Games are won and lost in the midfield.

35 Inside 50s??!!

That is appalling. They miss targets, and at times they can be as lazy with presenting themsleves as options across half back as the 'halycon' days of 07-09. They retreat into their shell at the slightest nudge and I am growing sick and tired of it. Davey becomes the lone hand when it comes to run and carry and the rest grab it and blindly kick it, or attempt to take on the world - meaning about 4 players - themselves.

Let's get serious, OD. You have not been patient with Watts and you're expecting things that he can't deliver. And intensity for a 19 year old is big learning curve. One Brad Green skirted packs and avoided collisions - he willed himself to as brave as he is now.

Watts' issues at 19 don't concern me, him growing out of them when we need him, does.

You are right "rpfc" I do not have much patience for him.

I try not to enter these discussions in the hope that a couple of years will pass and he will be wonderful.

However I watch him play and I cannot get over the feeling that he gets game after game

when his results suggest he should be playing at Casey.

Obviously much better minds than mind believe he has what it takes and it is just a case of game time.

Believe it or not I hope you are all right.

But would he get all this game time if he had been pick 30?

You are right "rpfc" I do not have much patience for him.

I try not to enter these discussions in the hope that a couple of years will pass and he will be wonderful.

However I watch him play and I cannot get over the feeling that he gets game after game

when his results suggest he should be playing at Casey.

Obviously much better minds than mind believe he has what it takes and it is just a case of game time.

Believe it or not I hope you are all right.

But would he get all this game time if he had been pick 30?

Oh, hypotheticals?

Fun...

He is an big investment and he required thatt investment because of his potential.

A potential that all reasonable people knew he couldn't get near until he was 22+.

He is a teenager and is starting to fill out.

James Frawley was nowhere a couple years ago, as was Colin Garland...

Posters who say "I will try to show patience" and then even before the next season starts begin their handwringing and whinging again, infuriate me.

You're not even showing patience with your ability to have more patience...

Oh, hypotheticals?

Fun...

He is an big investment and he required thatt investment because of his potential.

A potential that all reasonable people knew he couldn't get near until he was 22+.

He is a teenager and is starting to fill out.

James Frawley was nowhere a couple years ago, as was Colin Garland...

Posters who say "I will try to show patience" and then even before the next season starts begin their handwringing and whinging again, infuriate me.

You're not even showing patience with your ability to have more patience...

+1 !!!

James Frawley was nowhere a couple years ago, as was Colin Garland...

Frawley was 5 months older than Watts at the comparitive time of their draft - surely you are not suggesting this means you just subtract a year from their comparison!

In 2009, his third year at the club, Frawley played 20 games, won most improved and the following year became AA playing genuine KPD

That is what Watts will have to do to this year and next year to equate to Frawley, do you think that looks likely right now? Right now he does not even resemble a key position player

again I'm not getting stuck into him for fun I just wish defensive supporters would be a touch more objective and realistic.

Posters who say "I will try to show patience" and then even before the next season starts begin their handwringing and whinging again, infuriate me.

Posters who say "give the kid time because (insert excuses)" infinitely, despite what is actually happening on the field, infuriate me

There have been too many Brad Millers at this club who stuck around and never stepped up and IMO it has a bit do with this 'patient' attitude so many have. Fire up!

Is this the appropriate time to remind everyone that the player currently regarded as probably the best CHF in the game didn't start to really come-on as a player until he was 21!!!

In his 3rd season, Riewoldt was 20, Jack is only 19, and even then reiwoldt still played mainly up the ground. He collected around 16 possessions per game but averaged just 1.4 goals per game. The next season, when he was finally a stronger build, then he started to take the league by storm. Jack is 3cm taller than Riewoldt, which has to be factored into his physical development, and still has two years until he's the same age Riewoldt was when he started taking over.

So maybe we're just being a little too hard on the 19yo kid. If he misses round 1, it'll disappointing, but its not the end of the world.

Is this the appropriate time to remind everyone that the player currently regarded as probably the best CHF in the game didn't start to really come-on as a player until he was 21!!!

In his 3rd season, Riewoldt was 20, Jack is only 19, and even then reiwoldt still played mainly up the ground. He collected around 16 possessions per game but averaged just 1.4 goals per game. The next season, when he was finally a stronger build, then he started to take the league by storm. Jack is 3cm taller than Riewoldt, which has to be factored into his physical development, and still has two years until he's the same age Riewoldt was when he started taking over.

So maybe we're just being a little too hard on the 19yo kid. If he misses round 1, it'll disappointing, but its not the end of the world.

Thank you. KPPs don't just evolve over night. They take time. It is really annoying when people say we are being too patient with him. He's only 19. Can anybody name a player who dominated the competition when they were 19? Watts will come good. He just needs to grow into his body.

His age may be relevant in terms of his ability to take marks, hold his ground in marking contests etc etc but his age is completely irrelevant to the issue of intensity at the ball and man.

That's my concern - he doesn't attack the ball or the contest. It's difficult to change this and I only recall one Melbourne player really making a difference in his game in this area and that's James McDonald. After a few years playing an outside game he came out one season and changed his attack on the contest - unfortunately later on that year he did his knee but when he came back he continued on where he left off.

Oh, hypotheticals?

Fun...

He is an big investment and he required thatt investment because of his potential.

A potential that all reasonable people knew he couldn't get near until he was 22+.

He is a teenager and is starting to fill out.

James Frawley was nowhere a couple years ago, as was Colin Garland...

Posters who say "I will try to show patience" and then even before the next season starts begin their handwringing and whinging again, infuriate me.

You're not even showing patience with your ability to have more patience...

Oh please it is only one person's view.

Last time I checked we live in a democracy

you are allow to express your view even if it turns out to be wrong.

Hold it together.

If you get so up set talking about JW then don't read the items that way you can be bliss fully un aware

Of the ramblings like mine that don't suit your view.

Have a nice day rpfc

The sky won't fall because of my view.

He will probably kick 4 on saturday and we will all be happy.

Can anybody name a player who dominated the competition when they were 19?

That is absurd, who in this thread is asking for 'domination'? I personally am asking for any sort of valuable contribution at all

Frawley was 5 months older than Watts at the comparitive time of their draft - surely you are not suggesting this means you just subtract a year from their comparison!

In 2009, his third year at the club, Frawley played 20 games, won most improved and the following year became AA playing genuine KPD

That is what Watts will have to do to this year and next year to equate to Frawley, do you think that looks likely right now? Right now he does not even resemble a key position player

again I'm not getting stuck into him for fun I just wish defensive supporters would be a touch more objective and realistic.

Jack was still at school in 2009. 2010 was the first year he concentrated on AFL. He is a 196cm teenager. The season hasn't started yet.

You have posted that he plays like a woman.

James Frawley was nowhere before 2009. About 20 games before improving in his third year concentrating on AFL. And AA in his fourth.

These are all pertinent facts. They're not helpful to your unfair argument - which is why you reject them - but they are relevant nevertheless.

So if we follow the superheated development of Frawley then Watts can have another 'making his way' year before improvement in 2012 and consistent perfomer in 2013.

Then you can bemoan his girlish play all you like.

Thank you. KPPs don't just evolve over night. They take time. It is really annoying when people say we are being too patient with him. He's only 19. Can anybody name a player who dominated the competition when they were 19? Watts will come good. He just needs to grow into his body.

Jack will be a great player for the club. At the moment as he is developing and he may not win a spot every week.

I think as supporters we need to do just that....support.

In my view that requires a shift in focus by many here to the positives. Its positive that our coaches are setting high expectations for a place in the team but that doesn't mean a player wont make it in the longer term.

I am sure players cant resist reading some of this stuff (we know the media does) so we should bear that in mind before letting rip.

I remain very excited at the potential of our list and i reckon most of them are going to make it to premeirship player status.

Oh please it is only one person's view.

Last time I checked we live in a democracy

you are allow to express your view even if it turns out to be wrong.

Hold it together.

If you get so up set talking about JW then don't read the items that way you can be bliss fully un aware

Of the ramblings like mine that don't suit your view.

Have a nice day rpfc

The sky won't fall because of my view.

He will probably kick 4 on saturday and we will all be happy.

Jeez...

Of course, we live in a democracy, and on an open internet forum.

I am not saying you cannot post what you post, I am simply criticising what you post.

So don't give me that 'woe is the one who challenges me' meme...

And as I have said - him kicking 4 as a 19 year old doesn't concern me. Him being a consistent performer when 22+, does...

He has got some issues to work out, but to constantly post on the evidence of pre-season games what some have posted, is completely criticisable.

Oh please it is only one person's view.

Last time I checked we live in a democracy

you are allow to express your view even if it turns out to be wrong.

Hold it together.

If you get so up set talking about JW then don't read the items that way you can be bliss fully un aware

Of the ramblings like mine that don't suit your view.

Have a nice day rpfc

The sky won't fall because of my view.

He will probably kick 4 on saturday and we will all be happy.

I won't if those four goasl are from soft free kicks, he only picks up those four possesssions and flounces around the pack making theatrical attempts to get at the ball and/or man (look at me coach i'm going in hard!)

This thread was intially about Watts apparently being told he was a chance of missing round 1 selection because of form, not "will he become a champion". On form he would not be picked if Round 1 was today. If he doesn't perfom today don't pick him. As noted by another poster it won't be the end of the world, in fact who knows it it might even help him (as well as sending a strong message to the rest of the team that only those 100% commited will play).

Bailey has made a point of saying recently that this year is about improvement (in his parlance winning more quarters) as has Jimmy (winnig more games). To do this they need to, from round 1 , pick the team who gives us the best chance of winning as opposed to the development teams of the last few seasons. If JW is not in the best 22 don't pick him. Period

A contributing factor to Watts lack of possessions is that he is consistently ignored by other players...

On numerous times against Brisbane he was clearly free and the player with the ball opted to either kick back into traffic or find another target.... A clear example of this is when Jack was free on the fat side of the ground coming out of defense and the player with the ball looked at him turned back into traffic and kicked down the line causing a turnover and subsequent goal to the lions....

You need to be able to get the cheap kicks to build your confidence but his team mates at times are not helping out...

I also suspect there may be some of this happening though I did not see the Brisbane game. If so then this raises a more disturbing question. How are the players jelling as a team? Haven't seen much TEAM ELAN so far in the practice games and for most of last season BTW. IMO appears a team of individuals who need some extra challenge to play with any cohesion.

I'm starting to think I should have kept that little bit of info to myself. Settle people. If he gets a few kicks tonight it might all change.

That's my concern - he doesn't attack the ball or the contest. It's difficult to change this and I only recall one Melbourne player really making a difference in his game in this area and that's James McDonald. After a few years playing an outside game he came out one season and changed his attack on the contest - unfortunately later on that year he did his knee but when he came back he continued on where he left off.

I think it's highly likely to change once he actually grows into his frame and has the added confidence in his body.

I have definitely seen glimpses of the potential that saw him go pick 1.

He won't be consistent until he matures, something that will frustrate those with unrealistic expectations.

I trust the club to make the decisions as to how that development is best nurtured.

I Will be interested to see if SD's inside info proves correct as it may give more of an insight into the club's thinking. It won't change anything regarding the reality that JW is going to take more time - I think we always knew that.

That's my concern - he doesn't attack the ball or the contest. It's difficult to change this and I only recall one Melbourne player really making a difference in his game in this area and that's James McDonald. After a few years playing an outside game he came out one season and changed his attack on the contest - unfortunately later on that year he did his knee but when he came back he continued on where he left off.

I would say the current captain would be one who did the same. He didn't become an inside player, but he developed a courage and a bravery that is second to none at the club.

I won't if those four goasl are from soft free kicks, he only picks up those four possesssions and flounces around the pack making theatrical attempts to get at the ball and/or man (look at me coach i'm going in hard!)

That's my main concern, I watched him like a hawk last week and that's what I saw too

BTW, Steamin' only said he "might" miss selection. He won't but Steamin wasn't saying it was "done".

Why bother posting it at all then? There's about 30 blokes who "might" miss selection.

SD was clearly implying that it was done, even if his words didn't spell that out.

I would say the current captain would be one who did the same. He didn't become an inside player, but he developed a courage and a bravery that is second to none at the club.

I'm not talking about courage.

Is this the appropriate time to remind everyone that the player currently regarded as probably the best CHF in the game didn't start to really come-on as a player until he was 21!!!

In his 3rd season, Riewoldt was 20, Jack is only 19, and even then reiwoldt still played mainly up the ground. He collected around 16 possessions per game but averaged just 1.4 goals per game. The next season, when he was finally a stronger build, then he started to take the league by storm. Jack is 3cm taller than Riewoldt, which has to be factored into his physical development, and still has two years until he's the same age Riewoldt was when he started taking over.

So maybe we're just being a little too hard on the 19yo kid. If he misses round 1, it'll disappointing, but its not the end of the world.

Wrong.

Riewolt spent most of his first year injured, then in his second year won the rising star award and St Kilda Best and Fairest.

Why do people continue to use this comparison? Riewolt was a star from the time he arrived at St Kilda. You would struggle to find a worse comparison in the 114 year history of the AFL.

That's my main concern, I watched him like a hawk last week and that's what I saw too

Enter Brendan Goddard into the discussion - drafted 2002 first pick - first season was 2003 whilst completing VCE. Huge question marks surrounded him until he had a breakout season in 2006 ! There were calls early on in the piece by less than patient fans to trade him. Has basically been a superstar in 2009/2010 only.

Was he worth perservering with until his 4th season before he started to produce ?

All the criticism that has been levelled at JW was levelled at Goddard as well. Not hard enough at the contest, not producing.

How shattered would you be if Watts turned out like Goddard ?

I fall squarely in the "he's 19 years old - I need to be patient" camp.

This thread is the worst in a looooong time on Demonland....

He was a standout in game 1, he struggled game 2, was average (like everyone else) in game 3.... Game 4 is still to come.

If the MFC have already chosen their round 1 side before another practice game and 2 weeks of training then we are a second rate, pointless, borderline pathetic football department. Anyone who has ever played sport at a meaningful level or coached at any level would agree.

I fall squarely in the "he's 19 years old - I need to be patient" camp.

Me too, give him all the time he needs. But whilst last year you could justify playing him when his form didn't warrant it, in order to further his development, that time has passed. He should now only be selected if his form and level of intensity warrant it. If it doesn't then he should play with Casey (or the dees mgoos if/when they come along) until it does