I think we were flat after consecutive 6 day breaks.

Weak excuse, but I think that's the reason.

I also think this is a weak excuse. There a some professional sports that require players to back up in shorter tme frames. Different fitness requirements but they do back up

Yes, we are all steamed up after losing another winnable game at Etihad, with some familiar weaknesses on display. Fellow demonlanders, it really is hard to stick tough sometimes after 45+ years of watching the same patterns emerge. However, after a good breakfast, a match review with my Demon-loving family, and a kick of the footy with my boys, I would like to give some measured response to last night. The last 20 minutes was unforgivable, but apart from that period alone:

At times our football was breath-taking. Our movement out of defence caught the Doggies repeatedly by surprise. Frawley, River, Strauss, Nicho etc... were not terrible and our loss does not sit with them.

Our running through the corridr (or at least at the edge of the centre square) was first class at times with a great overlap pattern.

We got it into forward 50 enough times to win the game.

We equalled thier tackles, or near enough.

Contested possession was even

we blooded another first-gamer (although it was probably the wrong night to do it)

It was only as the Doggies applied pressure in a small space that we began that horrible pattern of 6-8 handballs in close to turn it over, and because we had all spread forward, we got burned bad on the turnover. Our stoppage play shows deficiencies against mature, skillful midfields (Pies, Hawks, Blues and now dogs). Improvement will come after another pre-season, and 2013 should be the year when the bodies are amture enough to demonstrate skill in tight spaces.

Our kicking for goal is an official worry now. We are missing 5-10 easy shots every week. All the great work done through defence and the midfield is being ruined by forwards either taking it too easy, not concentrating, or lacking simple skills at important times.

If anyone remembers the years that Barassi was at Melbourne, he almost killed Flower's career. He was played everywhere because there were few with his skill, poise and courage in the team. I feel the same is being done to Watts. If he plays all over the ground to cover gaps, his forward maturity will slow down and it is now our forward line that is our main lack. I am a fan of the way Bailey has stuck to his development plan but think he is holding Watts back from developing the skills required for a key forward.

The roller coaster is frustrating, but when we do play well it is great footy. Our problems ar fixable and depend on a strong, injury-free preseason leading into 2012. This will prove to me whether the team that is emerging is as good as the early 90's team that could have/should have won a flag.

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I disagree about Watts. He has been played all over the place to build his confidence and get his hands on the ball in traffic, rather than plug gaps. If he continues this rate of improvement his form will demand the key forward positions. Cook is probably the player being groomed for FF. Watts creativity, versatility and mobility would be wasted as a pure spearhead. He will provide opportunities for others as well as kick his own goals. I can't fault the way they have nurtured his development. They played him when many thought he probably didn't deserve a game (remember all those here who said he played like a girl), but gave him the chance to build his game. And aren't we glad they did.

Multiple 6 days breaks do catch up with you. It represents part of the reason we lost and by so much. Also look at the Tigers yesterday, it seems both teams had a hangover from the 'hype' of last week.

The team is still at least 12 months away from serious finals contention, maybe more if we don’t learn how to shut teams down when they are flying.

I aint going anywhere. i want to witness this club become mean.

I gave been waiting 40 years any chance this decade?

The problem is we only have 2 -3 mean players.

I also think this is a weak excuse. There a some professional sports that require players to back up in shorter tme frames. Different fitness requirements but they do back up

As well we are a team of young guys if we had a ageing team I would accept this excuse.

But not from a bunch of 20 year olds

stick with it everyone ... its bloody hard but we need stay patient. the signs are there.

EGD you say that as if we have another option!

Sorry to be so negative but I have seen "the signs are there" a quite a few time.

The team is developing. We are out of childhood and into puberty.

I remember puberty. They were turbulent times. I won't go into detail.

The team's collective voice is breaking and it has acne. It can look and sound clumsy but it is getting bigger and stronger.

Great analogy.

Great analogy.

Melbourne's young midfield against sides with a developed, mature midfield is like Tomic against Djokovic or Nadal. All the talent, shots and skill, but not the experience to handle the pressure or patience to play the right shots at the right time.

One day in the near future Melbourne's time will come, just like Tomic's.

Look at Essendon Tonight....That is the sort of attitude we MUST find....Bottom line.

Where has Essendons attitude been for a month? Young sides cannot find that week in week out its a simple fact.

A couple of posters are on the money. Our class is our youth. Unfortunately, they won't be up to the task every week. Other than Moloney our senior players don't win enough contested ball, so when the younger players are having a downer the side collectively becomes brittle. We will remain inconsistent for the remainder of the year and next, although the gap between our best and worst should keep narrowing.

And if we'd put as much planning and preparation into countering their strengths & exploiting their weaknesses as well as they did, and if we'd thought as much about getting the match-ups & positions right as they did, and had worked out what we might need to change during the game if we found it getting away from us ... it would have made no difference at all?

The Bombers beat Geelong because they planned & prepared so well, having inside knowledge about the Cats' strengths & weaknesses (and surprise surprise, those brilliant rebounding Cat defenders don't like being manned up - who would have thought?)

If a strategy has been worked out that stands a fair chance of succeeding, it's easy for the players to believe that their strategy will make them win. If they believe it will make them win, they will throw everything into it. That's how the Bombers played.

If the other team's strategy has covered all our strengths, and the harder we try the worse it gets ... then what the hell do we do now? That's how we played.

Sorry, I just can't accept that the apparent consensus that all we have to do is wait, nothing needs to change. If nothing changes, we'll top out at 6th in 2014 if we're lucky.

Pretty much spot on Akum.

I think we were flat after consecutive 6 day breaks.

Weak excuse, but I think that's the reason.

Actually agree with you on something here Artie, I said in the previous "changes for next week" thread that we should think about resting some of the young guys, but most thought we could make it to the bye, then I said that I was surprised there was only 1 change, not because of form but because of freshness, and that even though Dunn, Bate, Warnock etc may not be in our future plans they would have been handy as fresh, rested, experienced players, but that idea was shot down too...

3 games in 13 or so days and only 1 change, for mine the selection committee got it wrong

EGD you say that as if we have another option!

Sorry to be so negative but I have seen "the signs are there" a quite a few time.

Fair enough old dee i understand the frustration. The new young players coming through how ever have nothing to do with the years past and disapointment that go with it. We are definatly building toward better times and we are gunna have to ride the bumps along the way.

I gave been waiting 40 years any chance this decade?

The problem is we only have 2 -3 mean players.

Makes it pretty hard for players to develop a mean streak when you get rubbed out for 3 weeks for a good tackle! and it looks like it may happen again even after being rewarded with a free kick by the umpire....!!!???

Where has Essendons attitude been for a month? Young sides cannot find that week in week out its a simple fact.

I am not saying we can expect that attitude weekly, at this stage...But a 64 point loss by an average side, when a top 8 spot is on the line cannot be accepted.

That is a difference between the MFC and the "Big" Victorian sides...we very rarely turn it on when the world is watching and we are under the pump.

Last years games against the Filth were an exception..Maybe the Team needs to revisit those tapes over the next 2 weeks.

To get anything out of this season we cannot roll over against the Top Sides we are about to play.

Players and Coaches jobs are now on the line for next year...We can still have a good year with hard work and attitude.

And also under Dean Bailey we still have yet to beat a Victorian team other than the Tiogs or Bombers.

This is a disgrace. We had everything to play for especially considering the bye next week and we played like a bunch of chumps.

Sorry, I just can't accept that the apparent consensus that all we have to do is wait, nothing needs to change. If nothing changes, we'll top out at 6th in 2014 if we're lucky.

Where did you get that consensus?

Where did you get that consensus?

From other posts in this thread, we just need ...

* To wait for bodies to become mature enough

* More experience

* A strong, injury-free pre-season

* To improve minor problems such as kicking for goal

* More intensity, endeavur, effort

* Meaner nastier players

* A better attitude

* Different leadership

* To stay patient.

Sorry, I just don't buy that things are basically OK but "we just need" any or all of the above.

From other posts in this thread, we just need ...

* To wait for bodies to become mature enough

* More experience

* A strong, injury-free pre-season

* To improve minor problems such as kicking for goal

* More intensity, endeavur, effort

* Meaner nastier players

* A better attitude

* Different leadership

* To stay patient.

Sorry, I just don't buy that things are basically OK but "we just need" any or all of the above.

Most of those points require more affirmative action than just waiting.

I agree that waiting will solve nothing, I just can't agree that this is the consensus.

If a strategy has been worked out that stands a fair chance of succeeding, it's easy for the players to believe that their strategy will make them win. If they believe it will make them win, they will throw everything into it. That's how the Bombers played.

Are you suggesting that the Melbourne players don't believe in their strategy?

It's difficult to cut through against the opposition if you don't win the contested footy and unfortunately the players collective will was poor in this game. The problem stems from the senior players not being elite, as well as the inconsistency of youth.

Btw, coming off 5 straight losses I'd suggest that Essendon aren't the greatest poster boys when it comes to belief.

Are you suggesting that the Melbourne players don't believe in their strategy?

It's difficult to cut through against the opposition if you don't win the contested footy and unfortunately the players collective will was poor in this game. The problem stems from the senior players not being elite, as well as the inconsistency of youth.

Btw, coming off 5 straight losses I'd suggest that Essendon aren't the greatest poster boys when it comes to belief.

So we are not good enough?

Simple really.

And/or the strategy is not good enough or non-existent!

I think we were flat after consecutive 6 day breaks.

Weak excuse, but I think that's the reason.

Weak, pathetic and embarrassing excuse

I've noticed this year that against the younger sides (put talent completely aside) we have been quite competitive against sides with a few older blokes (once again despite how good or bad they may be) we have struggled with the pressure, pound for pound talent wise we are as good as most. We are not yet strong enough or developed enough to apply pressure to the bigger bodied teams.