On 23/12/2010 at 03:44, Trident said:

Hinch poses some interesting questions

The Talking Beard is right here, the courts are dealing with a subject they still do not know how to handle yet. This is why the girl in question knows full well she can push the boundries.

The Press conference at St.kilda was very dodgy, but i expect that from them. This little gem is far from over. Even the police are in trouble..

  On 23/12/2010 at 05:37, jnrmac said:

Except for the fact this girl appears to be a pathological liar or a cunning witch whose story changes with the wind.

And she wants revenge on the Saints but is threatening to out Carlton and Swans players??

There is no doubt she is a tragic figure and if you had a 16yo like that I'm not sure what you could do to deal with it. She appears to be indiscriminate with her rage. What has NIck Dal Santo done to earn her wrath?

Hinch is no holier than though figure either. He does raise some good points but is also happy to use his voice in the media to further his own gains.

Welcome to the brave (or not so brave) new world

She's a child and she is lost.

I completely blame her parents - where the hell are they when all this is going on?

  On 23/12/2010 at 06:28, Keyser Söze said:

She's a child and she is lost.

I completely blame her parents - where the hell are they when all this is going on?

According to media reports she was with them in QLD. Blame the parents ??? Yeah society today "Blame someone else and take no responsibilty for your actions". The AFL & STKILDA are [censored] themselves.

reminds me of sally and her golf club.

  On 23/12/2010 at 06:51, Steamin Demon said:

According to media reports she was with them in QLD. Blame the parents ??? Yeah society today "Blame someone else and take no responsibilty for your actions". The AFL & STKILDA are [censored] themselves.

Stop getting worked up and look at this situation calmly.

I have no responsibility in this, so there is none to shift.

The girl is a minor.

She is a child and obviously is getting poor or no guidance from her parents.

A lot of the blame should fall on them.

i think the days of "gay abandon" are gone....these guys have no opportunity to have any enjoyment without repurcussions.

I don't care if they are gay or just blokes having some laughs but obviously the footy trips away to Thailand etc will have a swag of journos acompanying them and monitoring their behaviour.

Sucks being an AFL footballer...

Just clarifying a couple of things for myself - correct me if I'm wrong.

The Official AFL / St Kilda version of events is -

1 - A St Kilda player got a 16 year old girl with mental health issues pregnant, and ditched her

2 - the same player keeps a stash of soft-porn of his teammates unsecured on his computer,

3 - which the girl was somehow able to copy and keep and has now, in an fit of mentally deranged anger and attention seeking, posted a couple of them on her facebook page

Well, I'm glad that's all cleared up.

It will be of real interest to see how the sting in the tail of all this plays out - ironically, relating to the use of social media and email to denigrate and vilify the girl, back around the original 'incident'.

I just hope that Melbourne knows when to hold off on the aggressive response, and take the courageous path to contrition when one of our players screws up seriously. That's the real test of club character and the only way to keep things 'safe' in the long run.

I love this line,

"I'm not looking for money. I'm looking for a deal to tell my side of the story."

id rather be a sinner than cry with the saints, the sinners have much more fun...

  On 23/12/2010 at 13:50, Little Goffy said:

Just clarifying a couple of things for myself - correct me if I'm wrong.

The Official AFL / St Kilda version of events is -

1 - A St Kilda player got a 16 year old girl with mental health issues pregnant, and ditched her

2 - the same player keeps a stash of soft-porn of his teammates unsecured on his computer,

3 - which the girl was somehow able to copy and keep and has now, in an fit of mentally deranged anger and attention seeking, posted a couple of them on her facebook page

Well, I'm glad that's all cleared up.

It will be of real interest to see how the sting in the tail of all this plays out - ironically, relating to the use of social media and email to denigrate and vilify the girl, back around the original 'incident'.

I just hope that Melbourne knows when to hold off on the aggressive response, and take the courageous path to contrition when one of our players screws up seriously. That's the real test of club character and the only way to keep things 'safe' in the long run.

I still get the impression that the Courts (The Laws that Govern) and even some Lawyers still do not understand computer generated photos & the social networks. There is no way i can see how photographs can be suppressed. If the Saints & the players win this case, it will change the way social computer networks around the world are used.

I heard that lawyer Steven J Peake this morning on radio saying that to put up a photograph on facebook you had to have permission....How can that ever be policed???

That is why i think the saints would all be shaking in there shoes right now....The ourts cannot stop these photos moving around...copies become originals.

I don't know how people can condemn the girl's parents in this situation. They have an emotionally ill child and, in all likelihood, are not equipped to deal with her.

They are the victims of her illness.

  On 24/12/2010 at 06:40, Deeman said:

I don't know how people can condemn the girl's parents in this situation. They have an emotionally ill child and, in all likelihood, are not equipped to deal with her.

They are the victims of her illness.

But why is she 'emotionally ill'?

You are a result of your environment.

They have some 'splaining to do.

Has anybody come out of this well?

The young girl at the centre of the storm needs some help and there doesn't seem to be any mechanism available whereby she can be persuaded to seek counseling to help her overcome her problems. She's been alienated from her parents who seem to be at wit's end as to what they should do so they appear to have abandoned their daughter (probably the wrong thing to do - they need counseling too).

The St. Kilda Football Club and the players come out badly in the way they've gone in with a sledgehammer (covering up their weakness and desperation with a publicly over aggressive stance). If their team had shown the same aggressive attitude on the MCG a few month's ago, then the rest of the footy world might not have had to suffer the ignominy of a Collingw&%$ premiership. The AFL sits in the background endorsing their club's conduct. Nick Riewoldt is mad at teammate Sam Gilbert, painted as a cad for his treatment of his ex-girlfiend (getting her pregnant and dumping her) and of his skipper (failing to destroy the picture). Saints fans are arguing which is the worse sin - the former or the latter. Riewoldt has been hurt by his teammate's betrayal but please ... give us a break Nick. Those of us who have seen the happy snaps (ok, I'm guilty too) know these shots aren't random but were posed. They make Nick, Zac and the other Nick look like, well ... dickheads and Riewoldt comes out of this rather poorly IMO.

I accept that Riewoldt probably had nothing to do with the girl who can't be named. However, his claims at the press conference of victimhood at the hands of teammate Gilbert ring hollow with me. Given that the picture was clearly posed, his claim that he’d done nothing more than get out of bed naked and been photographed is a bit of a stretch. Take responsibility for your behaviour skipper!

There are players and spectators of 16½ other clubs who are going to be hounding the Saints over this with stupid inane sledging (I apologise in advance for my contribution) about your size and sexual preferences. You'll have to wear it because you deserve it.

The cop who's been charged will have his day(s) in court. I won't prejudge him but he seems to be deep in doggy do anyway.

Dayne Beams, the last known boyfriend, doesn't come out of it well (nor apparently some of his teammates who let off some steam after the grand final), nor the media, nor the health system or the legal system or the overall culture surrounding the game.

I used to scoff at NSW and the NRL system that seems to be unable to throw off it's systemic problems.

We're no better off down here.

  On 27/12/2010 at 21:46, Whispering_Jack said:

Dayne Beams, the last known boyfriend, doesn't come out of it well (nor apparently some of his teammates who let off some steam after the grand final), nor the media, nor the health system or the legal system or the overall culture surrounding the game.

I used to scoff at NSW and the NRL system that seems to be unable to throw off it's systemic problems.

We're no better off down here.

Was he in one of the nude photos? It is a big blow up over nothing really. After two weeks, does anyone really care what happens to any of these idiots.

  On 27/12/2010 at 22:28, agent_orange said:

Was he in one of the nude photos?

Not unless he was under one of the beds.

Actually, Beams apparently dumped her when her activities with the Saints players came to light.

I agree that most of us should be getting tired of this sordid affair but on the other hand, it still has plenty of legs.

One thing I'm reasonably sure about is that there are no photos of any Melbourne players in her album. That story was one of the many lies being told by a number of people in this cast of thousands.

Yeah, the whole thing has degenerated into pretty pathetic and sordid and not much more.

I'm pretty much over it. More guys were areseholes and the girl they scewed over hit them back where it hurt.

What we learnt -

AFL culture still needs more anti-[censored] programs, and individuals guilty of spectatcular arseholery should be held to account at the time.

AFL player's privacy is still an issue.

Woop de doo.

Anyway, I presume since this is another no-win situation involving St Kilda, we'll all be back again next week...

  On 28/12/2010 at 00:11, Little Goffy said:

AFL culture still needs more anti-[censored] programs, and individuals guilty of spectatcular arseholery should be held to account at the time.

WTF? Ridiculous.

Here's a little something for you.....

The AFL has approximately 800 players on its books between the ages of 18 to early 30's.

Victoria alone has millions in the same bracket.

AFL players are a cross-section of young men from all walks of life.

The AFL do a tremendous amount of work in teh field of respect and privacy.

Young males in Victoria, footballers or not, are engaging in this and far worse conduct every single weekend. Sexual assaults, brawls, drunken escapades.

AFL players on the whole do extremely well to avoid all this the majority of the time, and for their age group, would represent a very small percentage in comparison to their non-afl peers.

Bottom line. They are all young men growing up in a big bad world. Have a look at history, nothing has changed, sometimes young men will [censored] up. That doesn't excuse what they do, but what it does suggest is that given that AFL players are in a high risk environment given large salaries and high public profiles, it has been testament to their work that there is only a handful of inciidents in any one year they have to deal with.

The same cannot be said for society as a whole.

Everyone is quick to condemn them with the cop-out that they are role models. They are young men with skills. Most of the time they are role models, but sometimes they will not be. Perhaps the are just a reflection of our current society as a whole and in fact, it is the more pornographic tendancies of society that has lead to this...

Until you have walked in the shoes of an AFL player, you cannot know what it is like to live their kind of existence.

  On 28/12/2010 at 11:43, Grandson of a gun said:

Bottom line. They are all young men growing up in a big bad world.

St. Nick is 28...

  On 23/12/2010 at 07:52, Keyser Söze said:

The girl is a minor.

According to Victorian Laws the Girl is not a minor. She was apparently 16 when this all started. 16 and above the law treats as not a minor.

Just thought i would clarify that point.

  On 28/12/2010 at 12:09, why you little said:

According to Victorian Laws the Girl is not a minor. She was apparently 16 when this all started. 16 and above the law treats as not a minor.

Just thought i would clarify that point.

Semantics aside, I'm pretty sure you would prefer these footy players not have sex with 16 year olds, but.

And not impregnate, then dump, then have the club attempt to sweep it under the carpet with the help of the AFL and the PoPo, and then make themselves out to be victims because the whole world has seen their peepee?

I guess it comes down to, motives aside, whether you think a 16/17 year old being treated in such a way by mid-20s AFL players, a footy club, the AFL, and the Police is equivalent to getting your giblets splashed over the internet.

Note: I posted earlier I was staying out of this. It's a mixed bag - the photos are none of my business (although NDS needs a SMPE) what they do with their homoerotic spare time is worth none of mine but the stories that have I heard over the last few days aren't good for the Saints and footy in general, and I am comfortable commenting on that.

  On 27/12/2010 at 21:46, Whispering_Jack said:

Has anybody come out of this well?

The young girl at the centre of the storm needs some help and there doesn't seem to be any mechanism available whereby she can be persuaded to seek counseling to help her overcome her problems. She's been alienated from her parents who seem to be at wit's end as to what they should do so they appear to have abandoned their daughter (probably the wrong thing to do - they need counseling too).

The St. Kilda Football Club and the players come out badly in the way they've gone in with a sledgehammer (covering up their weakness and desperation with a publicly over aggressive stance). If their team had shown the same aggressive attitude on the MCG a few month's ago, then the rest of the footy world might not have had to suffer the ignominy of a Collingw&%$ premiership. The AFL sits in the background endorsing their club's conduct. Nick Riewoldt is mad at teammate Sam Gilbert, painted as a cad for his treatment of his ex-girlfiend (getting her pregnant and dumping her) and of his skipper (failing to destroy the picture). Saints fans are arguing which is the worse sin - the former or the latter. Riewoldt has been hurt by his teammate's betrayal but please ... give us a break Nick. Those of us who have seen the happy snaps (ok, I'm guilty too) know these shots aren't random but were posed. They make Nick, Zac and the other Nick look like, well ... [censored] and Riewoldt comes out of this rather poorly IMO.

I accept that Riewoldt probably had nothing to do with the girl who can't be named. However, his claims at the press conference of victimhood at the hands of teammate Gilbert ring hollow with me. Given that the picture was clearly posed, his claim that he’d done nothing more than get out of bed naked and been photographed is a bit of a stretch. Take responsibility for your behaviour skipper!

There are players and spectators of 16½ other clubs who are going to be hounding the Saints over this with stupid inane sledging (I apologise in advance for my contribution) about your size and sexual preferences. You'll have to wear it because you deserve it.

The cop who's been charged will have his day(s) in court. I won't prejudge him but he seems to be deep in doggy do anyway.

Dayne Beams, the last known boyfriend, doesn't come out of it well (nor apparently some of his teammates who let off some steam after the grand final), nor the media, nor the health system or the legal system or the overall culture surrounding the game.

I used to scoff at NSW and the NRL system that seems to be unable to throw off it's systemic problems.

We're no better off down here.

Beautifull Jack, great work there. I think exactly the same, but didn't want to risk another slamming from the pack for taking an understanding, of the nature of psychological things, point of view.

I feel very sorry for this kid/adolescent trying desperately to be a big wheel in a bruising media world.

IMO, she's in danger of self harm projecting forward, unless this is handled well by the AFL. It's time for them to step in & take charge, stopping the saints from self destructing through their rough house legal ways. If, this kid gets jammed up & hung out through the courts, I can imagine self harm down the track.

This would be just about the End publicly for the Saints.

C'mon Andrew, Vlad Demitriou... Step up & take a fatherly approach to this very sordid affair. Before people get really hurt.

  On 28/12/2010 at 13:59, rpfc said:

Semantics aside, I'm pretty sure you would prefer these footy players not have sex with 16 year olds, but.

And not impregnate, then dump, then have the club attempt to sweep it under the carpet with the help of the AFL and the PoPo, and then make themselves out to be victims because the whole world has seen their peepee?

I guess it comes down to, motives aside, whether you think a 16/17 year old being treated in such a way by mid-20s AFL players, a footy club, the AFL, and the Police is equivalent to getting your giblets splashed over the internet.

Note: I posted earlier I was staying out of this. It's a mixed bag - the photos are none of my business (although NDS needs a SMPE) what they do with their homoerotic spare time is worth none of mine but the stories that have I heard over the last few days aren't good for the Saints and footy in general, and I am comfortable commenting on that.

I don't agree with what has happened to that girl at all rp, i was just pointing out a Law in Victoria which would have influenced any court proceedings.

At 16 a person in Victoria can have consensual sex in most circumstances without invoking statutory rape.

Legally you are a child until 18. That is the law.

  On 29/12/2010 at 00:11, Franky_31 said:

At 16 a person in Victoria can have consensual sex in most circumstances without invoking statutory rape.

Legally you are a child until 18. That is the law.

That's how I see it.

The exact definition of "minor", to my understanding, refers to the latter.

edit: Semantics!

I think we should all be able to agree, that irrespective of how the young girl retaliated, she has been appallingly mistreated by the Saints.

Hopefully this episode will serve as a warning to young girls and AFL players alike.

I won't hold my breath.

I wasn't implying that AFL players are more likely to be bastards than the rest of society, or that the AFL system doesn't run a wide range of programs on anti-bastardry.

By the same token,

Do you seriously think that only a few incidents a year making it to the media is any kind of indication of overall standards? AFL players and their apologists seem to like the idea that the rest of the world is just out to get them - girls are asking for it and just get sooky afterwards (just find the St.Kilda-originating emails that went out about the 'Schoolgirl', who apparently had made sleeping with AFL players some kind of collector-card game...), and fights only start because of people 'headhunting' them.

The media gets worked up too easily once something is 'out in the open', and that often looks ridiculous. But 'Buddy Franklin was rude to me when I asked him for a drink in a bar' doesn't make much news. 'Colin Sylvia was a total tool when I knew him back in Bendigo' isn't front pager.

AFL players aren't being asked to be flawless characters, they are being asked to -

refrain from sexually assaulting people,

try not to put yourself into a coma from drug overdoses,

not wear giant novelty dildos while wandering around Federation Square in the middle of the day,

avoid getting teenage girls pregnant and then ditching them cold,

don't make videos about chicken rape

limit their involvement with known organised crime figures

and generally avoid boozing it up and hanging around nightclubs after about 2am

How hard is that? Seriously, how hard is that?