I've been a fan of Bates for a while and had to defend him from noisy so-called Melbourne-supporting Bate baggers early last year - when he went on to finish 4th in the B&F.

He was slow to start the year then and again this year apart from flashes. Just as Col G is a bit scratchy but will run into form, so has Bate started slowly but he was really effective across half forward yesterday.

On that form those who have been slashing him can start queueing to make their apologies.

He cant play tall. So he needs to kick more accurately and to chase much harder.

Looks very slow, but was good yesterday.

I was critical of Bate last year because of his lack of application, he was unable to lay a tackle and was getting brushed aside far to easily but he addressed that issue and was playing good hard football by the end of the year. This year it has been purely a case of lack of match fitness and he will get better and better as the year goes by, he is a very important player for us.

  On 18/04/2010 at 22:29, pitmaster said:

I've been a fan of Bates for a while and had to defend him from noisy so-called Melbourne-supporting Bate baggers early last year - when he went on to finish 4th in the B&F.

He was slow to start the year then and again this year apart from flashes. Just as Col G is a bit scratchy but will run into form, so has Bate started slowly but he was really effective across half forward yesterday.

On that form those who have been slashing him can start queueing to make their apologies.

Call down pitmaster. The guy is shining coz the team is playing well. He is no star. Not by a long shot. Has gobbled up a few gimme goals that came through the hard work of others. Same last week. Still misses way to many set shots and isn't great overhead. He is palying a role though.

I've never given him a proper slagging because I think he's a decent kick and is a handy target for us up forward when he uses his size. Yesterday was definitely his best game so far and you can see incremental improvements in him this season.

That being said I don't think he's done enough to warrant apologies from the slaggers, unlike say J Mac or even Dunn. His speed is still a big issue - that includes not just his running speed but his ability to play the ball on quickly.

  On 18/04/2010 at 22:58, P_Man said:

I've never given him a proper slagging because I think he's a decent kick and is a handy target for us up forward when he uses his size. Yesterday was definitely his best game so far and you can see incremental improvements in him this season.

That being said I don't think he's done enough to warrant apologies from the slaggers, unlike say J Mac or even Dunn. His speed is still a big issue - that includes not just his running speed but his ability to play the ball on quickly.

Have u seen how fast he can run when there 9s the opportunity of a goal in fron of him? The jets come on then. I think he is a lazy footballer. Does not work hard enough when he doesn't have the ball. Watch him walk while his man runs off him. No chase out of the forward line.

A few points.

We played Richmond yesterday.

We won by 55 points and kicked 20 goals.

Bate really only kicked two goals. The other was Petterds.

My view on Bates performance:

Presented well but should really take more contested marks for a player with his strength and size. (Col Sylvia's mark on the mcc members

wing is a prefect example of what Bate should be doing week in week out)

Other than that he kicked a couple of goals in a side that kicked 20 goals. What was so great about his performance? Do tell?

Do people understand he needs to stand up in this area of his game as it's about the only thing he can do?!

I'm so sick of these "apologise to players" threads. I am allowed to have my views on players, and I have every right to express them on a

football forum.

I do not think Bate is part of our best 22 at the moment and I don't see a spot for him in our future 22.

Bate is in no mans land. He is not good enough, strong enough, imposing enough to be our target go to forward.

He is not quick enough, doesn't pressure enough, chase enough, man-up enough to be considered a pressure forward.

What is he?

He is a forward who's strengths are his penetrating kick, kicking to leads and contested marks SOMETIMES.

If those are his only strengths which I think they are then he should be kicking more than 3 goals in a side that is playing

the worst team in the AFL.

Wake up ffs.

I really like Bate, and as we were winning easily, I thought I would watch him carefully.

Now, before I start, if you watched the game on TV or are watching a replay you will probably not have noticed what I did.

I know people bag him on occasions for being slow, lazy etc. etc. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, so i wont try and convinve people.

However, I saw him make so many leads that got unrewarded, he was by himself through his hard running, and was always in the right place to get a short pass in the forward line (the only one to continually lower his eyes was Bennell in the second half).

My brother and I got to the point where we were wondering if they did not want to kick it to him cos he has red hair!!

I just want some people to watch how many leads he makes, over and over and over until he is stuffed, and then start bagging him.

I love Col Sylvia, and people talked him up for kicking 5 goals, but he got some cheap ones too. Was he any better cos he was kicked to a couple more times than Bate. I am not sure?

All I can hope is that they both keep it up, cos the forward line lead ups of Bate, Sylvia, Petterd and Dunn all looked good yesterday, but it was only against Richmond, so lets see how it works against better opposition.

Bates football does the talking not posters on Demonland, fortunately. Ipso facto; Bate is a strong player, period. He is everything we wish certain other players could be, not naming names, but cough miller cough..

Some of you are wickedly greedy beyond comprehension. Accept and admire what we have and those who bust their ass for this club!

  On 18/04/2010 at 23:03, Balls_Grinter_14 said:

Have u seen how fast he can run when there 9s the opportunity of a goal in fron of him? The jets come on then. I think he is a lazy footballer. Does not work hard enough when he doesn't have the ball. Watch him walk while his man runs off him. No chase out of the forward line.

I agree, reminds me a lot of the old Col Sylvia, after burners when he's got the ball, SFA when he hasn't.

Think I've seen him run down a player just once, when he used Clint Young's face as a lawnmower.

I'm a Bate fan though, and find it funny that supporters don't realise how dangerous he is when he gets warmed up. He's an offensive weapon and always has a hand in goal assists, that's too important to leave out of this side.

He needs to switch on defensively to be a real part of this team, and get more physical. Bailey will get it out of him.

  On 19/04/2010 at 07:14, Deestroy All said:

I agree, reminds me a lot of the old Col Sylvia, after burners when he's got the ball, SFA when he hasn't.

Think I've seen him run down a player just once, when he used Clint Young's face as a lawnmower.

I'm a Bate fan though, and find it funny that supporters don't realise how dangerous he is when he gets warmed up. He's an offensive weapon and always has a hand in goal assists, that's too important to leave out of this side.

He needs to switch on defensively to be a real part of this team, and get more physical. Bailey will get it out of him.

'gets warmed up' That's precisely the point. It takes many weeks before the ice falls off his legs, and then only slowly because his legs move so slowly.

He's presently worth his place when fully fit, but I doubt he will be when all are available.

Don't jump on me but I think we need a little more real pace `on the forward line. I like Jetta--see he kicked 2 yesterday. I can see Jetta and Bennell competing for a spot.

  On 19/04/2010 at 07:26, stueyspencer no12 said:

'gets warmed up' That's precisely the point. It takes many weeks before the ice falls off his legs, and then only slowly because his legs move so slowly.

He's presently worth his place when fully fit, but I doubt he will be when all are available.

Don't jump on me but I think we need a little more real pace `on the forward line. I like Jetta--see he kicked 2 yesterday. I can see Jetta and Bennell competing for a spot.

wow... just, wow. Occasionaly we see things like this on Demonland, and everytime, words can't express the feelings- we are left speechless..... wow..

  On 19/04/2010 at 07:26, stueyspencer no12 said:

'gets warmed up' That's precisely the point. It takes many weeks before the ice falls off his legs, and then only slowly because his legs move so slowly.

He's presently worth his place when fully fit, but I doubt he will be when all are available.

Don't jump on me but I think we need a little more real pace `on the forward line. I like Jetta--see he kicked 2 yesterday. I can see Jetta and Bennell competing for a spot.

I'm a Jetta fan too, but don't see how he and Bate are in any way comparable or in competition.

There's no need for Bate to 'warm up' at Casey (unless the coaching staff see he needs a message about defensive efforts). He's contributing to our scoreboard and is only just getting some fitness up. He's also the type that'll kick 5 out of the blue.

He hasn't even been that bad. When was the last time you saw Miller or Newton repeatedly lead, take the mark, turn around and hit up a pass in a continuous motion? Never. Bate does it every week.

  On 18/04/2010 at 22:29, pitmaster said:

I've been a fan of Bates for a while and had to defend him from noisy so-called Melbourne-supporting Bate baggers early last year - when he went on to finish 4th in the B&F.

He was slow to start the year then and again this year apart from flashes. Just as Col G is a bit scratchy but will run into form, so has Bate started slowly but he was really effective across half forward yesterday.

On that form those who have been slashing him can start queueing to make their apologies.

I'm a Bate fan but his game against Hawthorn was about as bad as you can play. His game against Collinwood only marginally better. Adelaide - so so. Richmond, surely you would only say fair. Maybe my standards are too high but I want a premiership not cheap goals against the worst side in AFL history.

Presented well yesterday, need crumber front and square.

Normally lazy and disinterested has a long way to go.

  On 19/04/2010 at 09:30, fired up said:

Normally lazy and disinterested has a long way to go.

I don't agree with that. I just don't think he has a big engine and needs games to get fitness hence his slow starts to seasons. Anyway I like Bate and think he is a vital cog in the forward line.

  On 18/04/2010 at 23:12, stevethemanjordan said:

Bate is in no mans land. He is not good enough, strong enough, imposing enough to be our target go to forward.

He is not quick enough, doesn't pressure enough, chase enough, man-up enough to be considered a pressure forward.

What is he?

He is a forward who's strengths are his penetrating kick, kicking to leads and contested marks SOMETIMES.

If those are his only strengths which I think they are then he should be kicking more than 3 goals in a side that is playing

the worst team in the AFL.

I tend to agree.

Someone said he can play tall. But I don't think so. I can't remember an overhead mark, contested or not. And he could take some lessons from Robbo on chest marks.

His legs move very slowly. Compared to Petterd, he's one-dimensional.

When he first played for Melbourne, he looked a lot faster, more vigorous, almost a break-the-lines player with the ball.

Perhaps he's put too much emphasis on building his muscles, yet he doesn't seem to use his body strength to good effect.

Posters mentioning Jetta are on the right track; Bate has to show further improvement or he'll be a passenger and then a forward for Casey.

It's been said he started the season not fully fit or prepared, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but he has to play much better than even his performance against such a lowly mob.

He is still slow but played better than last week so no apologies from me.

Bate still has some kinks to work out of his game, aside from that he is very handy.

Watched Jetta at Casey on the weekend. NO doubt he has pace to burn but a few crucial errors cost the team. Jetta will be a forwardline prospect, but he threatens your Wonna types more than he threatens Bate.

He does have plenty of work to do to cement a spot in the forward 6, but considering our other options I think he is doing good enough to keep his spot and should remain there for the foreseeable future.

He's not a star but I've got no complaints about him being in the team, in his own right and as a development process.

I like him more often than I don't, and sometimes he really lifts a notch.

  On 18/04/2010 at 22:58, P_Man said:

I've never given him a proper slagging because I think he's a decent kick and is a handy target for us up forward when he uses his size. Yesterday was definitely his best game so far and you can see incremental improvements in him this season.

That being said I don't think he's done enough to warrant apologies from the slaggers, unlike say J Mac or even Dunn. His speed is still a big issue - that includes not just his running speed but his ability to play the ball on quickly.

I think down the track a couple of seasons, he may well end up as a Midfielder or Defender. He can pinch hit forward if that time comes, but I see him as possibly our Brendon Goddard. He was recruited as a player with multi faceted skills & played in defence a bit. He has a big motor, so endurence should be good, especially as a lead up forward, that should help develop his wind tank.

But when Jack Watts & Morton have grown, as well as Jurrah, Wonna, Petterd, Green, Sylvia, etc are in the front bit, he needs to play some-where's.

  On 19/04/2010 at 11:54, dee-luded said:

but I see him as possibly our Brendon Goddard.

Like your optimism but that's being a tad fanciful ...

Pace is Bate's problem and if we unearth a similar type of player who's a bit quicker then I reckon he'll struggle to be in our best 22.

  On 19/04/2010 at 11:54, dee-luded said:

but I see him as possibly our Brendon Goddard.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

and I see Newton as possibly our Jonathan Brown.

I can see why you chose your username mate.

  On 19/04/2010 at 09:30, fired up said:

Presented well yesterday, need crumber front and square.

Normally lazy and disinterested has a long way to go.

no I disagree.He tries hard but, simply, he lacks pace and until fully fit he fumbles dreadfully. Does improve as he gets fitter but I think it's wromg that he's allowed to get fit in the seniors. I think he should have played the last 3 weeks as a midfielder at Casey. He will never be a key position forward--I can't recall him taking an overhead contested mark.