Stynes Steps In

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Some things are going to change over the next 6 to 12 months.

1. The coach. A sub committee will chase Malthouse and some quality assistants to take us to the next level.

2. The board will find a football person, possibly Connolly.

3. The players will get a game plan.

4. Stynes can't keep this level of work up so his intervention can only be short term. His own health has to be his priority. Thank God for Jimmy.

5. Scully will resign and one of the reasons will be the revamped FD.

I think this is a poor post.

1. You have no way of knowing. I think it's more likely he'll stay, if the club does what they've said all along, which is to stay the course and not make knee jerk reactions.

2. This is true, but I very much doubt it will be Connolly.

3. There already is a gameplan. We've heard the same assertions that there is no gameplan before when it has not been working - then we came out and drew with Collingwood and thumped Sydney.

4. Stynes has already said it is temporary. Moot point.

5. Scully we re-sign and any re-hamper football department will make no difference.

[Roost It 1,434]

He'll stay.

Players of his calibre want to be coached by the best coaches. Stynes knows this. I'm guessing there's player angst towards Bailey over some issues. I'd say the Andrew's Report gave a damning analysis of our FD. This would have stung Jimmy and those close to him into action. There's changes brewing. Can the club afford to do what it has to do? It can't not or we're never going to be anything other than battlers.

[Roost It 1,434]

I think this is a poor post.

1. You have no way of knowing. I think it's more likely he'll stay, if the club does what they've said all along, which is to stay the course and not make knee jerk reactions.

2. This is true, but I very much doubt it will be Connolly.

3. There already is a gameplan. We've heard the same assertions that there is no gameplan before when it has not been working - then we came out and drew with Collingwood and thumped Sydney.

4. Stynes has already said it is temporary. Moot point.

5. Scully we re-sign and any re-hamper football department will make no difference.

1. Of course I don't but are you saying the club isn't sounding out the idea. Bailey is as good as gon. To think diffferently shows little knowledge of Football. The President just took over the FD. Do you think that would happen if he was happy with the coach?

2. He won't head up a revamped FD, I'll bet you that.

3. Not according to Viney, who is in fact one of the coaches.

4. correct.

5. Scully and players of his ilk won't hang around if they don't think the coach and FD is up to the job of bringing out their best football.

[Nasher 33,616]

Players of his calibre want to be coached by the best coaches.

So he wants to run off and play for bat-shit crazy Sheedy? Hmm.

I applaud your creativity in making this about Scully though.

[Felix 92]

So he wants to run off and play for bat-[censored] crazy Sheedy? Hmm.

I applaud your creativity in making this about Scully though.

If Scully is not happy at the MFC, it does not mean he is GWS bound. There are plenty of clubs out there that would make a play for him, dont think its just GWS that is after him.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Roost It, I'm sorry but I don't agree with most of what you have said.

1. To say Bailey is as good as gone is merely your misperception. I think you also misunderstand his role as coach, and what Stynes role would be as Director of Football.

I'd say it puts more pressure / focus on the form of Connolly. It's my understanding the different arms of the football department are not working together as they should, but that is not necessarily due to the failings of the coach. I think his time is better spent not managing these things.

2. He may, he may not. You have no way of knowing, you're only speculating. It's entirely possible he could stay and the OBS changes slightly.

3. You are misquoting Viney. That is not the case at all, and the evidence is there.

4. -

5. I doubt that. How would a kid entering his 2nd year of AFL footy even know what the league benchmark is and that we weren't meeting it?

More than likely they'd accept what they are seeing as they have no previous experience at an AFL club.

They will stay for each other, not for the football department.

They, like us, would trust that if things are not right in that regard, that changes would be made.

[Roost It 1,434]

So he wants to run off and play for bat-[censored] crazy Sheedy? Hmm.

I applaud your creativity in making this about Scully though.

I don't think he would or will go to GWS. Someone else bought Scully up and by the way it's all about Scully in my mind. He's our best chance a a truly elite player since Robbie Flower. Not to mention without him or someone of his calibre we'll struggle to win a Premiership.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Royal has been there 5 minutes.

Mahoney has seen some improvement (the press would not be included in that...)

And West has seen little improvement.

If we are using the very simplified model of judging line coaches by the output of their 'lines,' Scotty West is in a heap of trouble with Mahoney and Royal under the pump. Williams and O'Donnell are harder to judge.

gee 5 mins..i dont think so.. hes been around the trrap a lot longer than 5 mins.. This time hes been here since early Nov. Time to take his charges through a full preseason... OUr defensive structure looks casual at best...shoddy at worst...often a lot less effective that a defense that was saluted as amongst the better going around. That would hardly been attributed to us currently.

Scott came to us with glowing praise.. cant see much for it personally

Am very unsure as to how good or bad Mahoney is as our forward line doesnt get much of a lok in. I thin structurally it leaves room for improvement but thatmaysimplyhappen with a decent big forward.

Williams as our Ball Movement coach...wellour ball movement is crap at times.. enough said

theres a trend

[Roost It 1,434]

Roost It, I'm sorry but I don't agree with most of what you have said.

1. To say Bailey is as good as gone is merely your misperception. I think you also misunderstand his role as coach, and what Stynes role would be as Director of Football.

I'd say it puts more pressure / focus on the form of Connolly. It's my understanding the different arms of the football department are not working together as they should, but that is not necessarily due to the failings of the coach. I think his time is better spent not managing these things.

2. He may, he may not. You have no way of knowing, you're only speculating. It's entirely possible he could stay and the OBS changes slightly.

3. You are misquoting Viney. That is not the case at all, and the evidence is there.

4. -

5. I doubt that. How would a kid entering his 2nd year of AFL footy even know what the league benchmark is and that we weren't meeting it?

More than likely they'd accept what they are seeing as they have no previous experience at an AFL club.

They will stay for each other, not for the football department.

They, like us, would trust that if things are not right in that regard, that changes would be made.

We'll wait and see.....but I'll be right.

[rpfc 28,430]

gee 5 mins..i dont think so.. hes been around the trrap a lot longer than 5 mins.. This time hes been here since early Nov. Time to take his charges through a full preseason... OUr defensive structure looks casual at best...shoddy at worst...often a lot less effective that a defense that was saluted as amongst the better going around. That would hardly been attributed to us currently.

Scott came to us with glowing praise.. cant see much for it personally

Am very unsure as to how good or bad Mahoney is as our forward line doesnt get much of a lok in. I thin structurally it leaves room for improvement but thatmaysimplyhappen with a decent big forward.

Williams as our Ball Movement coach...wellour ball movement is crap at times.. enough said

theres a trend

We may see a change.

Line coaches are difficult to judge.

I assume this will be assessed in the next 6 months by the club and the new head of footy ops...

[Deeflated 0]

If we're making decisions of this nature to placate supporters then we're in more trouble than most of us first thought.

How so? Clubs make decisions all the time to placate supporters, I'm sure Scully's presser earlier this year was just that.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Jimma was never one to just sit back and wait for things to happen. Loved playin on the ball so he was in the thick of the action.

His off field style is a reflection of his on field actions: Leadership, guts and determination to succeed.

I always swore he wished he was a foot smaller so he could take on a true roving role. GL Jimmy! B)

[H_T 3,047]

How so? Clubs make decisions all the time to placate supporters, I'm sure Scully's presser earlier this year was just that.

IIRC it was Scully who sought the club out to front the press.

[Nasher 33,616]

How so? Clubs make decisions all the time to placate supporters, I'm sure Scully's presser earlier this year was just that.

That's not a decision of this nature though is it? It's just laughable to compare the decision to have Stynes heavily involved in the running of the FD to a throwaway press conference from Tom Scully.

This decision could have massive consequences for the club on the field. It's a hugely important decision that shouldn't come off the back of supporters whining because it's either the right thing to do or it isn't; how much the supporters are complaining has nothing to do with it.

The only decisions that get made based on the mood of the supporters should be the ones that only affect the mood of the supporters and nothing else. Anything that has greater consequences than that needs a much better reason.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Ill keep it going in this thread..as its really only a different take on it..

Stynes Role old news according HUN

Well the gist is that the Board ratified the Stynes McLardy role back in MArch and not the recent one.

Quite frankly Mike its all a bit sooki la la from you and the HUN surely

Until yesterday no one really knew any of this outside of the club. And now we do..Caro broke the story ..you lot were sitting on your @rses.

The reality is when it was inaugurated is less relevant than when its been enacted. Its totally relevant for mine that its being seen to be done at a point when the clubs fortunes are waning on the field.

The assertion that any animosity between the various parties is a beat up well may be the fact but to an outsider it certainly looks like the club has a problem. Anywhich way its packaged something cant be quite right otherwise no actionwould be required at all.

Personally I se teh HUN article more as some form of redress attempting to claim the higher ground. The AGED in this instance made the news available the HUN did nada...they get the choccies this time Mike...suck it up mate.

None of this changes the reality things need to change and Jimma is stepping in to kick start it.

[rpfc 28,430]

They obviously didn't get the story right, BB.

The Age, in my view, wrote it to elicit the response it got and removed important details like the fact the decision was made before the season started.

With that said, I still believe it is Jim's desire to mould the FD after this season.

[Tricky 341]

They obviously didn't get the story right, BB.

The Age, in my view, wrote it to elicit the response it got and removed important details like the fact the decision was made before the season started.

With that said, I still believe it is Jim's desire to mould the FD after this season.

It would appear to be the case...

MFC Clarification on Stynes' Role

MELBOURNE has clarified president Jim Stynes’ role with its football department, after comments made in The Age on Thursday.

[IWAP 170]

There is a big difference between appointing Jimmy to this position at the start of the season, and this week. I'd imagine it was meant to be deliberately deceiving and shows that The Age is really no better than the Herald-Sun these days for muck-raking.

I still have some reservations about the president overseeing the football department, but at the very least i'd like to withdraw my earlier condemnation in this thread.

[Hannabal 4]

Ill keep it going in this thread..as its really only a different take on it..

Stynes Role old news according HUN

Well the gist is that the Board ratified the Stynes McLardy role back in MArch and not the recent one.

Quite frankly Mike its all a bit sooki la la from you and the HUN surely

Until yesterday no one really knew any of this outside of the club. And now we do..Caro broke the story ..you lot were sitting on your @rses.

The reality is when it was inaugurated is less relevant than when its been enacted. Its totally relevant for mine that its being seen to be done at a point when the clubs fortunes are waning on the field.

The assertion that any animosity between the various parties is a beat up well may be the fact but to an outsider it certainly looks like the club has a problem. Anywhich way its packaged something cant be quite right otherwise no actionwould be required at all.

Personally I se teh HUN article more as some form of redress attempting to claim the higher ground. The AGED in this instance made the news available the HUN did nada...they get the choccies this time Mike...suck it up mate.

None of this changes the reality things need to change and Jimma is stepping in to kick start it.

One of your better posts.

The apologists will enjoy the slant in the HS as it suits their head in the sands approach, but despite the club now clumsily trying to manage the fallout the die has well and truly been cast.

In our FD we have Bailey, Connolly, Viney, Williams, O'Donnell, Royal, Wellman, Harrington, West, and a footy CEO in Schwab who's been around forever, but despite all these experienced 'footy heads', we have a President that now sees the need to become a hands on footy person that is going to sit in the box and is in the process of selecting a subcommittee to review the senior coach. This happens amidst non competitive performances and the backdrop of football experts - and anyone who actually watches the game with their eyes open - stating that we don't forward press against the opposition, we can't handle frontal pressure against us, and instead rely on winning the footy off half back and using 'run and spread' to mount forward thrusts. And of course this high risk / high reward strategy is suspect under pressure due to the high numbers of players from the opposition (18 man zones) that need to be penetrated. Our players run forward of the play expecting that their teammates will win a contested ball, but if they don't, or there's a turnover, they're completely exposed on the rebound. This is one of the reasons that we never have as many numbers as the opposition around the footy - they've peeled off, or we've lost any semblance of structure. Unfortunately a new and more defensive gameplan can't be successfully implemented overnight.

Three quarters of the competition could see the way footy was heading, but in the words of Todd Viney, "we didn't concentrate that much on gameplan, or strategy, but more individual player development". Great call Dean. I mean, you're only in your second year as coach, aren't you ?

But the apologists get all upset - they say "The torch bearers are on the warpath", or "I'm sick of supporters being unfair to Dean", "we have the youngest list outside the Gold Coast", and of course all of these platitudes are said in a whiny voice similar to that of well known talk back caller 'Chris from Camberwell'. They say they'd like to deal in facts. The fact is our coach, who definitely has good coaching qualities, isn't the best person to manage this football side through to a premiership. Gameplan and structure has increased in importance, yet we've given it a backseat. Forward 50 pressure has never been more important, yet we can't get the ball in our forward 50 and when we do we lay the least tackles in the comp despite it being of such critical importance.

Bailey will see the year out and rightly so, but he won't have the time to catch up to most of the competition with regards to our gameplan. You can't change it overnight. And despite his best intentions, despite the players "loving Dean" and despite his terrific contribution to the club he won't deserve a contract extension. Dean has tried his all and he's been good for Melbourne, but he just doesn't quite cut the mustard. He came here as a "teaching coach", which I fear is partly his downfall. Teaching is an important part of coaching young players, but it's been at the expense of structure and gameplan. Not many teachers have a hard edge. How can a teacher ask his pupil to run through a brick wall for them ? The club needs teachers, but not as the head coach.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

If Scully is not happy at the MFC, it does not mean he is GWS bound. There are plenty of clubs out there that would make a play for him, dont think its just GWS that is after him.

Nice point Stur. My other concern is that if Scully decides to Bail , then others of his recruiting era and ilk may decide it's a good move also......

However, we're assuming so much at this early stage. One big positive is, we're still in the 8. I still got faith we can turn this around this year, and make a GF in the next 2 to 4, provided i can see...

1. Maximum effort, passion and a willingness to bleed for the jumper from here, week in week out (ie., Draw a line in the sand within the FD/Leaders/all players);

2. No more Thurs night/2nd half 'Hawkish' repeats (if we do, this post is null & VOID!);

3. Some semblance of a game plan taking form and consistently working for us;

4. Winning more first quarters than we lose;

5. Winning the ball out of the centre more often than not and certainly not getting smashed big time here most weeks.

6. Developing our game plan so that we begin to master the press (defensively and offensively)

7. A substantial number of our rookie bods & C,D graders turning into man bods & B,A graders. IMO, outside of Moloney, Jamar, Bate, Jones, Sylvia and Tapscott our senior list lacks physical prescence and grunt...STILL!

You don't see too many premierships won without big boys with big bods and lots of talent through the middle/up front etc etc. Bangin in and gettin the hard contested ball and stripping other players of possession etc (generally speaking. There's always a few slightly built outside runners/receivers and highly skilled smalls in the mix of course, along with a myriad of other factors/skills that you gotta get right!);

8. In line with 7...we're gonna have to trade VERY wisely from here to fill a few gaping holes; AND

9. Subject to injuries/luck, we should at the very least, finish in the 8 this year or come within a bee's dik of making it.

Not asking too much am i? B)

[mauriesy 7,296]

Did anyone at all read the last two sentences of the Melbourne FC press release?

"Melbourne’s football director represents the football department and communicates to the board on football matters. It is not a management role."

Just wondering.

[rpfc 28,430]

(Hannabal post)

Agree with most of that.

The 'apologist crowd' is a pretty small crowd.

Not really sure why it is constantly mentioned...

Edited May 6, 2011 by rpfc

[daisycutter 29,616]

The 'apologist crowd' is a pretty small crowd.

maybe not so small.......and certainly quite vocal

[Guest 36DD]

One of your better posts.

The apologists will enjoy the slant in the HS as it suits their head in the sands approach, but despite the club now clumsily trying to manage the fallout the die has well and truly been cast.

In our FD we have Bailey, Connolly, Viney, Williams, O'Donnell, Royal, Wellman, Harrington, West, and a footy CEO in Schwab who's been around forever, but despite all these experienced 'footy heads', we have a President that now sees the need to become a hands on footy person that is going to sit in the box and is in the process of selecting a subcommittee to review the senior coach. This happens amidst non competitive performances and the backdrop of football experts - and anyone who actually watches the game with their eyes open - stating that we don't forward press against the opposition, we can't handle frontal pressure against us, and instead rely on winning the footy off half back and using 'run and spread' to mount forward thrusts. And of course this high risk / high reward strategy is suspect under pressure due to the high numbers of players from the opposition (18 man zones) that need to be penetrated. Our players run forward of the play expecting that their teammates will win a contested ball, but if they don't, or there's a turnover, they're completely exposed on the rebound. This is one of the reasons that we never have as many numbers as the opposition around the footy - they've peeled off, or we've lost any semblance of structure. Unfortunately a new and more defensive gameplan can't be successfully implemented overnight.

Three quarters of the competition could see the way footy was heading, but in the words of Todd Viney, "we didn't concentrate that much on gameplan, or strategy, but more individual player development". Great call Dean. I mean, you're only in your second year as coach, aren't you ?

But the apologists get all upset - they say "The torch bearers are on the warpath", or "I'm sick of supporters being unfair to Dean", "we have the youngest list outside the Gold Coast", and of course all of these platitudes are said in a whiny voice similar to that of well known talk back caller 'Chris from Camberwell'. They say they'd like to deal in facts. The fact is our coach, who definitely has good coaching qualities, isn't the best person to manage this football side through to a premiership. Gameplan and structure has increased in importance, yet we've given it a backseat. Forward 50 pressure has never been more important, yet we can't get the ball in our forward 50 and when we do we lay the least tackles in the comp despite it being of such critical importance.

Bailey will see the year out and rightly so, but he won't have the time to catch up to most of the competition with regards to our gameplan. You can't change it overnight. And despite his best intentions, despite the players "loving Dean" and despite his terrific contribution to the club he won't deserve a contract extension. Dean has tried his all and he's been good for Melbourne, but he just doesn't quite cut the mustard. He came here as a "teaching coach", which I fear is partly his downfall. Teaching is an important part of coaching young players, but it's been at the expense of structure and gameplan. Not many teachers have a hard edge. How can a teacher ask his pupil to run through a brick wall for them ? The club needs teachers, but not as the head coach.

Very well written post and surprisingly balanced from you, yet how do we know of the strengths and weaknesses of Dean Bailey without actually being a player or personnel within the football department? We hear rumblings that the players have not been following their structures, is this Bailey's fault??? Basic skill errors, kicking out of bounds on the full whilst under no pressure, is this Bailey's fault??? Lacking intensity in first quarters is this Bailey's fault???

The easiest person to pot whilst the chips are down is the coach, in my opinion Bailey has weathered everything that has come his way with aplomb. When will our supporters take off the rose coloured glasses which place our under-performing players on a pedestal??? Gameplan or lack thereof, a gameplan is not required for the things that have made collingwood so successful, a burning desire, a will to win is what is needed. Geez, we can make excuses all we want but the players are running out of excuses, cant fallback on the Junction Oval excuse anymore. I feel that Cameron Bruce's struggles at Hawthorn, and please ask any Hawks supporter what they think of him, are evidence of a "comfortable" culture at Melbourne. Not many Melbourne players go to other clubs and achieve more than what they did with the Dees.

A change in coach will not bring about a change in culture amongst the players and this is the most pressing problem at the moment. The most inept quarter of football I have ever seen, that being against West Coast, was caused by what lies between the ears of the players. No gameplan, no matter how well or poorly conceived, can be blamed for what was served up last Thursday.

The players are on notice, astute football judges are aware of where the problem lies, excuses are running out.

[beelzebub 23,376]

It would appear to be the case...

MFC Clarification on Stynes' Role

want to buy a bridge ??

That is pure spin and damage control.To beleiee otherwise is foolhardy and youre welcome to do so.

I wont argue at what point the actual appointment was made. Though that in itself to me make me even more curious that had it been made the other day. Someone had an inkling that all was not right. My impression is that with the pending release of the Andrews report maybe they didnt want to upset anyone too early. Maybe they second guessed the take that the media would have of it and thought to go slowly slowly. That was...until Bad Thursday and Fallout Friday !! Then their hand was forced.

There is , to me, obviously a lot more going on about all this than we're ever likely to know for some time. A wheel has fallen of the footy depts wagon. Quite possibly the Board thought all things being equal they could push the new role into place with all parties' cogs meshing into place without to much jarring. Then it all threw a hissy fit. Something gave.

The Andrews report , by all accounts, and this hasnt been refuted anywhere to my knowledge , identifies the football dept as the only real unknown. It was this notion that prompted the board to re-establish the football directorship ( and why this was allowed to go fallow is anyones') and use this conduit to better understand the current state of machinations within the boiler -room.

Timelines are interesting and forensics use them to establish the bonefide of events as opposed to their appearance.

Why was the GO button only pushed AFTER the most recent board meeting.. why werent Stynes/Mclardy installed into operational mode prior to this... what bus were they waiting for ? ( the same one Baileys looks to be awaiting by all accounts !! )

Looks like , sounds like, walks like .......