Our VCE Boys

[Nasher 33,607]

Funny. Judd, Ball, Martin et al score off the chart, and suddenly some expect all our footballers to also be geniuses. He's an elite(!) athlete with the world at his feet, and unless he planned on studying medicine, his VCE score is going to count for next to nothing, because I doubt he'll have that much trouble getting admitted in to University if he chooses to do that. Let's try and be a little bit reasonable.

[DeeSpencer 25,447]

as i said, 59 is above average across the country. yes i know hayliebury have a great record academically, but they also have a good record on the sporting field and as far as im aware provide scholarships based on sporting performance also.

why kick a kid who performed slightly above average academically and also happens to be one of the best young footballers in the country? not everyone can excel at everything can they?

you'll be one of those moron parents who expect their kids to get 90's and simply doesnt understand what that means.

Firstly, I did VCE in 2006 so I know exactly what it means, and I hope its a while until I'm an idiot parent! Scully might well have been able to work really hard and to the best of his ability in getting 59, but I have my concerns.

It is just my opinion that everyone should be given a fair crack at VCE without having to train like a part time elite athlete. Because to get drafted unless you are Buddy Franklin like talent you have to commit a great deal to your TAC team, and I believe it would hinder their VCE performaces.

It doesn't affect Scully so much, he has a great shot at setting himself up for life with a footy career. But what about the guys who poured a massive amount of effort into their footy and didn't get drafted. They now have less chance of doing what they want to do. That said kids out there, a lot of my friends who didn't get what they wanted in 2006 are exactly where they want to be now.

And yes Hayliebury give out sporting scholarships. They bought a good chunk of their first XVIII over the last few years, and I believe its a ploy that hasn't been as successful as they hoped it would.

[Don24 103]

Ball did get 98 point something, solid effort with a heap on his plate at the time.

59 while above average technically, that is a bit misleading. Its a pretty average score. Yes its above average but then there are a lot of people who just put their names on the final exams to ensure their completion of high school and a lot of other reasons for the state average to be brought down. Not a lot of people are happy with 59. Good thing he can seriously play football and will most likely end up earning more than whoever got dux of his school!

[Demon Tragic 0]

as i said, 59 is above average across the country. yes i know hayliebury have a great record academically, but they also have a good record on the sporting field and as far as im aware provide scholarships based on sporting performance also.

why kick a kid who performed slightly above average academically and also happens to be one of the best young footballers in the country? not everyone can excel at everything can they?

you'll be one of those moron parents who expect their kids to get 90's and simply doesnt understand what that means.

Agreed Deanox - 59 is a good score. This would get him into an Physical Ed/Teaching course at Deakin University! I happen to think that your Enter score is a reflection of your effort & ability. Alot of people in Tom's position could have just dropped off at the end of the year and not studies for thier exams and still passed, my brother did exactly that and still passed his VCE.

Given the distractions Tom endured, finishing your VCE and achieving a score of 59 is something to be proud of, please don't diminish his achievements, sometimes the effort is more important than the result!

Edited December 22, 2009 by Demon Tragic

[MrReims 313]

Ball did get 98 point something, solid effort with a heap on his plate at the time.

59 while above average technically, that is a bit misleading. Its a pretty average score. Yes its above average but then there are a lot of people who just put their names on the final exams to ensure their completion of high school and a lot of other reasons for the state average to be brought down. Not a lot of people are happy with 59. Good thing he can seriously play football and will most likely end up earning more than whoever got dux of his school!

Thank you! Let if firstly be said that I am in no way trying to attack the kid, but come on, for the sake of argument I think most would consider 59 to be a pretty ordinary score. I graduated WAAAAAAAAY back in 2000 (lol) and I know some kids who were devastated by roughly the same score. And I went to Wangaratta High School for pete's sake!

Absolutely agree his time was probably spent far more on football. But from what I have read about him and the articulate way he speaks I wouldn't have put him in the "typical meathead jock" category. So either he just winged his exams and hoped for the best or he (i hope not) just ain't that bright. Sorry.....

[Batemania 4]

Luke Ball got 98 and he is the only person in the last 10 years to get 50 (top in the state) for latin.

[pringle 42]

If this was a collingwood website, we would all be on here marveling at this supreme athlete who is also a genius.

[jayceebee31 759]

If this was a collingwood website, we would all be on here marveling at this supreme athlete who is also a genius.

Are you talking Stef Martin- whom I feel has the potential to be a very good footballer whom I also believe got 99.1 or thereabouts.-

[pringle 42]

Nope, still referring to Scully B) .

[deanox 9,897]

the problem is people misunderstand the system, and it appears most people on here do as well.

for every person who gets a score above 50, another person must get a score below 50.

similarly, for every person who gets a score above 80, 4 others must get a score below 80.

we are not talking 59%, which is an poor score, just above a pass. we are talking about being ranked on the 59th percentile of all vce students in australia who passed the VCE, a major difference. This does not include the people who dropped out or failed, only those who satisfied the requirements.

It is not a score that puts his academic ability in the group of people who will be rocket scientists or brain surgeons, but it puts him in the top half of the state statistically for his academic achievements.

people who are disappointed with 59 are disappointed because they hoped to score better and get into a higher ranked course. if the majority of uni places did not only go to the top 20-30 percent of students 59 would be a reasonable score.

if you were in a class with 30 people and you were ranked as the 13th best student (ie 12 students performed better than you and 17 performed worse than you) then you would be on the 59th percentile of that class. If you wanted to be a doctor maybe that is worrying, if you have designs on pursuing an academic career which involves further study maybe you need to lift a little bit, but otherwise you are above average in the areas of academic study.

[deanox 9,897]

It is just my opinion that everyone should be given a fair crack at VCE without having to train like a part time elite athlete. Because to get drafted unless you are Buddy Franklin like talent you have to commit a great deal to your TAC team, and I believe it would hinder their VCE performaces.

this is a completely different issue than the uestion of whether 59 is a good score or not, and probably deserves its own thread.

however i think you answered your own questions.

a lot of people think they might have a crack at afl so train hard only not to make, but then found their VCE results have suffered. but vice versa i know a number of people who followed academic studies in an attempt to get high VCE marks rather than follow their passion for music or sport, which they may have made it in if they had of dedicated themselves.

VCE is not the be all end all, and you made the point that you knew people who were unhappy at the time but are happy now. apart from being the obvious options of apprenticeships and working in a job, there are also back door entrys to unis such as tafe courses and interships that if you show the desire to succeed and work hard enough can be opened up to you, and it may only cost you an extra year of study.

In this case, perhaps VCE results are really not that important, especially considering that if you want to be an afl player and dont get drafted in your under 18 year there is not really much chance of you getting drafted in subsequent years? if these kids decided to give it a crack they were well aware of the risks, and if they were not willing to work hard on their studies as well they are responsible for their own situation, but if they wish to get themselves into a better position you have already told us how it is possible.

[fishardansin 0]

It was Chris Judd who got 98.

[Redleg 40,827]

Rick and Derek Feldman were other jewish players who played for Melbourne, Keith Baskin had a good career at the Swans and Rick Marks briefly for the tigers.

[discworld demon 0]

as i said, 59 is above average across the country. yes i know hayliebury have a great record academically, but they also have a good record on the sporting field and as far as im aware provide scholarships based on sporting performance also.

Hailebury College like Caulfield Grammar, Scotch College and other Associated Public Schools do provide sporting scholarships to talented girls and boys.

I am aware that down the peninsula some headmasters at some government and smaller private schools curse Hailebury for nicking their home grown talent.

I have been informed by a football coach from Scotch that the school thinks the scholarships are money well spent for the publicity the school receives!

Pity the parents paying $20K plus a year to send their lads to the school!

Edited December 22, 2009 by discworld demon

[True Believer 1]

an enter score is only required for your chosen course/uni. Each course requires a different score.

And jobs don't require enter scores at all.

Well Done to Scully and Watts.

[Scully_to_Watts 0]

what about trengove score 96or something in the SA system same as Vics

[DeeSpencer 25,447]

Hailebury College like Caulfield Grammar, Scotch College and other Associated Public Schools do provide sporting scholarships to talented girls and boys.

I am aware that down the peninsula some headmasters at some government and smaller private schools curse Hailebury for nicking their home grown talent.

I have been informed by a football coach from Scotch that the school thinks the scholarships are money well spent for the publicity the school receives!

Pity the parents paying $20K plus a year to send their lads to the school!

The Scotch scholarships for football largely go to indigenous kids - Junior Rioli, Nathan Djerkurra are 2 of them - and do raise some publicity which I doubt Scotch cares much for as well as improving the team. But the main reason for them is to give something back to this country and try to help the indigenous people. I believe rightly or wrong Scotch believes that their education will produce better role models and leaders out of young indigenous men than if they stayed at home. In particular, Scotch has a strong link with the Tiwi islands (home of Rioli). I think giving a bunch of well to do kids a closer experience with indigenous Australians is also a positive.

Other scholarships go to boys who wouldn't be able to afford the fees.

No doubt a lot of the other APS schools hand them out along a similar line (Melbourne Grammar have adopted a similar tactic of scholarships to indigenous players - Stephen May who will end up at the gold coast is one of them).

Haileybury received widespread criticism as their scholarships were more of a recruiting drive and did steal talented young footballers from other schools - often very good and expensive schools. I'm not sure whether they still have this practice in place, I would hope not.

[Whispering_Jack 29,770]

Rick and Derek Feldman were other jewish players who played for Melbourne, Keith Baskin had a good career at the Swans and Rick Marks briefly for the tigers.

Shame on you for not remembering that champion of the Barassi era Trevor Korn (3 games in 1981)!

[SuzDee 13]

There's no mention of Sam Blease here...he was another player to complete Yr12 this year

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Agreed Deanox - 59 is a good score. This would get him into an Physical Ed/Teaching course at Deakin University! I happen to think that your Enter score is a reflection of your effort & ability.

More the effort than anything.

I barely turned up in the last year of school, as I'd been admitted to my course already. I had a HUGE amount of distraction, probably something akin to what they went through (though without the media attention obviously) and I got the exact same score.

When you KNOW what your next 5-10 years are going to involve, it's hard to really knuckle down. It's what makes Luke Ball's score so amazing. Compared to most kids he probably didn't NEED a high score.

These kids will barely remember this stuff in 2-3 years. And rightly so. WAY to much emphasis is placed on this comparison based score. I love Australia for our education system (have a look at America), but I think at 17-18 it is a bit out of whack.

[JACKATTACK 17]

More the effort than anything.

I barely turned up in the last year of school, as I'd been admitted to my course already. I had a HUGE amount of distraction, probably something akin to what they went through (though without the media attention obviously) and I got the exact same score.

When you KNOW what your next 5-10 years are going to involve, it's hard to really knuckle down. It's what makes Luke Ball's score so amazing. Compared to most kids he probably didn't NEED a high score.

These kids will barely remember this stuff in 2-3 years. And rightly so. WAY to much emphasis is placed on this comparison based score. I love Australia for our education system (have a look at America), but I think at 17-18 it is a bit out of whack.

Completely agree, if I knew I was about to be playing AFL and most likely earning hundreds of thousands I reckon I would have got about 30.

For all the very smart decent footballers out there (Ball) there are plenty of exceptionally talented ones that probably only performed admirably or below par. Wayne Carey maybe?

[Angry_Bird 0]

A few comments/observations:

- Still don't know how Jack Watts went

- Sam Blease and school is not something I ever want to hear in the same sentence again - therefore didn't ask about him

- Phil and Brian Goldberg played Melbourne reserves and U19 in the early 90's - Phil was captain of the U19s

[BennytheJet 15]

Whilst I preface this post with the comment that I believe the TER scores of Scully et al are entirely none of our business, I will say that I think Scully's score, whilst not dreadful by any stretch of the imagination, came as a bit of a surprise to me. This is because he is clearly so focused, driven and competitive in his sporting life, and that same competitiveness etc generally crosses over to the academic side.

The days of kids who are "only" footballers are long gone considering the awareness, mentoring and education that the top footballers receive from a young age.

And dont kid yourselves, 59 is not a "good score" - and Im certain Tom would think the same.

[Keyser Söze 0]

Whilst I preface this post with the comment that I believe the TER scores of Scully et al are entirely none of our business, I will say that I think Scully's score, whilst not dreadful by any stretch of the imagination, came as a bit of a surprise to me. This is because he is clearly so focused, driven and competitive in his sporting life, and that same competitiveness etc generally crosses over to the academic side.

The days of kids who are "only" footballers are long gone considering the awareness, mentoring and education that the top footballers receive from a young age.

And dont kid yourselves, 59 is not a "good score" - and Im certain Tom would think the same.

Its all relative.

59 could be a good score considering the amount of time he dedicated to his studies, due to all the time he invested in footy.

We've all heard the stories about him training on his own, kicking hundreds of shots at goal on the run on his right, because he missed a few at training -- doesn't leave much time for algebra homework.

Edited December 23, 2009 by Keyser Söze

[MrReims 313]

Its all relative.

59 could be a good score considering the amount of time he dedicated to his studies, due to all the time he invested in footy.

We've all heard the stories about him training on his own, kicking hundreds of shots at goal on the run on his right, because he missed a few at training -- doesn't leave much time for algebra homework.

Thats all i said! Jeepers, people are sensitive on this forum some times! As for this 59 meaning he ranked 59% bullsh#t, sorry deanox my man, you are completely wrong. But nevermind all of that. My point was only that he articulated himself extremely well so hopefully it was more a refection on his dedication to football than his actual mental prowess. Damn people, i know the footy season is a fair way away, but for petes sake switch to decaf. I wasn't meaning to offend....