I say yes.

We are obviously short of cattle, have a lot of youth, are rebuilding,blah blah ...insert excuse here.

I went to the G expecting we'd lose but hoping we'd show something

As a start to the season that was insipid and the blokes out there, and those directing that disgrace should have a serious look at themselves.

I'm wondering how to drag myself in there for the rest of the season..one of you rose coloured glasses types please post quickly and help me understand that this is part of a irresistable surge toward success

I say yes.

We are obviously short of cattle, have a lot of youth, are rebuilding,blah blah ...insert excuse here.

I went to the G expecting we'd lose but hoping we'd show something

As a start to the season that was insipid and the blokes out there, and those directing that disgrace should have a serious look at themselves.

I'm wondering how to drag myself in there for the rest of the season..one of you rose coloured glasses types please post quickly and help me understand that this is part of a irresistable surge toward success

Your right, we have improved. The List. We've picked up the calves, or yearlings if you like, & now we're putting work into them, & their getting their first runs. They'll be better with each run. But this is not individuals running against each other for one winner. The more experienced runners would win.

In our circumstance as a team, the young kids reduce the effectiveness of the mature guys with a result of a poor performance. Thats what you get with so many debutants in one team. There will be one lessnext week with Sylvia coming back, & soon enough another will make way as more injured players return to the side.

Your right, we have improved. The List. We've picked up the calves, or yearlings if you like, & now we're putting work into them, & their getting their first runs. They'll be better with each run. But this is not individuals running against each other for one winner. The more experienced runners would win.

In our circumstance as a team, the young kids reduce the effectiveness of the mature guys with a result of a poor performance. Thats what you get with so many debutants in one team. There will be one lessnext week with Sylvia coming back, & soon enough another will make way as more injured players return to the side.

Mmme, not sure about that. Some senior players have not shown leadership. Miller, Davey, Jones need to step up.

Some senior players have not shown leadership. Miller, Davey, Jones need to step up.

Cameron Bruce was horrendous today. Miller was Miller. Davey went missing. Green was good post knock out. Moloney played like he was thinking about being an NFL punter. Jmac tried.

Hang your head in shame leadership group.

Oh god that was awful. Are we getting worse? We got within 22 points last year against a side featuring Buddy, Sewell, Rioli and Bateman. They cut us to ribbons today with their field kicking and should have won by 100pts.

How is it that a 10 year player like Bruce can have such poor handball skills? Too many turnovers.

Jones - he's a fourth 4th year player...has he improved his kicking at all? And Oh boy has has huge problems making decisions.

Junior - wonderful trier...but he kills us with his possessions. He grabs the ball - he turns - and he kicks it straight up in the air! That might have been fine in the '60's but it is just not good enough today. Why doesn't he try passing the ball by hand or foot to someone in a better position. They should be leading by example. Instead, they continually put everyone under pressure.

These are our senior players, yet they do not have sufficient skills to play AFL football. They're not alone. Let's add Spencer, Miller, Warnock, Rivers, and Frawley as senior players with poor kicking skills.

Bate, Davey, and Jamar looked underdone - but so did everyone else. We have been training since Oct 12 last year so why do we spend all day walking and chasing?

Our running off the ball was terrible, our shepherding was non existent, and why oh why do we continually handball to a player standing still!!!

We also picked too many new players at once. Not only the 3 first gamers, but Spencer and Mckenzie are very raw and it showed today. Newcomers can afford to make some errors if the senior players are doing their job. That didn't happen today.

Edited March 27, 201015 yr by DirtyDees DDC

Cameron Bruce was horrendous today. Miller was Miller. Davey went missing. Green was good post knock out. Moloney played like he was thinking about being an NFL punter. Jmac tried.

Hang your head in shame leadership group.

Wonder what the club line will be. Be patient. Bailey has a plan - just needs sometime to work out the details.

Cameron Bruce was horrendous today. Miller was Miller. Davey went missing. Green was good post knock out. Moloney played like he was thinking about being an NFL punter. Jmac tried.

Hang your head in shame leadership group.

Yeah, Cam was really 'horrendous'. 23 possessions with no pre season. ( Which is exactly 23 more than you would have got pal!) Named as our best in the Herald Sun ( Reporter was obviously an Unbiased and not a Cameron Bruce basher). Yawn.

Yeah, Cam was really 'horrendous'. 23 possessions with no pre season. ( Which is exactly 23 more than you would have got pal!) Named as our best in the Herald Sun ( Reporter was obviously an Unbiased and not a Cameron Bruce basher). Yawn.

I've always been a big fan of Cam Bruce but I thought his game today was one of the worst I've seen him play. I reckon if you asked him he would agree. I would say that the Journo who gave out the votes only looked at the stats and never left the bar.

Yeah, Cam was really 'horrendous'. 23 possessions with no pre season. ( Which is exactly 23 more than you would have got pal!) Named as our best in the Herald Sun ( Reporter was obviously an Unbiased and not a Cameron Bruce basher). Yawn.

Its what he did with those possessions though. Sprayed kicks and hospital handballs will not win us anything, and certainly put our young kids at risk.

If we are following the model of St. Kilda, Hawthorn and the Western Bulldogs, the third year of building-from-the-ground-up is frustatingly poor. So the bar should not have been raised by anyone other than MelbourneFC employees and associates toeing the party line.

The fourth year of a full-blown rebuild is when the real results come to the fore. St Kilda reached rock bottom in 2000 and by 2003 had won 11 games for that season --- the same number in 2006 for the Bulldogs who went 3-22 in 2003. Hawthorn 4-18 in 2004, 14-8 in year four and a Premiership a season later.

So, extending Bailey's contract to some degree was a clever decision. First, it rids the media of an opportunity to hound him this year (although: "Why did they extend the contract?" is surefire ammo for a Sheehan-type) and second, it gives us the opportunity to judge Bailey in his crunch year (the fourth).

If he coaches less than 10 wins, we part ways, no hard feelings.

Shopping around for a new, established, experienced coach will be a cinch. With the number of super talented youngsters to his avail, every man and his assistant will be eager for the job.

Do you reckon Mick will be keen to proceed into his pseudo-role @ Collingwood in 2012? All it takes is one call and one Senior Coach vacancy and he'll be out of Westpac Centre faster than Chris Judd's leadership off the field.

That said, I still hope for the best from Bailey and that he is with us for the long haul.

If we are following the model of St. Kilda, Hawthorn and the Western Bulldogs, the third year of building-from-the-ground-up is frustatingly poor. So the bar should not have been raised by anyone other than MelbourneFC employees and associates toeing the party line.

The fourth year of a full-blown rebuild is when the real results come to the fore. St Kilda reached rock bottom in 2000 and by 2003 had won 11 games for that season --- the same number in 2006 for the Bulldogs who went 3-22 in 2003. Hawthorn 4-18 in 2004, 14-8 in year four and a Premiership a season later.

So, extending Bailey's contract to some degree was a clever decision. First, it rids the media of an opportunity to hound him this year (although: "Why did they extend the contract?" is surefire ammo for a Sheehan-type) and second, it gives us the opportunity to judge Bailey in his crunch year (the fourth).

If he coaches less than 10 wins, we part ways, no hard feelings.

Shopping around for a new, established, experienced coach will be a cinch. With the number of super talented youngsters to his avail, every man and his assistant will be eager for the job.

Do you reckon Mick will be keen to proceed into his pseudo-role @ Collingwood in 2012? All it takes is one call and one Senior Coach vacancy and he'll be out of Westpac Centre faster than Chris Judd's leadership off the field.

That said, I still hope for the best from Bailey and that he is with us for the long haul.

So how many more years do we have to wait to see our side play decent, honourable and successful footy?

Its what he did with those possessions though. Sprayed kicks and hospital handballs will not win us anything, and certainly put our young kids at risk.

Agree. I thought all last year that he is now playing like a rabbit caught in the headlights. He will just handball anywhere as soon as it looks like someone is near him. He appears to fear any body contact. He would have turned it over 10 times today.

So how many more years do we have to wait to see our side play decent, honourable and successful footy?

One.

But I'm not putting 2010 past us yet --- that would be unfair, regardless of today's depressing performance.

I find it amazing how Melbourne can take highly skilled juniors and coach the skill out of them. Maric and Strause were great kicks until they started training at Melbourne.

I really hope the club does not ruin our latest recruits.

I'm wondering how to drag myself in there for the rest of the season..one of you rose coloured glasses types please post quickly and help me understand that this is part of a irresistable surge toward success

I'll go because I couldn't not go. But my wife & son are threatening that i'll be on my own after today. Can't really blame them, but sad thing is, there's prob lots thinking like them just now.

I'll go because I couldn't not go. But my wife & son are threatening that i'll be on my own after today. Can't really blame them, but sad thing is, there's prob lots thinking like them just now.

I take my 2 kids each week... after today they are refusing to come if they can't bring their Nintendo DS....

My son will never barrack for anyone other than Melbourne.....but they pointed out to me today that..."the Demon's flags will last for years cos we only wave them when we kick goal or win a game"

What have I done to them? My father made me a Demons supporter and I've done the same thing......is this another example of the sad cycle of family abuse?

I take my 2 kids each week... after today they are refusing to come if they can't bring their Nintendo DS....

My son will never barrack for anyone other than Melbourne.....but they pointed out to me today that..."the Demon's flags will last for years cos we only wave them when we kick goal or win a game"

What have I done to them? My father made me a Demons supporter and I've done the same thing......is this another example of the sad cycle of family abuse?

It's character-building.

I'm not sure why everyone is so surprised. I think the first practice-match against West Coast showed where we're at. I thought Scully looked really good at half-back and Trengrove and Strauss had their moments, too. Davey was disappointing and we don't have a forward line (though again that was already clear against West Coast). Hawthorn are also a top-flight team. That 22-point loss someone mentioned earlier should've been a 10-goal loss. I was at that game and Hawthorn just tuned out in the second-half.

The biggest problem I see is that we don't have an older, absolute champion to set the standard for these new young guys. They're going to have to find their way themselves. But at some point Jurrah, Sylvia, Watts, Woenamiri, Blease, Trengove, Strauss, Davey and Grimes will play in one team (and that's an outstanding half a side). I understand the frustration with Dean Bailey. But give the guy a couple of years. Mark Thompson took 10 with Geelong. If in a couple of years Bailey doesn't seem to be making much progress, there will be a queue to coach our level of talent (again as someone already mentioned). But it's way too early to make that call.

Keep the faith and keep taking your kids!

It's character-building.

I'm not sure why everyone is so surprised. I think the first practice-match against West Coast showed where we're at. I thought Scully looked really good at half-back and Trengrove and Strauss had their moments, too. Davey was disappointing and we don't have a forward line (though again that was already clear against West Coast). Hawthorn are also a top-flight team. That 22-point loss someone mentioned earlier should've been a 10-goal loss. I was at that game and Hawthorn just tuned out in the second-half.

The biggest problem I see is that we don't have an older, absolute champion to set the standard for these new young guys. They're going to have to find their way themselves. But at some point Jurrah, Sylvia, Watts, Woenamiri, Blease, Trengove, Strauss, Davey and Grimes will play in one team (and that's an outstanding half a side). I understand the frustration with Dean Bailey. But give the guy a couple of years. Mark Thompson took 10 with Geelong. If in a couple of years Bailey doesn't seem to be making much progress, there will be a queue to coach our level of talent (again as someone already mentioned). But it's way too early to make that call.

Keep the faith and keep taking your kids!

Thanks for that, a good perspective to sleep on! You can add Jordie McKenzie to that list too.

(and you're right about Mark Thompson, it wasn't so many years ago that Sam Newman was bemoaning all their handball and imploring the Cats to kick it long and direct to the forwards. Somehow 3 years ago the two styles came together, things clicked and the rest is history)

We'll be right. Just give it time. Lots and lots and lots of time.

Agree. I thought all last year that he is now playing like a rabbit caught in the headlights. He will just handball anywhere as soon as it looks like someone is near him. He appears to fear any body contact. He would have turned it over 10 times today.

Check your eyesight or have a look at the replay. Maybe both. 10 turnovers? Ha,ha.

Its what he did with those possessions though. Sprayed kicks and hospital handballs will not win us anything, and certainly put our young kids at risk.

It's funny that only Cam Bruce creates turnovers isn't it? He had 23 possessions @70%. Not up to his usual high standard of play but hardly 'horrendous'. No mention of turnovers or poor disposal of other experienced players.eg Junior 21 @57%, Jonesy 18 @ 50% and Davey 17 @59%. I wonder if Hawthorn supporters rubbish Luke Hodge with 34@65%. Must have been a few turnovers there I reckon. I guess everyone likes to find a scapegoat when the team loses.

It's funny that only Cam Bruce creates turnovers isn't it? He had 23 possessions @70%. Not up to his usual high standard of play but hardly 'horrendous'. No mention of turnovers or poor disposal of other experienced players.eg Junior 21 @57%, Jonesy 18 @ 50% and Davey 17 @59%. I wonder if Hawthorn supporters rubbish Luke Hodge with 34@65%. Must have been a few turnovers there I reckon. I guess everyone likes to find a scapegoat when the team loses.

Interesting stats that you highlight here, because I thought Hodge hit just about every target he was aiming at today. I didn't think Bruce was particularly bad today but what makes his turnovers seem worse are they take place near the boundary or on the flanks where there is less traffic. Jones should get cut more slack because he goes in and gets alot of his own ball and often has to beat 2 or 3 opponents around him once he gets his hands on it. Davey has no excuses and must achieve better effectiveness because he is a beautiful kick and receives most of his ball playing as an outside midfielder or running off half back.

The display was pretty awful I must say, but I agree with others on here that we do need to keep things in perspective. Can I make the following points:

1. I do think we fool ourselves on this site with our assessments of our current list. The most common comment here is that we have a gun backline. Well I certainly didn't see it yesterday. although the ball came in very quickly, we were constantly outmarked, the pressure was almost non existant, and finding targets further up the ground was awful. Further, some of the Hawks goals were very very soft from fundamental skill errors,

2. We are currently bottom of the list and have been for several years. We went into this match with an injury list as long as I can remember for this time of the year, which left it very difficult for us to be competitive. The hawks were premiers two years ago which naturally means they have much greater depth than us. It is understandable we got done.

3. Many of our senior players were clearly underdone, and some of them are not up to it at all (eg jones, miller). We will need to keep playing them for the time being, but we will have to face reality about this sooner rather than later,

4. The forward line will be good once we get back the cattle. Not many from yesterday's lot will survive.

5. Jamar was dominant but strangely ineffective. It was only in the last quarter that he started knocking the ball clear of the packs from the tapouts that wegot the ball in the open, and then started to out score the opposition. He will be better for that run,

6. The kids were a bit overwhelmed but you can definitely see "green shoots" there. Scully was better the longer the gamewent on. Trengrove was competitive but a bit outgunned but I'm sure will be excellent. Strauss was outgunned as is not yet up to it, Mackenzie has some get up and go,

In summary althoughit was dissappointing I think there were good reasons for it and it will improve, but perhaps not as fast as we all had fooled ourselves it would in the pre-season. I predict by the second half of the season we will see substantial improvement.

Keep the faith

the more things change..the more theystay the same..

All the hype and hope doesnt disguise the reality.Long .LONG way to go !!

The display was pretty awful I must say, but I agree with others on here that we do need to keep things in perspective. Can I make the following points:

1. I do think we fool ourselves on this site with our assessments of our current list. The most common comment here is that we have a gun backline. Well I certainly didn't see it yesterday. although the ball came in very quickly, we were constantly outmarked, the pressure was almost non existant, and finding targets further up the ground was awful. Further, some of the Hawks goals were very very soft from fundamental skill errors,

2. We are currently bottom of the list and have been for several years. We went into this match with an injury list as long as I can remember for this time of the year, which left it very difficult for us to be competitive. The hawks were premiers two years ago which naturally means they have much greater depth than us. It is understandable we got done.

3. Many of our senior players were clearly underdone, and some of them are not up to it at all (eg jones, miller). We will need to keep playing them for the time being, but we will have to face reality about this sooner rather than later,

4. The forward line will be good once we get back the cattle. Not many from yesterday's lot will survive.

5. Jamar was dominant but strangely ineffective. It was only in the last quarter that he started knocking the ball clear of the packs from the tapouts that wegot the ball in the open, and then started to out score the opposition. He will be better for that run,

6. The kids were a bit overwhelmed but you can definitely see "green shoots" there. Scully was better the longer the gamewent on. Trengrove was competitive but a bit outgunned but I'm sure will be excellent. Strauss was outgunned as is not yet up to it, Mackenzie has some get up and go,

In summary althoughit was dissappointing I think there were good reasons for it and it will improve, but perhaps not as fast as we all had fooled ourselves it would in the pre-season. I predict by the second half of the season we will see substantial improvement.

Keep the faith

I agree. Yesterday's performance was pathetic, but not wholly unexpected.

Whilst Hawthorn had several key 'outs', so did we. We also do not have a forward line. At all.

We also have the experience of a TAC Cup team - and we were playing a team who is a realistic chance of winning the flag.

This team will struggle for a while, though, much like yesterday's game, I think things will improve as the season progresses. Scully and Trengove will really increasingly feel they can compete at this level (as they can).

I will be very happy if we finish 11th this year, following a lot of wins and strong performances towards the end of the season.