It's close at the end of Richmond game - we are leaking goals for some reason and Grimes is having an effect but not much.

Bailey sends Trengove down to the backline to do the customary swap with Grimes to develop his defensive capabilities.

Trengove gets beaten one-out twice and we lose the game - everyone at the G knows that Grimes would have done a better job. I know Trengove will be that much better for the experience.

Bailey knows what he is doing.

Wins are great, but Bailey obviously has his own measurements (quarters won, reducing the size of 'slaughtering' periods) and, yes, we are young (younger than this time last year which should dampen your expectations but doesn't) but that doesn't mean that playing Gysberts in the midfield ahead of Jones is as good for the team on the day than it is for our flag prospects.

  On 18/12/2010 at 23:00, rpfc said:

It's close at the end of Richmond game - we are leaking goals for some reason and Grimes is having an effect but not much.

Bailey sends Trengove down to the backline to do the customary swap with Grimes to develop his defensive capabilities.

Trengove gets beaten one-out twice and we lose the game - everyone at the G knows that Grimes would have done a better job. I know Trengove will be that much better for the experience.

Bailey knows what he is doing.

Wins are great, but Bailey obviously has his own measurements (quarters won, reducing the size of 'slaughtering' periods) and, yes, we are young (younger than this time last year which should dampen your expectations but doesn't) but that doesn't mean that playing Gysberts in the midfield ahead of Jones is as good for the team on the day than it is for our flag prospects.

I agree with what you're saying in the Grimes/Trengove example but I don't think it's that much different to any move made by any coach during any game. If Malthouse were to send Steele Sidebottom to a back flank at a crucial time we don't measure it against Collingwoods long term development. Moves will be made, players will occasionally find themselves playing unfamiliar roles, it happens at all clubs. We shouldn't be looking to use it as an excuse.

As far as the Gys/Jones example goes, from now on form should dictate. Jones is only 23 next year and I don't think we can afford to just cast off blokes of his age and experience because we've got some shiny new toys. If we are going to develop into the power we all hope this group can become in a few years, we'll need the guys drafted just before we bottomed out to step up. Bate, Bartram, Dunn, Frawley, Garland and Petterd are all important if we're to come on quickly and have a sustained period at or near the top.

  On 18/12/2010 at 23:00, rpfc said:

It's close at the end of Richmond game - we are leaking goals for some reason and Grimes is having an effect but not much.

Bailey sends Trengove down to the backline to do the customary swap with Grimes to develop his defensive capabilities.

Trengove gets beaten one-out twice and we lose the game - everyone at the G knows that Grimes would have done a better job. I know Trengove will be that much better for the experience.

Bailey knows what he is doing.

Wins are great, but Bailey obviously has his own measurements (quarters won, reducing the size of 'slaughtering' periods) and, yes, we are young (younger than this time last year which should dampen your expectations but doesn't) but that doesn't mean that playing Gysberts in the midfield ahead of Jones is as good for the team on the day than it is for our flag prospects.

Yep. I do agree with you. Perhaps too it was Grimes' man who kicked the ball inside 50 to Trengove's man twice too!

That is life in football and lessons get learned...

You would agree though i'm sure that we need to start becoming a ruthless football team who start to develop a winning culture. Development also comes in the form of learning and knowing how to win games that perhaps they shouldn't, or have been playing badly but still get up, or they are getting over-run but they guts it out.

Learning to do this is what will make us into a finals team and ultimately help catapult us to the top.

As i have said previously, i don't think we will make the finals next year, however i think it is fair to expect around 10-11 wins whilst still developing our players...that would then satisfy the need to develop a winning culture, whilst nurturing and developing the youngsters and pushing closer to being a top 8 team.

I see next year as being the final year of 'the initial development' where players are given games to give them experience, rather than earning a position necessarily. If that gets us into the finals then so be it but i don't expect it and don't see the season as a failure if we don't.

However we will need a couple of years 'finals development' where we are playing in the finals and learning how to take our game to another level before we can really make a tilt at it, it won't simply be a case of 2011- 8-10, 2012- 4-6, 2013- Flag... look at the Geelongs, Collingwoods, St Kilda's etc. We need sustained finals experience and a hard nosed team. I envisage ladder position being something more like 2011- 8-10, 2012- 6-8, 2013- 3-6, 2014- 1-4, 2015- 1-2....

So the pass mark for 2011 will be a combination of many people's opinions:

-Achieving higher results in the KPI's that have been mentioned;

-Getting games and experience into our youngsters and blooding the likes of Blease, Tapscott and others;

-Winning 10-12 games.

And i reckon that's how the footy department sees it too.

  On 19/12/2010 at 00:44, Grandson of a gun said:

As i have said previously, i don't think we will make the finals next year, however i think it is fair to expect around 10-11 wins whilst still developing our players...that would then satisfy the need to develop a winning culture, whilst nurturing and developing the youngsters and pushing closer to being a top 8 team.

I see next year as being the final year of 'the initial development' where players are given games to give them experience, rather than earning a position necessarily. If that gets us into the finals then so be it but i don't expect it and don't see the season as a failure if we don't.

However we will need a couple of years 'finals development' where we are playing in the finals and learning how to take our game to another level before we can really make a tilt at it, it won't simply be a case of 2011- 8-10, 2012- 4-6, 2013- Flag... look at the Geelongs, Collingwoods, St Kilda's etc. We need sustained finals experience and a hard nosed team. I envisage ladder position being something more like 2011- 8-10, 2012- 6-8, 2013- 3-6, 2014- 1-4, 2015- 1-2....

So the pass mark for 2011 will be a combination of many people's opinions:

-Achieving higher results in the KPI's that have been mentioned;

-Getting games and experience into our youngsters and blooding the likes of Blease, Tapscott and others;

-Winning 10-12 games.

And i reckon that's how the footy department sees it too.

Yes that's the key.

A coach of any sport has three basic aims:

to manage teams (eg; getting them to be versatile),

develop players,

and win games.

If the MFC is happy to use 2011 as another developing year, then that's ok PROVIDED they make this clear to DB before the start of the year. I'd hate to see a situation where he develops Gysberts, Howe and Blease into key players and just misses out on the finals, and then the club turns around and says 'sorry Dean - near enough isn't good enough!'

  On 18/12/2010 at 20:59, DirtyDees DDC said:

He's won 15 1/2 games out of 66 - not a great record.

He won 8.5 from 22 last season.

  On 18/12/2010 at 12:29, dee-luded said:

I could see that maybe Grimes & Jones could switch zones one day, allowing Jack into the Mids.

I can imagine Jones in a pocket.

Got me thinking about how many players are pigeon holed. Often heard said "oh he is a backman or he is a mid or a forward" when in reality we don't really know, because the player hasn't been given a chance in another position. I am sure that most players can play in several positions and it becomes a mindset with the club and fans, without much basis, that they can only play in one position.

A perfect example is our games and goals record holder who started as a brilliant CHB.

PS. Before people jump down my throat, I am not saying every player can play in every position, just that there is more versatility to most players than they are given credit for.

Just watched the Dees v Swans game again and for those who want to see improvement, both individual and as a team, watch the game if you have a copy.

  On 21/12/2010 at 11:53, Redleg said:

Just watched the Dees v Swans game again and for those who want to see improvement, both individual and as a team, watch the game if you have a copy.

Yeah, I have it on my iPhone, it's awful quality though. I think I will try to compress it again.

Ahh, the internet. Where would we be wi...porn!

  On 18/12/2010 at 19:47, Whispering_Jack said:

In the practice match v Essendon at Visy Park earlier this year, he spent possibly 1½ quarters in the middle at the feet of Mark Jamar and while that combination was in operation, he picked up possessions at will and Melbourne dominated. The rest of the time, Essendon was in control and it won the game reasonably comfortably.

Yes I had forgotten about that, from memory he had a real purple patch where he got a stoppage clearance 4 out of 5 ballups or something and kicked a lovely goal. Completely owned them.

Massive Bump.

Expectations...

Probably didn't get there?

Maric will be delisted by the looks of it.

Very disappointed we won't be making finals.

  On 17/12/2010 at 03:54, jayceebee31 said:

What odds will you give me that the Dees end up on the ladder above the Saints,Bulldogs and the Kangas @ end of the year....come on E put up or shut up...

  On 17/12/2010 at 04:29, High Tower said:

125-1.

Wow. I shoulda taken those odds HT...

Sadly 2011 has been a very bad fail, irrespective of the last 3 rounds...our defeats have been awful.

  On 17/08/2011 at 10:54, rpfc said:

Massive Bump.

Expectations...

Probably didn't get there?

Regardless of what happens over the next 3 weeks, this year has been a fail.

Sure we've had our positives: Watts, Howe, Freo, Adelaide, Martin, Tapscott, Trengrove, Evans, Nicholson, Essendon, Gawn, Jones, McKenzie.

But the negatives have just been awful: Green, Jurrah, getting smashed by any half-decent team, Bennell, Maric, injuries, Morton, Davey, Bailey, Bate, Dunn and the f##king tom scully situation.

We've won a total of 24 quarters out of a possible 76 this year. That's less than 1/3 of quarters won across the year.

We've had just one game where we've won the entire four quarters - against Adelaide.

Lost 7 quarters by over 40 points or more

Lost 14 quarters by over 20 points or more

Epic fail whatever way you look at it.

  On 18/12/2010 at 05:55, jayceebee31 said:

I'll take it---tell me how I can get on...

Your loss.

Quality bump.

My pass is still 10 wins - still doable.

  On 18/08/2011 at 04:36, Striker475 said:

Quality bump.

My pass is still 10 wins - still doable.

Should we re-hire Bailey if we get there?

  On 18/08/2011 at 04:38, rpfc said:

Should we re-hire Bailey if we get there?

I maintained that 10 wins should have seen him get a 1 year extension with a 12-win performance target - with an option for a further two years if that target is made. Obviously the events of that game are unacceptable though, and it's no surprise that he was sacked based on it.

  On 18/08/2011 at 04:50, Striker475 said:

I maintained that 10 wins should have seen him get a 1 year extension with a 12-win performance target - with an option for a further two years if that target is made. Obviously the events of that game are unacceptable though, and it's no surprise that he was sacked based on it.

And thus the problem with wins being the measurement of a season...

  On 18/08/2011 at 05:05, rpfc said:

And thus the problem with wins being the measurement of a season...

And thus why I like your measurement thread a LOT.

It's bloody hard though. Would you call this season a success? I'm still leaning towards a yes. Last year was a better year for sure though.

  On 18/08/2011 at 07:23, Striker475 said:

And thus why I like your measurement thread a LOT.

It's bloody hard though. Would you call this season a success? I'm still leaning towards a yes. Last year was a better year for sure though.

I was going to say something but what's the point? (rhetorical)

  On 18/08/2011 at 07:31, daisycutter said:

I was going to say something but what's the point? (rhetorical)

It's obviously been a raging, unmitigated, titanic-sized success...

All that could go right, went in a direction.

It wasn't right, but it was definitely a direction!

  On 18/08/2011 at 07:41, rpfc said:

It's obviously been a raging, unmitigated, titanic-sized success...

All that could go right, went in a direction.

It wasn't right, but it was definitely a direction!

I don't mind glass half-full but over-flowing is stretching it (not you)

  On 18/08/2011 at 07:50, daisycutter said:

I don't mind glass half-full but over-flowing is stretching it (not you)

I guess if you can define success, you can always define what success is...

It's like lowering the high jump bar as you realise you will never jump over it...

We have lost the coach. The senior players are hopeless and mutinous because they don't realise how hopeless they are, the admin is bloated (according to some), the footy dept is poorly run (according to some), the CEO is meddling places he shouldn't, and the board hadn't the faintest idea what hit them, and is now getting a retired champ to tell them what to do...

Oh, this year went great...