Did anyone scream at Chris Dawes to bloody do something already when he hardly played a senior game in his first 3 seasons of footy?

Dawes was drafted with pick 28, so the expectations were not as high

Dawes was drafted with pick 28, so the expectations were not as high

That is explains why Dawes was given sufficient time to develop, but it does NOT justify why Dawes deserves 3-4 years to develop, while Watts does not.

Watts came into the AFL as a skinny 196cm KPF with a strong basketball background. He needs those developmental years, just like many KP forwards in the past, including many KP forwards who were top 10 draft picks!

Watts came into the AFL as a skinny 196cm KPF with a strong basketball background. He needs those developmental years, just like many KP forwards in the past, including many KP forwards who were top 10 draft picks!

Yes he played basketball, but i bet when we drafted him we thought this would equate to great agility, not an excuse for his footballing deficiencies.

Where he was picked in the draft is not his isue and nore should it be an issue for club supporters, bottom line is he is here until at least the end of this year. The questions should be

1. Is he playing well enough for a spot now

2. Should we develop him and

3. Will he come good.

Plenty of contributors have expressed opinions on 2 and 3 but on 1.....

- He is equal 19th for kicks and disposals - poor but not necesssarily enough to get dropped (coz you would need someone better to replace him!)

- He is equal 15th for handpasses - a bare pass mark but again not necessrily bad enough to drop him

- He is equal 11th for marks - a pass mark

- He is equal 8th for tackles - better than a pass mark given the lack of pressure the whole team has applied in some quarters this season

So by my reckoning he holds his spot (just) based on this years stats unless there is a couple of others seriously knocking on the door to get into the team (anyone got suggestions?). And that ignores the possibility that he he may well turn out to be a very good or even a great player who we should be giving game time to.

By the way he is 27th on the list of games played.

Edited April 13, 201114 yr by Flying Cloud

We should all be film crickets!

What! Should be?

Where he was picked in the draft is not his isue and nore should it be an issue for club supporters, bottom line is he is here until at least the end of this year. The questions should be

1. Is he playing well enough for a spot now

2. Should we develop him and

3. Will he come good.

Plenty of contributors have expressed opinions on 2 and 3 but on 1.....

- He is equal 19th for kicks and disposals - poor but not necesssarily enough to get dropped (coz you would need someone better to replace him!)

- He is equal 15th for handpasses - a bare pass mark but again not necessrily bad enough to drop him

- He is equal 11th for marks - a pass mark

- He is equal 8th for tackles - better than a pass mark given the lack of pressure the whole team has applied in some quarters this season

So by my reckoning he holds his spot (just) based on this years stats unless there is a couple of others seriously knocking on the door to get into the team (anyone got suggestions?). And that ignores the possibility that he he may well turn out to be a very good or even a great player who we should be giving game time to.

By the way he is 27th on the list of games played.

Gotcha! He's getting C's and C-'s... Not quite Dunce,,, but Not Elite either.

The only stat that really matters with jack is contested marks and contested possessions and goals kicked. On all these counts he's playing for Casey reserves as the sub and only because fevola's sick.

The only stat that really matters with jack is contested marks and contested possessions and goals kicked. On all these counts he's playing for Casey reserves as the sub and only because fevola's sick.

I'm a pretty ruthless [censored].

And I couldn't give a frack if we are giving games to anyone.

If they are destined to be apart of our flag hopes in a few years time, then expose them, develop them, and get them ready.

I couldn't give a frack about finishing 7th or 12th in 2011.

I want to win a fracking flag.

The only stat that really matters with jack is contested marks and contested possessions and goals kicked. On all these counts he's playing for Casey reserves as the sub and only because fevola's sick.

So your only indicator of performance for a 20 year old KP forward playing on guys bigger than him, stronger than him and more experienced than him is contested marks.

Very very silly post

I'm glad you have nothing to do with decision making in our club.

I'm a pretty ruthless [censored].

And I couldn't give a frack if we are giving games to anyone.

If they are destined to be apart of our flag hopes in a few years time, then expose them, develop them, and get them ready.

I couldn't give a frack about finishing 7th or 12th in 2011.

I want to win a fracking flag.

Frack Yeah

I'm not sure that Jack will make It or not and although I'm happy to give him more time I just don't like what I'm seeing at the moment. What I think will be the bigger mistake will be the drafting of Lucas Cook. I'm not sure why BP decided we needed a player like Cook. He's another lead up forward who gathers possessions much like Watts. IMO opinion we should have drafted Jack Darling who's strong and attacks the ball on the ground and in the air.

I just fear we have to many athletes and not enough footballers

I'm a pretty ruthless [censored].

And I couldn't give a frack if we are giving games to anyone.

If they are destined to be apart of our flag hopes in a few years time, then expose them, develop them, and get them ready.

I couldn't give a frack about finishing 7th or 12th in 2011.

I want to win a fracking flag.

IMNTHO this is a bit of an extreme position

Development is not just about getting as many games into the youngsters as possible

Its also about teaching them tactics, skills and winning games (oh and measurable personal improvement too)

I agree this year is somewhat of a development year but not completely at the expense of other measurement criteria than games played

Four years into the rebuild and the coach, team and individuals must show some improvement (or suffer some consequences)

I get frustrated like others and I have to keep reminding myself its only 3 rounds in so there is plenty of time to get back on track, but please get a move on.

Is every cent being spent on specialist coaching at the club and more importantly is our club getting value for money ? And if it isn't, should it be reviewed ? should the right specialists be poached ?

It's been touched on and questioned some individuals "hunger" and "perceived softness" at the contest. watching fox sports specialist commentators have expressed the lack of knowledge they think Jack Watts has on the field in where to go, or when to go and get the ball. Occassionally Watts will do something special and then be comfortable with himself and float around. They think that he needs to receive specialist coaching in where to go, when to work hard and get the pill, when to be physical and impose himself on a contest again and again, etc.

to me it's an important year where those players who have had 20-40 odd games - particularly those who were drafted early, really start to show something.

IMNTHO this is a bit of an extreme position

Development is not just about getting as many games into the youngsters as possible

Its also about teaching them tactics, skills and winning games (oh and measurable personal improvement too)

I agree this year is somewhat of a development year but not completely at the expense of other measurement criteria than games played

Four years into the rebuild and the coach, team and individuals must show some improvement (or suffer some consequences)

I get frustrated like others and I have to keep reminding myself its only 3 rounds in so there is plenty of time to get back on track, but please get a move on.

It is extreme.

And all things being equal - Watts would have earned as many games as he deserves.

But things aren't equal.

I also know there is a balance.

But I don't think Casey will teach Jack more than playing AFL and that is my stance on that.

It is extreme.

And all things being equal - Watts would have earned as many games as he deserves.

But things aren't equal.

I also know there is a balance.

But I don't think Casey will teach Jack more than playing AFL and that is my stance on that.

I didn't say anything about Casey

I said we should be trying to improve our performance too this year and finishing 12th would not be acceptable

Without improvement we may not see a "window" at all

I'm not sure that Jack will make It or not and although I'm happy to give him more time I just don't like what I'm seeing at the moment. What I think will be the bigger mistake will be the drafting of Lucas Cook. I'm not sure why BP decided we needed a player like Cook. He's another lead up forward who gathers possessions much like Watts. IMO opinion we should have drafted Jack Darling who's strong and attacks the ball on the ground and in the air.

I just fear we have to many athletes and not enough footballers

Jesus... i have tried to restrain myself from posting in such crap threads,

BUT

GET A LIFE MATE, YOU HAVE NO IDEA, i mean really this 18 or this 20 year old isnt as good as another over developed under 18 or 20 year old player who can make an immediate impact.... are you a recruiter? yes hurley is of similar weight... well done, hurley ISNT a lead up forward....you can compare who ever you want but until they have played up or until there peak you want know who is "better"

lets stop the [censored] speculation, its post such as this, which there has been many of which make we wonder why people bother trying to support a football team or any such sport...... do you get any enjoyment from it? I DO!

your not supporting at all, Jack will deliver i just dont know if he can save the world or cure the worlds problems at the same time....

......

But I don't think Casey will teach Jack more than playing AFL and that is my stance on that.

But it might give him credibility with the other players if they don't "trust" him.

Jesus... i have tried to restrain myself from posting in such crap threads,

BUT

GET A LIFE MATE, YOU HAVE NO IDEA, i mean really this 18 or this 20 year old isnt as good as another over developed under 18 or 20 year old player who can make an immediate impact.... are you a recruiter? yes hurley is of similar weight... well done, hurley ISNT a lead up forward....you can compare who ever you want but until they have played up or until there peak you want know who is "better"

lets stop the [censored] speculation, its post such as this, which there has been many of which make we wonder why people bother trying to support a football team or any such sport...... do you get any enjoyment from it? I DO!

your not supporting at all, Jack will deliver i just dont know if he can save the world or cure the worlds problems at the same time....

Yeah I do have a fair idea what I'm talking about mate. I've played enough senior football and watched enough football to at least have an opinion. If you actually read my post properly I'm not attacking Watts or Cook I'm questioning our recruiters decisions to draft two of the same type of player. Obviously time will tell wont It. Also screaming at somebody to get a life on here doesn't make you a big man It just makes you look like a immature fool.

I didn't say anything about Casey

I said we should be trying to improve our performance too this year and finishing 12th would not be acceptable

Without improvement we may not see a "window" at all

It was an addendum to my earlier post, not a direct reply to you.

But it might give him credibility with the other players if they don't "trust" him.

Give him credibility?

Please explain.

I'm not sure that Jack will make It or not and although I'm happy to give him more time I just don't like what I'm seeing at the moment. What I think will be the bigger mistake will be the drafting of Lucas Cook. I'm not sure why BP decided we needed a player like Cook. He's another lead up forward who gathers possessions much like Watts. IMO opinion we should have drafted Jack Darling who's strong and attacks the ball on the ground and in the air.

I just fear we have to many athletes and not enough footballers

I trend to agree with this view. I would like to have seen us draft a pack-splitting Chris Dawes/Trav Cloke type forward to compliment Watts. I'm sure Cook will be a good player but in the heat of finals footy, when much of the game is spent muscling the ball forward and throwing it on the boot, you need that type of "go-to" player.

Edited April 13, 201114 yr by Range Rover

But it might give him credibility with the other players if they don't "trust" him.

This issue of not "trusting" Jack has just sprung up out of nowhere. I doubt that a single one of us has a clue what Jack's teammates think of him, other than they'd hopefully all be aware that at this stage he remains a key ingredient for our future success.

I trend to agree with this view. I would like to have to seen us draft a pack-splitting Chris Dawes/Trav Cloke type forward to compliment Watts. I'm sure Cook will be a good player but in the heat of finals footy, when much of the game is spent muscling the ball forward and throwing it on the boot, you need that type of "go-to" player.

That's all I was trying to say. A bigger bodied aggressive type would compliment Watts and Jurrah. Yes I'm sure Cook will be ok but I just question is it what we need. Anyway its getting a bit off topic so before I get told I have no idea and to get a life I'll stop.

That's all I was trying to say. A bigger bodied aggressive type would compliment Watts and Jurrah. Yes I'm sure Cook will be ok but I just question is it what we need. Anyway its getting a bit off topic so before I get told I have no idea and to get a life I'll stop.

Alright....too late....you have no idea and you need to get a life!....

I think Stef Martin is the prime example on how long it takes to fully transition from being a basketballer to Footballer.

He and Jack have a lot in common.

Similar backgrounds - both in Basketball. Both big guys and late starters to football

Martin has had the potential for many years and now finally we are seeing great signs from him.

Martin now has a muscular strong fit body and its doing wonders to the way he plays. Showing so much confidence in his marking and great composure as well. He gains confidence and feeds of the knowledge that he has a strong body. It’s that simple.

Jack Watts is in the same boat and he will get there.