Once again we lost a game because of 2 goals resulting from errors kicking in. Jack Grimes in q1, and Chip Frawley in q2(though the bloke on the mark hardly seemed far enough away). In a low scoring game, a side CANNOT afford to surrender 2 goals so easily.

Both these players have excellent disposal, and can normally be trusted in kick-ins. But with the wet ball , I think the "defensive fall back tactic", i.e. the long kick as wide as possible to the pack, should be considered even more than usual when there are few options upfield.

I think it actually looked like that's what Chip was trying to do re: defensive long kick, i think he just got too close to the man on the mark.

The kick ins were poor v Kangas, and it cost us big time, against the bulldogs it was just silly errors by players that we expect better from (not having a crack, i love these two). A shame, but hopefully they'll learn from it.

Isn't it amazing progress that we have graduated from willing the senior coach to move aside to criticising our vastly improved kick-in routine...

6 weeks is an effing eternity.

Isn't it amazing progress that we have graduated from willing the senior coach to move aside to criticising our vastly improved kick-in routine...

6 weeks is an effing eternity.

Exactly.

Has anyone had a look to see where we sit on scoring goals from a kick-in?

Once again we lost a game because of 2 goals resulting from errors kicking in. Jack Grimes in q1, and Chip Frawley in q2(though the bloke on the mark hardly seemed far enough away). In a low scoring game, a side CANNOT afford to surrender 2 goals so easily.

Both these players have excellent disposal, and can normally be trusted in kick-ins. But with the wet ball , I think the "defensive fall back tactic", i.e. the long kick as wide as possible to the pack, should be considered even more than usual when there are few options upfield.

Chip Frawley's should never have happened. It was a result of the WRONg Sylvia out on the full decision.

Once again we lost a game because of 2 goals resulting from errors kicking in. Jack Grimes in q1, and Chip Frawley in q2(though the bloke on the mark hardly seemed far enough away). In a low scoring game, a side CANNOT afford to surrender 2 goals so easily.

No. We lost the game because we don't know how to finish. Because of the umpires. Because of the weather... MOSTLY because our whole forward line is in hospital.

I have no problem with complaints about skills, or highlighting errors. But fair go. You can't put a loss down to a couple of errors in 120 minutes of footy.

Perhaps we lost the game because were not in front when the siren went. A million reasons why we lose, Bartram not just kicking the ball of the ground which lead to Griffens match winner is just one of them.

We made mistakes which our endeavour and vigour sort of make up for, but at the end of the day they are mistakes that really good teams dont make, and thats cool, we have a long way to go before we are a very good side.

But i am enjoying this season more than any in memory.

IMO the kick in from a behind routine should be a SET PLAY

It should vary and change due to conditions and the ground being played

Obviously it should change every week and if your fair dinkum about it should change every quarter

The only thing that goes wrong is bad foot execution or lack of movement

You shouldnt being kicking to a player but a position on the ground

Knowing where its going BEFORE the opposition does is a no brainer

If part of your team doesnt know then its bad planning BEFORE the game starts

You have ALL WEEK to learn it

It doesnt even have to be a long kick as this can create another oppurtunity to do exactly the same thing further down the ground where players are aware

of where it is headed

You must have enough SET PLAYS to keep the opposition guessing

Far too many players standing flat footed proves its not a prioty at Melbourne when it shoould be

IMO the more down the corridor you can put the ball the better chance of getting into the forward 50 quicker

The bottom Line is if you dont practice it you cannot expect to get better at it

I have noticed that we run into trouble sometimes by not getting the ball back to the kicker in the square quick enough. When the ball goes over the fence they seem to relax (take a breather) while waiting for the crowd to chuck it back... they need to run straight to the spare ball they keep in the bag behind the goals. If they do this consistently and get a quicker kick away before the opposition has time to set up their zone they will find it much easier to hit a target (especially up the middle of the ground) without being forced wide into the pockets. The defenders could even work in pairs where 1 player runs after the ball/to the bag and the designated kicker stands in the square getting ready for the ball to arrive... might only save a few seconds but would eleviate the pressure that builds up when there are no clear options.

I reckon our point kick-ins are reasonable at the moment. Of course there is always room for improvement but no team will ever be perfect, by the very nature of the situation. Those who demand no errors are kidding themselves.

If you want some perspective, take a look at the last quarter of the Adelaide-Richmond game. I kid you not, the Tigers did not get a single point kick-in past centre half-back for the entire final term.

Both these players have excellent disposal, and can normally be trusted in kick-ins. But with the wet ball , I think the "defensive fall back tactic", i.e. the long kick as wide as possible to the pack, should be considered even more than usual when there are few options upfield.

The wide kick to a pack in those atrocious conditions is a just a way to surrender control of the ball around their 50 metre arc. In many cases where the wide option was taken the ball missed the target and went out on the full.

But fair go. You can't put a loss down to a couple of errors in 120 minutes of footy.

Correct. But people will do this to push their own barrow.

IMO the kick in from a behind routine should be a SET PLAY

It should vary and change due to conditions and the ground being played

Obviously it should change every week and if your fair dinkum about it should change every quarter

Your 2nd sentence contradicted your first. Its not a set play but a variety of methods that can be employed at any time.

The only thing that goes wrong is bad foot execution or lack of movement

Also decision making...

You must have enough SET PLAYS to keep the opposition guessing

Far too many players standing flat footed proves its not a prioty at Melbourne when it shoould be

IMO the more down the corridor you can put the ball the better chance of getting into the forward 50 quicker

The bottom Line is if you dont practice it you cannot expect to get better at it

SET PLAYS are PREDICTABLE and easy for the opposition to work out.

And the more you go down the corridor, where do think the opposition are going to push numbers there.

The key issues are decision making, foot skills and being able to utilise a number of methods depending on the situation and conditions to get the ball outside D50.

IMO the kick in from a behind routine should be a SET PLAY

It should vary and change due to conditions and the ground being played

Obviously it should change every week and if your fair dinkum about it should change every quarter

The only thing that goes wrong is bad foot execution or lack of movement

You shouldnt being kicking to a player but a position on the ground

Knowing where its going BEFORE the opposition does is a no brainer

If part of your team doesnt know then its bad planning BEFORE the game starts

You have ALL WEEK to learn it

It doesnt even have to be a long kick as this can create another oppurtunity to do exactly the same thing further down the ground where players are aware

of where it is headed

You must have enough SET PLAYS to keep the opposition guessing

Far too many players standing flat footed proves its not a prioty at Melbourne when it shoould be

IMO the more down the corridor you can put the ball the better chance of getting into the forward 50 quicker

The bottom Line is if you dont practice it you cannot expect to get better at it

Did you notice a couple of times on friday night we tried the old huddle at CHF for the kick in then run in all directions. It worked perfectly both times. Interestingly, some things never change

"I reckon our point kick-ins are reasonable at the moment. Of course there is always room for improvement "

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I reckon 2 goals out of 10 from direct kick-in errors is NOT reasonable.

There certainly IS room for improvement there!

I like Swampfox's post above . It's so good to see a poster actually thinking about tactical suggestions.

Sometimes I think Demonlanders(and, I have feared in the past, our Footy Dept), have put kick-ins in the "too hard basket."

Goals were hard to get in Friday night's conditions. We lost by less than a goal, . I reckon losing two goals in kick-ins is pretty important in that context.

I agree about the necessity to get the ball to the kicker-in as fast as possible.A couple of years ago , I suggested asking for 2 Demon supporting volunteers to be stationed, one at either end, to make sure the ball gets to the kicker in ASP. This would give us a slight advantage over the opponents, assuming they don't think of it, too. No posters thought this worthy of comment. Perhaps it's only a "half-a-percenter", but they add up!

Interstate supporters deliberately delay returning the ball. This is harder at the MCG, where usually both sides are represented in the crowd.

No. We lost the game because we don't know how to finish. Because of the umpires. Because of the weather... MOSTLY because our whole forward line is in hospital.

I have no problem with complaints about skills, or highlighting errors. But fair go. You can't put a loss down to a couple of errors in 120 minutes of footy.

I put some of the loss down to the 1st quarter. We didn't get off to a good start. Bailey highlighted (did emphasise) this post match. He also highlighted so many areas that contributed to the outcome. He was filthy seething at quarter time.

I'm inclined to agree with DB.

The wide kick to a pack in those atrocious conditions is a just a way to surrender control of the ball around their 50 metre arc. In many cases where the wide option was taken the ball missed the target and went out on the full.

Correct. But people will do this to push their own barrow.

Your 2nd sentence contradicted your first. Its not a set play but a variety of methods that can be employed at any time.

Having one set play is dumb and i thought it was obvious i meant having many of them

You would be amazed how many set plays need to be learnt verbatim by gridiron players

No its not gridiron but the kick from full back is a worthwhile excersise in getting it right

Also decision making...

Decision making isnt an advantage if your the only one that knows what they are about to do although i do agree that the potential reciever should be

making a decision to honor the kick IF the kicker thinks its the very best option

Its not always a good option if the receiever isnt in a postion to play on immeadiatley though

SET PLAYS are PREDICTABLE and easy for the opposition to work out.

Not when they change from quarter to quarter (they wont have time to see the pattern)

I never suggested we only have ONE SET PLAY

And the more you go down the corridor, where do think the opposition are going to push numbers there.

Not suggesting that is the only method , just pointing out that its the quickest path to attack especially if you already have numbers

to take the second kick moving to the area the ball is going

Having numbers at the fall of the ball IF it fails to reach the target still has you at an advatage

The key issues are decision making, foot skills and being able to utilise a number of methods depending on the situation and conditions to get the ball outside D50.

So long as its to the advantage of the team i would agree but having the advantage of knowing where the ball is going in the first place has an even better chance of success

Having everyone on the same page surley must be an advantage

The execution of the kick is by far the most important part of the exercise as everything else is void if it isnt accurate

I am very hopeful Strauss gets into the side for other parts of his game other than his excellent kicking ability

1. Your belief that we go in with one SET PLAY per quarter is bizarre and naive.

2. Kicking out is a matter of focussing on the situation provided by your teammates and seeking the best option in accordance with your game plan at the time and executing correctly. It will involves a number of plays to isolate and spot prefered players (Davey, Grimes) to take the 2nd disposal outside the D50. Decision making is critical because generally there should be a number of options available and a decision has to be made who to kick to. And its not always the case that the recipient will be in the position to play on immediately. Often quite the opposite.

3. As for the corridor kicking out straight down the line might an option in exceptional situation. However most teams with half a brain ensure defender close down the 45% angle disected by the straight line between the goals. Having numbers at the ball should mean the opposition does also which then means the play get congested at the top of their F50 region. The ball is neutral in the oppositions forward corridor. That spells DANGER and successful coaches hate that position to be in.

4.Execution of the kick is only one important part of the jigsaw. The other parts are just as critical make up the requirements needed. I have seen some lovely well executed kicks go straight down the throat of the opposition because they made a poor decision to kick to 2 on 1 or to a position where the opposition had the sit on the ball.

5. For knowing in advance by all the players, the players are drilled to ensure there are variety of options at any one timer to kick to but that we would have preference as to who would receive the kick out if possible.

6. Being a defender is more than just a nice kicking style...Strauss is learning that in the VFL now

they have a set play ....

bomb it outwide and long to jamar

the conditions didnt really allow this ...

....

1. Your belief that we go in with one SET PLAY per quarter is bizarre and naive.

No Rhino it isnt what i said , you should never use the same SET PLAY in the entire match let alone a quarter

IMO the kick in from a behind routine should be a SET PLAY

It should vary and change due to conditions and the ground being played

Obviously it should change every week and if your fair dinkum about it should change every quarter

You do seem to change your view by the hour dont you.

P.S. Sorry about your last post something went askew when I tried to copy something from it.

....

You do seem to change your view by the hour dont you.

Nope you must have missed what i wrote

[b]Having one set play is dumb and i thought it was obvious i meant having many of them

maybe i should have made it PINK

P.S. Sorry about your last post something went askew when I tried to copy something from it.

NP

But with the wet ball , I think the "defensive fall back tactic", i.e. the long kick as wide as possible to the pack, should be considered even more than usual when there are few options upfield.

We did this in the last quarter. Johnson was the target. He didn't even get off the ground.

Our kick ins this year have been fine, other than the occasional screw up. But every team has them. At least now the majority of the time we can feel confident that the ball will get out of the 50. Over the past few years that hasn't been the case.

I think the obvious solution is that we do not allow the opposition to score; no score = no behinds = no kick in.

However, when we do let them in for the odd score, we seem to be generally quite good... last Friday, if not for a very poor effort in the first quarter, we would not have been in a position where those errant kick-ins could hurt us. But sometimes I do wish we had another Wheatley to bomb the kick-in long and down the guts.

[quote name='titan_uranus' date='11 May 2010 - 10:59 AM'

"Our kick ins this year have been fine, other than the occasional screw up."

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Just enough "occasional screw-ups" on kick-ins to present the Bulldogs with 20% of their goals!

If we focus on attacking and tackling hard we will win more games than we lose. There are a lot of things you can blame when you lose, the best thing is to learn from it and move forward.

This is the most exciting Melbourne team i have seen.

Go Dees Attack

Edited May 11, 201015 yr by Go Dees Attack