Caro doesnt believe that the Facebook group who are calling for Bailings sacking should be given any exposure. She called them idiots. (It was bought up by Hutchinson)

She'd be right.

i wonder if the players watch this program?

It's obvious why it happened to me.. we sent out a very small side to play a very big side who are a year and a half furhter advanced than us and huge. Our kids were intimidated from the first bounce. A selection delemma...

I think you are dead right.

Same thing happened last year against the Eagles.

Same thing happened the last 3 times we played Hawthorn.

The thing is, should our selection decisions be made with winning games now in mind, or should they be made with development in mind, so that we win more games "tomorrow"?

Personally, I'm happy with the decisions.

Not necessarily the output, but it's almost a necessary evil.

There are times when the young team will be "ON" and we'll beat teams by 73 points (Sydney).

(I understand this is possibly not the place for this exact discussion, but with all the muck-raking on this forum at the moment, I'm not quite sure where to put it!)

The stats were shown comparing our 1st qtr against the Eagles and the Suns against the Bombers which were:

Score

MFC 0.2 (Down 31 points) Suns 0.1 (Down by 93 points)

Clangers

MFC 10 Suns 8

Tackles

MFC 13 Suns 20

Inside 50's

MFC 3 Suns 9

Contested marks

MFC 3 Suns 1

Contested possessions

MFC 30 Suns 29

I would have thought the more important 'stat' in that comparison is that they lost the match by nearly three times as much as us

Would have been nice if they'd averaged those stats out across games played. Are we 17th for tackles because we've played one game less? Might even get up to 16th if we're lucky.

Disgraceful stat considering the amount of time we haven't had the ball this year.

The other apparently significant KPI, Contested Possessions is holding us back a bit as well:

CPs

Tackles

Gold Coast moved up two spots from last week, we "held our ground".

n many respects it comes down to one simple notion. Melbourne , that is it's players and coaches say one thing and DO another. I don't believe a word of their waffle any more I will judge and comment purely on the result of their actions.

Have yet to see words win a game of football, only effort.

Some advice Brad... Less talk , more action

Yes, we are definitely on the same page Snoop.

I actually predicted a belting by the Eagles.

I see it as simple adding up of the pertinent factors - all the evidence pointed to it.

- The Eagles match last year.

- our record against bigger bodied teams that have strong hard-ball winners (hawks, eagles)

- our physically undeveloped players

- we'd be flat, not just coming off a bye, but having played substandard opposition in the 2 previous games (Bris, GC)

- our poor record traveling (tough to change considering all the other factors)

- Guys like Morton, Wonaeamirri & Frawley underdone

- no McKenzie

- Davey & Green in poor form

How can people be surprised, looking at the facts going in?

We are a young side - they are inconsistent.

As much as we'd like to be a contender, we as supporters need to understand where we are at as a list, and manage our expectations accordingly.

I've been guilty of not doing that in the past and it has caused anguish.

This is why I now take a pragmatic view.

Artie you and I are on the same page. I said this before the match. In response to

"This match is so important to win. We have a brutal run coming up."

Whilst understanding where you are coming from I couldn't disagree more and I hope the footy department hasn't taken their eye off the ball and remembers that the path we are on is to win a flag in 2 to 8 years time.

When you put this game in that light winning or losing is of no importance. What is important is to keep doing the things that will help us win when we need to and in my opinion that means playing the players that will be participants in that time frame and playing them in the positions they will play at that time. Watts must play and I was staggered that he didn't play a full game last week. The open spaces of Subi should suit him but that really is just a side issue.

To the FD credit I think they have done wonderfully this year. They gave Stef Martin a go when his form in the NAB cup was questionable. They brought Morton straight back into the team and played Gysberts and Wonaeamirri as soon as they were able. Tapscott was given a go from round one and maintained ahead of Macdonald. From where I sit the Watts decision was the only mistake and I can't help thinking there was something behind that we don't know because it was just so strange.

This "vision" if you like started from the end of last season when Junior and Bruce left. Bail and Tapscott are probably the two beneficiaries and both have grabbed their chances.

The success stories of the season to date for me have been Martin, Bail and Tapscott. Wonaeamirri is becoming another.

The disappointments to date are Davey, Dunn and perhaps Green. Dunn needs to grab his chance as there are a few others just waiting to grab his spot. Macdonald is stiff. He is good enough to be in the 22 but is missing to make way for development.

I'm surprised that commentators like Lyon and Thomas (who I really like) don't say this except for the fact it doesn't sensationalize things and doesn't serve their purpose.

Keep punching Artie, a few may listen.

Interesting review.....largely I would agree with you Snoopy, but it's a dangerous game to play. You risk damaging confidence from every position necessary to maintain a progressive spirit. From the team, to the board, to the media, and most importantly supporters. I think the Morton experiment defines it well. He was staggeringly played against Brisbane, unfairly to him I believe, and it has backfired. He looks lacking in all aspects of the game at the moment, and I reckon it is that he is recovering from being thrown to the Lions (so to speak). At a larger level, it's the same for the team.

Some of them enjoy, I think.

Part of the role of "supporter" in their minds, is to bay for blood when things don't work as they'd like them to.

Being blindly passionate is what they see as their job description. Worked at Richmond, didn't it?

Fortunately, I think our administration is clever and informed enough to not make the same mistake.

Some posters will tell you the horse has bolted, while they search for their whip and fiddle with the padlock on the gate.

I think our young bodies have trouble making the tackles stick.

Not an uncommon problem for young developing players, and we have an abundance of them.

As much as our impatient supporters might not like to wait longer, unfortunately this is what we must do.

A change of coach won't change much at all; in fact a change of gamestyle may push us further away from true contention.

Time is the only answer.

You have a familiar style. What name do you usually post under ?

Trying to even up the status quo as best you can ?

(I understand this is possibly not the place for this exact discussion, but with all the muck-raking on this forum at the moment, I'm not quite sure where to put it!)

Put it where you deem it to fit. There are dozens of threads that are on virtually the same eventual topic ...

You have a familiar style. What name do you usually post under ?

Trying to even up the status quo as best you can ?

Seconded. Come clean 'Artie' ..

Being blindly passionate is what they see as their job description. Worked at Richmond, didn't it?

and Essendon.......?

see I can cherry pick too.....proves nothing

n many respects it comes down to one simple notion. Melbourne , that is it's players and coaches say one thing and DO another. I don't believe a word of their waffle any more I will judge and comment purely on the result of their actions.

Have yet to see words win a game of football, only effort.

Some advice Brad... Less talk , more action

Same reason I gave up reading the friday paper a few years ago .

Got sick of our various leaders stating we let ourselves down , gonna redeem themselves , earn back respect Blah , blah , blah .

Then theyed dish up the same tripe on gameday .

We are forever redeeming ourselves and regaining lost respect.

Had it up to Funkcig here with it . We had our arzes handed to us against the Dawks and what did we get ?We'll make amends against Brisbane . Fell over that line .

GC next and the most uninspiring 90pt win I've ever witnessed .

Here we are another game later and we're back to redeeming ourselves , it's a never ending circle of BS .

As Pagan used to say , "Just show me the baby."

Same reason I gave up reading the friday paper a few years ago .

Got sick of our various captains stating we were gonna redeem themselves , earn back respect Blah , blah , blah .

Then theyed dish up the same tripe on gameday .

We are forever redeeming ourselves and gaining lost respect.

Had it up to Funkcig here with it . We had our arses handed to us against the dawks and what did we get .... We'll make amends against Brisbane . Fell over that line .

GC next and the most uninspiring 90pt win I've ever witnessed .

Here we are 2 weeks later and we're back to redeeming ourselves , it's a never ending circle of BS .

As Pagan used to say , "Just show me the baby."

Ditto. Show me Aaron Davey, Colin Sylvia, Brad Green, Jamie Bennell et al with their head over the football, taking hits and laying tackles manically for four quarters on Sunday ... then I might start taking notice of what any of them says.

My take:

Garry Lyon doesn't rate Bailey. He came armed with damning ammunition as to how we're playing by showing embarrassing statistics. He wouldn't endorse the coach when asked, but instead said "we'll know in the next 6-8 weeks". He also said that Bailey is in the "perfect position" (emphasised) in that he can redress the imbalance and ensure his own survival with on-field performances. It smacked to me as someone saying the ball is in your court Dean, hit the winner.

Lyon has also recently queried the game plan calling it "high risk high reward", as opposed to West Coast being "well organised and structured".

Lyon knows that every footy person is keen to hear his views about the club he once captained. My gut feel is that he doesn't overly rate the coach and I'd be surprised if some inside the club don't share those concerns.

Snoopy has made some valid points, but I want to know why we've been caught off guard over the preseason by the forward press and why many players are simply not having a crack. Our defensive game plan is almost non existent.

I made a thread a while back titled "top 6", which explained that a club's fortunes and ladder position is usually mirrored by the quality of their top 6. That thread supports the Snoopster, as our top 6 are playing poorly and are yet to reach consistent A grade status. Top 6 players of last year are for varying reasons playing poorly. Frawley, Green, Davey, Jamar, Sylvia, and Moloney. Frawley has an excuse, Jamar has been OK, but the rest are lamentable. Some will say that Moloney could have 3 BOGS, but I consider him a flat track bully and ordinary against decent opposition.

So yes, there are reasons which partly explain why we're so poor; and it's not all laid at the feet of Bailey, but I'm firmly of the view that Bailey isn't the coach able to bring everything together to take this group forward.

Ditto. Show me Aaron Davey, Colin Sylvia, Brad Green, Jamie Bennell et al with their head over the football, taking hits and laying tackles manically for four quarters on Sunday ... then I might start taking notice of what any of them says.

I won't cause we'll be back to square 1 within a few weeks .

We're a soft club that gets far too comforable with ourselves .

I'm sure many on our list are just happy to be playing AFL and enjoying the lifestyle that it brings .

Got a few twitter followers , lifes good .

No need to push yourself too hard , Finals are for other clubs .

My take:

Garry Lyon doesn't rate Bailey. He came armed with damning ammunition as to how we're playing by showing embarrassing statistics. He wouldn't endorse the coach when asked, but instead said "we'll know in the next 6-8 weeks". He also said that Bailey is in the "perfect position" (emphasised) in that he can redress the imbalance and ensure his own survival with on-field performances. It smacked to me as someone saying the ball is in your court Dean, hit the winner.

Lyon has also recently queried the game plan calling it "high risk high reward", as opposed to West Coast being "well organised and structured".

Lyon knows that every footy person is keen to hear his views about the club he once captained. My gut feel is that he doesn't overly rate the coach and I'd be surprised if some inside the club don't share those concerns.

Snoopy has made some valid points, but I want to know why we've been caught off guard over the preseason by the forward press and why many players are simply not having a crack. Our defensive game plan is almost non existent.

I made a thread a while back titled "top 6", which explained that a club's fortunes and ladder position is usually mirrored by the quality of their top 6. That thread supports the Snoopster, as our top 6 are playing poorly and are yet to reach consistent A grade status. Top 6 players of last year are for varying reasons playing poorly. Frawley, Green, Davey, Jamar, Sylvia, and Moloney. Frawley has an excuse, Jamar has been OK, but the rest are lamentable. Some will say that Moloney could have 3 BOGS, but I consider him a flat track bully and ordinary against decent opposition.

So yes, there are reasons which partly explain why we're so poor; and it's not all laid at the feet of Bailey, but I'm firmly of the view that Bailey isn't the coach able to bring everything together to take this group forward.

Another reason Lyon doesn't sink the boot in is because he was on the panel that selected Bailey .

That'd be embarrassing .

Another reason Lyon doesn't sink the boot in is because he was on the panel that selected Bailey .

That'd be embarrassing .

yep...no one likes to get sold a pup

My take:

Garry Lyon doesn't rate Bailey. He came armed with damning ammunition as to how we're playing by showing embarrassing statistics. He wouldn't endorse the coach when asked, but instead said "we'll know in the next 6-8 weeks". He also said that Bailey is in the "perfect position" (emphasised) in that he can redress the imbalance and ensure his own survival with on-field performances. It smacked to me as someone saying the ball is in your court Dean, hit the winner.

Lyon has also recently queried the game plan calling it "high risk high reward", as opposed to West Coast being "well organised and structured".

Lyon knows that every footy person is keen to hear his views about the club he once captained. My gut feel is that he doesn't overly rate the coach and I'd be surprised if some inside the club don't share those concerns.

Snoopy has made some valid points, but I want to know why we've been caught off guard over the preseason by the forward press and why many players are simply not having a crack. Our defensive game plan is almost non existent.

I made a thread a while back titled "top 6", which explained that a club's fortunes and ladder position is usually mirrored by the quality of their top 6. That thread supports the Snoopster, as our top 6 are playing poorly and are yet to reach consistent A grade status. Top 6 players of last year are for varying reasons playing poorly. Frawley, Green, Davey, Jamar, Sylvia, and Moloney. Frawley has an excuse, Jamar has been OK, but the rest are lamentable. Some will say that Moloney could have 3 BOGS, but I consider him a flat track bully and ordinary against decent opposition.

So yes, there are reasons which partly explain why we're so poor; and it's not all laid at the feet of Bailey, but I'm firmly of the view that Bailey isn't the coach able to bring everything together to take this group forward.

Pretty much my feelings. I also like what Snoopy writes, but it still does not explain the lack of Passion, particularly from our leaders.

When Richmond played the Filth earlier this season, they got belted yes, But that Richmond side still had a real crack that night- they were punching way over their division but you could see the effort was there for Hardwick.

That is the aspect i have not seen this year with Melbourne & i think that is the area that Bailey will be judged on this year.

I understand development years, Game time etc, but we cannot afford to keep getting belted the way we have been.

I still wish we had been able to go harder for Luke Ball-he would have lifted this current leadership group to a higher level. Ball is a perfectionist with preparation and i think we lack a bit of that right now.

Got to keep Tom Scully...WE MUST.

im not sure Lyon is undecided at all...he may simply be at a loss for a clean , unbloody way forward and might be waiting to see how the next couple of minths unfold in the football world and who possible makes any overtures.

The major contributors to us being no 1 in tackles this time last year are none other than McKenzie and Junior.

No coincidence that when you take our top two tacklers out of the team that stat MAY fall away.

I say MAY because as a coach you impress this KPI on the team at the start of the season and say "last season we were number one in tackles and we want to be the same season. (then state the obvious) Our best two tacklers arent playing so who is going to step up ?"

Good teams have players to fill the breach. Good teams have players who step up - we aren't good.

I think you are dead right.

Same thing happened last year against the Eagles.

Same thing happened the last 3 times we played Hawthorn.

The thing is, should our selection decisions be made with winning games now in mind, or should they be made with development in mind, so that we win more games "tomorrow"?

Personally, I'm happy with the decisions.

Not necessarily the output, but it's almost a necessary evil.

There are times when the young team will be "ON" and we'll beat teams by 73 points (Sydney).

(I understand this is possibly not the place for this exact discussion, but with all the muck-raking on this forum at the moment, I'm not quite sure where to put it!)

NO, I'd like to pick sides to maintain our "emotional integrity"... What I mean by that is when we're coming up to the bigger intimidating sides, we drop 2 of the "less Intense" types for 2 sizeable "in and at it " types who''ll have a go... Horses for course. Just to help keep the faith amongst the kids.

G Lyon has repeatedly said he will not coach, so that is old news, your second point he said 6 weeks rather than 4, but said it with Media Diplomacy.

So did James Hird...

FWIW if Dean Bailey was to be sacked I'd like Paul Roos to take over. I'd imagine we'd stick with Bailey though.

I actually predicted a belting by the Eagles.

I see it as simple adding up of the pertinent factors - all the evidence pointed to it.

How can people be surprised, looking at the facts going in?

We are a young side - they are inconsistent.

As much as we'd like to be a contender, we as supporters need to understand where we are at as a list, and manage our expectations accordingly.

I've been guilty of not doing that in the past and it has caused anguish.

This is why I now take a pragmatic view.

Intersting theory. So we only need to look at past results to predict future outcomes? We won't win in Adelaide or Perth ever again...

I'm not sure many on here were expecting a win (more likly hoping), but an improvement on recent performances was reasonable.

A young side can be easily rattled when under the pump away, as we were. Therefore its crucial we have solid structures and plans in place to deal with that.

We had no idea last Thursday. People want answers.