As far as Jacks game on the weekend went, I agree it wasn't one of his best efforts. The ball he won in the forward pocket and then stood there looking for a pass instead of taking the open shot... that hurt. The thing is though, I look at his games each week and I just want to see something improved. It doesn't have to be huge, but to see something he hasn't done well before, or hasn't attempted just shows that he is still working and improving. So for me the big thrill of the day was seeing him fly into a pack in front of the goals. I'm pretty sure that's the first time this year we've seen him crash a pack, and while he didn't take the mark he did get the ball down to a teammate and followed up to get an easy goal. One moment of really good forward play that we haven't seen from him before.

Not sure if you guys have played much basketball, but rebounding situations in basketball are very physical and involve a lot of body use, pushing etc etc. I recall the rebounding drills we did at the Melbourne Tigers U20s where no foul was called because we had to learn to push and shove and fight for the rebound. Watts was an elite basketball in junior ranks so he would have been exposed to the same thing.

Offensively there is less contact in basketball but defensively when playing at a high level there is a lot that goes on that doesn't get picked up.

I don't think the basketball argument sticks in this case. I would actually suggest that he realises that he doesn't have the body strength to compete one-on-one in a contest of strength so he endeavours to use his strengths to his advantage to win the ball. That is, he uses his speed, his hand eye co-ordination, and agility.

totally agree... bball in the key is not for the feint hearted. So much for a non contact sport...lol. VERY PHYSICAL

I still think its more the case as approached above that he knows his limitations , together with a lil bit of the fact that his body just isnt going to win some comtests.

a little FYI for everyone here. I had a chat to a few close mates after golf on sunday and each one stated that they would kill to have a Watts in their team (collingwood, carlton, essendon & nth melb). I dont think some of the MFC fans realises what they have in JW.

A few more pre seasons and about 50 games under his belt and we will be seeing what he can do and what his real potential is.

Patience is a Virtue. MFC have endured a few years of just crap football and now we can actually expect some decent results, it will come, just be patient.

As far as Jacks game on the weekend went, I agree it wasn't one of his best efforts. The ball he won in the forward pocket and then stood there looking for a pass instead of taking the open shot... that hurt. The thing is though, I look at his games each week and I just want to see something improved. It doesn't have to be huge, but to see something he hasn't done well before, or hasn't attempted just shows that he is still working and improving. So for me the big thrill of the day was seeing him fly into a pack in front of the goals. I'm pretty sure that's the first time this year we've seen him crash a pack, and while he didn't take the mark he did get the ball down to a teammate and followed up to get an easy goal. One moment of really good forward play that we haven't seen from him before.

Quite agree Ralph.

Strangely you're the first to comment about the indecision in the fwd pocket (at least that I've noticed). It was excruciating and then finally (after what seemed like ages) to scrub a kick into the ground. It just confounded me. Forwards are supposed to be hungry to kick goals

Patience is a Virtue. MFC have endured a few years of just crap football and now we can actually expect some decent results, it will come, just be patient.

You're preaching to the choir here Sturmmann

I don't buy the basketball argument

I agree - it's a crock. It's a great excuse for Melbourne supporters that spend their lives making excuses for Melbourne footballers.

Watts made the under 12 state Victorian team with Scully. If you go down to the East Sandringham Football Club you'll see Watts' name appear about 4 times on the Best & Fairest honour board. He's not some novice that has suddenly had an oval ball thrust into his hands.

Here are some snippets from an article in 2008.

"Watts, 17, is the classic schoolboy superstar. From the age of eight when he joined the East Sandringham Junior Football Club, to the cusp of being taken with the No. 1 pick in the national draft, Watts has wowed all who have seen him."

"Watts' dominance of junior football was so immediate, talent scouts started hearing about him from nine years of age."

"A glance at the East Sandringham Junior Football Club honour board shows a long diagonal row of Jack Watts best-and-fairest engravings".

Yes, he played lots and lots of basketball, but he's no novice to football. With good coaching he'll understand that he needs to develop more of an appetite for the contest. Supporters need to stop using basketball as a convenient excuse. There have been players that have avoided body contact for time immemorial and I'm sure most of them never threw a basketball competitively. Sometimes it's smart to avoid it, sometimes it's imperative to encounter it, and sometimes you just need to be seen doing it - for your teammates. With more experience and good coaching Jack will learn those moments.

But right now he plays soft footy, so cut the spin. I've had enough from Gillard over the last 4 weeks to last me a lifetime.

Pay him whatever, i couldn't care less. He is the future.

Will Miller be around for the next tilt at a flag. No. Then the argument about replacing Watts with him ends.

Maric has been given opportunities in the past and hasn't shown the required level of improvement or desire. That is why it is now harder for him to crack a game. Football is a ruthless world. It isn't always fair. Get over it people.

It is often said that the empty vessel makes the most noise and for all those Watts-bashers on here it is deafening.

No foresight.

No patience.

No idea.

It is often said that the empty vessel makes the most noise and for all those Watts-bashers on here it is deafening.

No foresight.

No patience.

No idea.

Name the "bashers" and quote what they've said that perturbs you.

I agree - it's a crock. It's a great excuse for Melbourne supporters that spend their lives making excuses for Melbourne footballers.

Watts made the under 12 state Victorian team with Scully. If you go down to the East Sandringham Football Club you'll see Watts' name appear about 4 times on the Best & Fairest honour board. He's not some novice that has suddenly had an oval ball thrust into his hands.

Here are some snippets from an article in 2008.

"Watts, 17, is the classic schoolboy superstar. From the age of eight when he joined the East Sandringham Junior Football Club, to the cusp of being taken with the No. 1 pick in the national draft, Watts has wowed all who have seen him."

"Watts' dominance of junior football was so immediate, talent scouts started hearing about him from nine years of age."

"A glance at the East Sandringham Junior Football Club honour board shows a long diagonal row of Jack Watts best-and-fairest engravings".

Yes, he played lots and lots of basketball, but he's no novice to football. With good coaching he'll understand that he needs to develop more of an appetite for the contest. Supporters need to stop using basketball as a convenient excuse. There have been players that have avoided body contact for time immemorial and I'm sure most of them never threw a basketball competitively. Sometimes it's smart to avoid it, sometimes it's imperative to encounter it, and sometimes you just need to be seen doing it - for your teammates. With more experience and good coaching Jack will learn those moments.

But right now he plays soft footy, so cut the spin. I've had enough from Gillard over the last 4 weeks to last me a lifetime.

A mighty big Preseason for Jack this summer. Time for Jack to really push himself. The indecision he has shown must be eliminated from his game.

He can do it-He just has to do it,Back himself in the Big League.

I doubt if Jack had to often get out of 3rd gear playing junior Football-now he does.

This is new territory Jack.

Don't be scared. Challenge yourself in 2011

"Watts, 17, is the classic schoolboy superstar. From the age of eight when he joined the East Sandringham Junior Football Club, to the cusp of being taken with the No. 1 pick in the national draft, Watts has wowed all who have seen him."

"Watts' dominance of junior football was so immediate, talent scouts started hearing about him from nine years of age."

"A glance at the East Sandringham Junior Football Club honour board shows a long diagonal row of Jack Watts best-and-fairest engravings".

Frankly I think this is the bit we seem to be forgetting in this somewhat fruitless argument.....

Not twelve months ago he was still a school boy and is only now figuring out what it is going to take at this level. He is going to need time and plenty of work.

It has been a rough initiation and one that I think we all assumed would have been easier and quicker (because we are always impatient with these kids), but he is still a big kid,

learning and developing his body. But he is clearly learning and no question in time will be a wonderful player.

Now back to the question of is new contract.......

I agree - it's a crock. It's a great excuse for Melbourne supporters that spend their lives making excuses for Melbourne footballers.

Watts made the under 12 state Victorian team with Scully. If you go down to the East Sandringham Football Club you'll see Watts' name appear about 4 times on the Best & Fairest honour board. He's not some novice that has suddenly had an oval ball thrust into his hands.

Here are some snippets from an article in 2008.

"Watts, 17, is the classic schoolboy superstar. From the age of eight when he joined the East Sandringham Junior Football Club, to the cusp of being taken with the No. 1 pick in the national draft, Watts has wowed all who have seen him."

"Watts' dominance of junior football was so immediate, talent scouts started hearing about him from nine years of age."

"A glance at the East Sandringham Junior Football Club honour board shows a long diagonal row of Jack Watts best-and-fairest engravings".

Yes, he played lots and lots of basketball, but he's no novice to football. With good coaching he'll understand that he needs to develop more of an appetite for the contest. Supporters need to stop using basketball as a convenient excuse. There have been players that have avoided body contact for time immemorial and I'm sure most of them never threw a basketball competitively. Sometimes it's smart to avoid it, sometimes it's imperative to encounter it, and sometimes you just need to be seen doing it - for your teammates. With more experience and good coaching Jack will learn those moments.

But right now he plays soft footy, so cut the spin. I've had enough from Gillard over the last 4 weeks to last me a lifetime.

Spot on Hannabal.

Great post.

Pay him whatever, i couldn't care less. He is the future.

Will Miller be around for the next tilt at a flag. No. Then the argument about replacing Watts with him ends.

Maric has been given opportunities in the past and hasn't shown the required level of improvement or desire. That is why it is now harder for him to crack a game. Football is a ruthless world. It isn't always fair. Get over it people.

It is often said that the empty vessel makes the most noise and for all those Watts-bashers on here it is deafening.

No foresight.

No patience.

No idea.

There is a big difference between being a basher and discussing what a developing player is doing wrong and needs to do. If we didn't have faith and expectations in Jack we wouldn't waste time being so analytical. However there are a not many genuine bashers here so don't be too quick to judge others. For my part this is the first time I've discussed Jack and that is because the season is coming to a close and its time to evaluate.

Name the "bashers" and quote what they've said that perturbs you.

Just check out the countless closed forums on here Hannabal. It speaks volumes.

There is a big difference between being a basher and discussing what a developing player is doing wrong and needs to do. If we didn't have faith and expectations in Jack we wouldn't waste time being so analytical. However there are a not many genuine bashers here so don't be too quick to judge others. For my part this is the first time I've discussed Jack and that is because the season is coming to a close and its time to evaluate.

Evaluataion is fine. And acknowledging what players need to do to improve is also fine.

But what is so often lost whenever this occurs is a little bit of reasoning and logical / analytical thinking.

Yes he's a no. 1 pick. But does that mean he isn't allowed to take 3-4 years to develop?

Too many place unrealisitic expectations on a bloke who is effectively a first year player this year coming off "half a pre-season" (in the words of Cam Bruce). If he was playing in the same manner after 3 years then i would be concerned and the vast criticism would be fair, but bottom line in the business of AFL, taller players are given more leeway and time to develop than smalls. It is what it is and people need to understand and get over it.

Hannabal you labelled him soft. Your opinion and you are entitled to it.

He doesn't yet have the physical size to crash packs. Does that make him soft. I don't believe so.

I believe he laid 5 tackles this week. Equal 5th across the whole Melbourne team. Not the conduct of a 'soft' player who doesn't like physical contact.

Yes he's a no. 1 pick. But does that mean he isn't allowed to take 3-4 years to develop?

Nowhere is it written that all tall KPP's need 3-4 years to develop.

Many take less, others take 4 years. Jack obviously will take a few years.

Royce Hart was just as skinny at 19 and took one year. I could name many others including current players.

You just can't generalise like that.

Anyway, if it takes 4 years I for one will wait. Steady improvement is all I ask.

P.S. And by develop I don't mean being a star

Edited August 17, 201014 yr by daisycutter

There is a clear difference between looking for an explanation and making excuses although I know it's not one of your strengths.

Nah, that's the easy part. Just as easy as dispelling the "explanations" that gather momentum on here.

Just because he's played football for many years doesn't mean that he dopesn't play like a basketballer. He plays with the characteristics of someone with a strong basketball background.

If you were to compare his style of movement with any current day player it would be Scott Pendlebury. I don't think it's any coincidence. Especially since both were high level guards.

Just check out the countless closed forums on here Hannabal. It speaks volumes.

Lame. A cop out.

If you make ill-considered accusations you need to be prepared to back them up. Provide the names and quotes that offend you so.

Just because he's played football for many years doesn't mean that he dopesn't play like a basketballer. He plays with the characteristics of someone with a strong basketball background.

If you were to compare his style of movement with any current day player it would be Scott Pendlebury. I don't think it's any coincidence. Especially since both were high level guards.

I'm not suggesting to you that he doesn't have basketball elements in his game, I'm suggesting to you that he's soft in pack/high marking contests. He flies in a half hearted and timid fashion. Granted, opening ones front, knowing what might ensue, is one of the hardest things to do on a footy field. His nervousness in those situations stands out like a beacon. It has nothing to do with basketball.

Young skinny Fyfe of Freo, a first year player, already shows great courage in marking contests. It too stands out like a beacon. It doesn't come easily to Jack. It does to some. He needs good coaching and a great preseason.

Edited August 17, 201014 yr by Hannabal

Was it an issue when he was a junior?

I haven't seen him fly for a mark often enough to know whether or not it's an issue at senior level. How often has it happened?

Hannabal is right.

Those players perceived as soft are often those who are hyper-conscious of the players (be it opponents or team-mates) around them. It can cause them to take focus away from the objective...the footy. It causes confusion, slows reactions and leads to poor and non-committal decision making. This is clearly Jack's problem.

Then there is the other side of the coin. Players who make the ball thier only focus and lack awareness of what is going on around them. Daniel Bell, Kosi, possibly Nathan Jones.

I have a tendency to coach the young kids to make the ball thier objective first and treat what is happening around them as a secondary concern. Ie be aware of your periphery but focus on the ball when you know you can get it.

I hope Jack will find that place between the two that good and great players find.

Its not Watts bashing, it is a fact. Jack has some great strengths he must improve this part of his game to make it.

I have faith that coaches far more qualified than any demonlander will be working with Jack on this issue. If I were caoching him I would put together a bunch of clips of Watts approaching the footy concentrating on the position of his head and eyes

Edited August 17, 201014 yr by dandeeman

Watts will be a gun, and those doubting him will just end up with eggs on their faces... just like those who wrote off Garland, said Green was soft in the first 2-3 years of his career, that Sylvia will never dominate a game and said Frawley wouldn't make it and had terrible skills.

All those reasonable people who understand Watts is 196cm, 83kg and 19 yrs old, can repeat endlessly how patience is needed, but the impatient will never listen.

Anyone with half a brain can look through the champion tall forwards of today (Brown, Franklin, Bazza Hall, Jack Reiwoldt) and understand that Watts is actually on par of ahead of what these guys were in their second season and 19 yrs old. But alas, the impatient will not listen.

Unfortunately, there is no way to convince someone who's already made up their mind. So, us reasonable people wait until Watts puts on 15kg and plays 50 afl game, and when he eventually comes good, the impatient will come around and love him as well.

But for those who are willing to give a guy 1 year after VCE a chance... Watts very clearly has elite attributes, and that is what makes him a potential superstar.

Attributes

- His speed has tested as in the top 1% in the afl

- His athletacism has tested in the top 3% in the afl

- He clearly has incredible kicking skills around the ground

- His marking is very good, and when he builds a body so will his contested marking

- He hasn't been able to show it, but he actually has a very good set shot for goal when he is up on confidence

The ONLY, yes ONLY thing he is lacking atm, is 15kg, and about 35 games of AFL. When he gets those 2 things, he will eliminate the rough edges to his game, be less scared to put his body on the line, and become a champ.

Shame on those who write him off too early.

Is he quick/fast...? :/

Size he can gain; but speed?

Saw him chase Jetta from the swans , didn't gain much ground but didn't lose any either .

At the 2008 draft camp he recorded the second fastest time in the 20m sprint for a non-indigenous player of 2.82 seconds.

At 196cms he has speed to burn my freind .

Lame. A cop out.

If you make ill-considered accusations you need to be prepared to back them up. Provide the names and quotes that offend you so.

What's wrong Hannabal? Your opinion is disputed and you get a little cranky. It is rather funny.

You love it when people agree with you (as i have done many times before) but clearly get a tad emotional when they don't.

Are you a female? I only ask because you are doing that classic female thing of putting words into my mouth that were never said. I never said anything about being offended. You have let your blind fury get in the way. Relax big fella.

Nothing ill-considered at all about it.

Watts will be a gun, and those doubting him will just end up with eggs on their faces... just like those who wrote off Garland, said Green was soft in the first 2-3 years of his career, that Sylvia will never dominate a game and said Frawley wouldn't make it and had terrible skills.

All those reasonable people who understand Watts is 196cm, 83kg and 19 yrs old, can repeat endlessly how patience is needed, but the impatient will never listen.

Anyone with half a brain can look through the champion tall forwards of today (Brown, Franklin, Bazza Hall, Jack Reiwoldt) and understand that Watts is actually on par of ahead of what these guys were in their second season and 19 yrs old. But alas, the impatient will not listen.

Unfortunately, there is no way to convince someone who's already made up their mind. So, us reasonable people wait until Watts puts on 15kg and plays 50 afl game, and when he eventually comes good, the impatient will come around and love him as well.

But for those who are willing to give a guy 1 year after VCE a chance... Watts very clearly has elite attributes, and that is what makes him a potential superstar.

Attributes

- His speed has tested as in the top 1% in the afl

- His athletacism has tested in the top 3% in the afl

- He clearly has incredible kicking skills around the ground

- His marking is very good, and when he builds a body so will his contested marking

- He hasn't been able to show it, but he actually has a very good set shot for goal when he is up on confidence

The ONLY, yes ONLY thing he is lacking atm, is 15kg, and about 35 games of AFL. When he gets those 2 things, he will eliminate the rough edges to his game, be less scared to put his body on the line, and become a champ.

Shame on those who write him off too early.

Great post Sylvinator. Couldn't have said it better. Wonder what hannabals reply will be?

I agree - it's a crock. It's a great excuse for Melbourne supporters that spend their lives making excuses for Melbourne footballers.

Watts made the under 12 state Victorian team with Scully. If you go down to the East Sandringham Football Club you'll see Watts' name appear about 4 times on the Best & Fairest honour board. He's not some novice that has suddenly had an oval ball thrust into his hands.

Here are some snippets from an article in 2008.

"Watts, 17, is the classic schoolboy superstar. From the age of eight when he joined the East Sandringham Junior Football Club, to the cusp of being taken with the No. 1 pick in the national draft, Watts has wowed all who have seen him."

"Watts' dominance of junior football was so immediate, talent scouts started hearing about him from nine years of age."

"A glance at the East Sandringham Junior Football Club honour board shows a long diagonal row of Jack Watts best-and-fairest engravings".

Yes, he played lots and lots of basketball, but he's no novice to football. With good coaching he'll understand that he needs to develop more of an appetite for the contest. Supporters need to stop using basketball as a convenient excuse. There have been players that have avoided body contact for time immemorial and I'm sure most of them never threw a basketball competitively. Sometimes it's smart to avoid it, sometimes it's imperative to encounter it, and sometimes you just need to be seen doing it - for your teammates. With more experience and good coaching Jack will learn those moments.

But right now he plays soft footy, so cut the spin. I've had enough from Gillard over the last 4 weeks to last me a lifetime.

Name the "bashers" and quote what they've said that perturbs you.

The Watts 'bashers' may not be found but nothing new in you trotting out a one liner towards Melbourne supporters preferring to focus on positives. It does not necessarily equate to an excuse to do so.

Why should anyone have to bother with 'excuses' for a 19 yr old kid anyway? Mostly to respond to the negativity based pigeon holing of these kids that have played less than 20 games.

It may not be 'bashing' as you are so quick to jump on when used out of context, but it certainly is negative and these threads continually go down the same path.

You incorrectly identify those that are exhausted by this crap as excuse makers. Again, they may simply be Melbourne supporters that see & like to focus on the positives.