation settlement. Or we lose other players and cap room going forward.

[Guest hangon007]

In this scenario, they are just using us to elevate the price, knowing we can't match them without the 3rd party payments at our disposal.

If there playing that game,,,, there seems no point for us other than to pushup his GWS contract price,,, thus getting us a better compensation settlement. Or we lose other players and cap room going forward.

You are making a massive, massive assumption .... Its ALL about the MONEY. B)

[John Crow Batty 8,271]

Im sure you cant write about fingering dyke's on this website, can you?

Don't twist things around. Do you want to get me suspended again?

[Range Rover 1,935]

With all due respects I was discussing TOM ... Nothing that has happened since last October has lead me to believe he has not told anything but 100% of the truth. If anything it full supports what I was told last November regarding Tom character.

Now in regards to sports management outlets, ok I hear what you are saying. However, I think Velocity have done a sensational job for the client irrespective of the outcome to this date.

Why do you think so?

[John Crow Batty 8,271]

Now in regards to sports management outlets, ok I hear what you are saying. However, I think Velocity have done a sensational job for the client irrespective of the outcome to this date.

And sucked blood out of our club like vampires they are.

[Hardnut 327]

I see youre an advocate of stupidity....fair enough

I like your humour, but keep it in context - this situation is being blown out of proportion - the club (team) is bigger than the individual. At the moment we have two top 'teams' in the competition - I don't think either of them have individuals paid out of proportion to the rest. (I am obviously open to correction on this point if someone knows more about salaries than I do.)

[Guest hangon007]

I dont really care if he leaves now, knowing we will recieve the two compensation first round picks as weel as have the cash to lure another already proven player.

Sorry a myth ... depends where he goes & how he gets there. You are making an assumption that its GWS via the un-contracted compensation scenario.

[Guest hangon007]

I like your humour, but keep it in context - this situation is being blown out of proportion - the club (team) is bigger than the individual. At the moment we have two top 'teams' in the competition - I don't think either of them have individuals paid out of proportion to the rest. (I am obviously open to correction on this point if someone knows more about salaries than I do.)

Generally speaking if you take high first round draft picks normally their first contract after they come out of the fixed AFL standard agreement, have a high level of "blue sky" all clubs factor in "blue sky." Many times this is even done if you extend the standard 2 year deal to 3. The 3rd year will have a health increase agreed early that includes "blue sky".

Ultimately its all about where you think the player will end up in peak performance .... not where he actually is at on current performance. However, the better you perform the easier it is for your management to argue for more "blue sky". I should add one of the very reasons this is done is due to the 92.5% TPP rules, most clubs these days that receive early first round draft picks have a heavy bias towards young sides.

Edited July 27, 2011 by hangon007

[Guest hangon007]

Why do you think so?

Without saying toooooo much. Time is a very, very valuable tool placed in the right hands.

What people are not factoring in is the age of their client and what you are effectively "asking" him to do .... make a decision that will effect his whole AFL football career. Sorry most 19YO's never, never have to make the 1 million dollars call at that age.

[Guest hangon007]

And sucked blood out of our club like vampires they are.

Well some would argue they are professional negotiators that act in the best interest of their clients, exactly what they are contracted to do. Like it or lump it ... they are selling an "asset" in a modern day business of AFL football. However, that asset is a HUMAN BEING.

Edited July 27, 2011 by hangon007

[Hardnut 327]

Generally speaking if you take high first round draft picks normally their first contract after they come out of the fixed AFL standard agreement, have a high level of "blue sky" all clubs factor in "blue sky." Many times this is even done if you extend the standard 2 year deal to 3. The 3rd year will have a health increase agreed early that includes "blue sky".

Ultimately its all about where you think the player will end up in peak performance .... not where he actually is at on current performance. However, the better you perform the easier it is for your management to argue for more "blue sky". I should add one of the very reasons this is done is due to the 92.5% TPP rules, most clubs these days that receive early first round draft picks have a heavy bias towards young sides.

I am well aware of front and back loaded salaries and the like for list management purposes. I made two original points.

First, The Age article today highlighted why clubs do not need to pay excessive amounts for an individual player given the availability of talented lower draft status players.

Second, mature and proven players at some clubs have chosen to play for lower payments in order to keep the 'team' together.

Smart list management is an important component of ongoing successful clubs.

[John Crow Batty 8,271]

Well some would argue they are professional negotiators that act in the best interest of their clients, exactly what they are contracted to do. Like it or lump it ... they are selling an "asset" in a modern day business of AFL football. However, that asset is a HUMAN BEING.

I offer 4 & 20 shekel's.

Edited July 27, 2011 by america de cali