Ist Pick In Pre-season Draft

[Guest hangon007]

Ist Pick In Pre-season Draft ... How important is it? How much tougher can we be with our negotiations for un-contracted player?

[beelzebub 23,388]

Ist Pick In Pre-season Draft ... How important is it? How much tougher can we be with our negotiations for un-contracted player?

PSD1 is a very handy little piece as a bargaining tool in trade negotiations. PSD1 can also be handy for smokies i.e LJ

Just how much value PSD1 can muster is totally dependent on who is looking to move to where and how much talks have stalled.

I would suggest this is the last time we will have this pick for quite some time so we might as well make the best of it. PSD1 can turn out to be a handy trade bait item if and especially if a particular club we wish todeal with needs it to leverage another club then its currency to us goes up.

Reality is its a very plasticene like pick. Handy to have, but unknown value til trade week gathers momentum.

[Guest hangon007]

PSD1 can also be handy for smokies i.e LJ

This scenario came about more by luck than by good management.

IMHO we failed to leverage Pick 1 in PSD ... because sadly few players have a desire to come to Melbourne.

I'm just hoping this year we can leverage Pick 1 in PSD .. but sadly I'm not confident.

[beelzebub 23,388]

This scenario came about more by luck than by good management.

IMHO we failed to leverage Pick 1 in PSD ... because sadly few players have a desire to come to Melbourne.

I'm just hoping this year we can leverage Pick 1 in PSD .. but sadly I'm not confident.

we didnt fail to leverage...there was NOTHING to leverage. It has no value in that regard if there is no push and shove.

LJ..luck ?? good fortune maybe..luck ?? NO.. We did our homework and were in a position with PSD1 to grab him before a nmber of other clubs ( who were also aware of him ) did.

You are short changing the FD's ability if you think that was all down to luck.

[Disco Demons 92]

interesting post...i don't think the PSD is as strong as people think...it's a chance to recycle rejects...happens that we got a rippa reject in LJ...i think he was at collingwood. But it took brining him to melb to make him a champ!

Hutchy on the footy show said, 'brian lake (dogs) has been told that he is not going to be traded. if he wants to go elsewhere he has to go via the pre-season draft. So dogs have basically held him to ransom'.

not 100% sure how the psd works...but the impression i got is...i think he wouldn't have as strong bargaining power via psd.

feel free to correct me guys...

[beelzebub 23,388]

interesting post...i don't think the PSD is as strong as people think...it's a chance to recycle rejects...happens that we got a rippa reject in LJ...i think he was at collingwood. But it took brining him to melb to make him a champ!

Hutchy on the footy show said, 'brian lake (dogs) has been told that he is not going to be traded. if he wants to go elsewhere he has to go via the pre-season draft. So dogs have basically held him to ransom'.

not 100% sure how the psd works...but the impression i got is...i think he wouldn't have as strong bargaining power via psd.

feel free to correct me guys...

Not trying to be picky...but they sort of contradict.. not directly, but nealry I do understnd whatyour circling in on though. The problem with the PSD and in particular PSD1 is it has a kind of abstract quality. With the teh Draft proper its cut and dried. It quantified and qualified. You know exactly whatyoure dealig with if not the specific order of outcomes. With the PSd it is, again rather like plasticene in that it can take on various aand varying qualities depending upon the siutation that present. It also has an aor of 'double dipping " about it. It can be used to leverage other negotiations and if still retained after is usuable in itself.

Personally I feel it is of immense value even if its not used to snare a Jurrah every time. We dont know the makeup of the Pre Season Draft yet and wont until trade week finishes so its akin to discussing the length of string at tehe moment.

What power any player has going into the PSD is really dependent upon what dealings/discussions have transpired prior. The PSD used to be the predominant domain for the recycled player but now they can list in the draft and so this may well change the value of teh pick. PSd is still the avenue of choice for the disgruntled player but clubs are geting more savvy with this effect. In many respects the greatest value of PSD1 is as a threat, but I suspect incoming years it may well be used as a intake path for players coming more and more from outside the commonly accepted streams. Some clubs may encourage some players who wouldnt /havent made it to the draft to nominate. Probably time will tell.

All in all though Im happy we have it

[Disco Demons 92]

Not trying to be picky...but they sort of contradict.. not directly, but nealry I do understnd whatyour circling in on though.

'i don't think the PSD is as strong as people think'...i was refering to the calibre of players in it...pure opinion...

'not 100% sure how the psd works'...i was refering to how players are paid. ie., how they setup players contracts...so if buddy franklin was going to come into the PSD for some reason...how would a club or him setup his contract?

you get me...?

[Spaghetti 264]

If there are no uncontracted players (or no LJs) we are after, it is better to use the pick in the ND.

[beelzebub 23,388]

'i don't think the PSD is as strong as people think'...i was refering to the calibre of players in it...pure opinion...

'not 100% sure how the psd works'...i was refering to how players are paid. ie., how they setup players contracts...so if buddy franklin was going to come into the PSD for some reason...how would a club or him setup his contract?

you get me...?

A contract is a contract...probably nothing specialy different about it other than the dolleros that say in your example Buddy would place on himself. He would set this at a level hopefully abvoe that which any team with a PSD pick prior to his chosen club can/willing to afford. Depending on the player such contracts may be back ended to facilitate caps etc but then this is done for many players not just one entering the PSD.

If say Team A wanted player B but A didnt really want to pay above the going rate but player B was happy enough to move to that club, indeed that may be the whole inducement but team A didnt have an early enough PSD pick then if it was able it might orchestrate a trade elsewhere to garner the PSD pick.

This may well be the value to us this year. A team wanting our first pick may provide us with something worthwhile

[Guest hangon007]

we didnt fail to leverage...there was NOTHING to leverage. It has no value in that regard if there is no push and shove.

LJ..luck ?? good fortune maybe..luck ?? NO.. We did our homework and were in a position with PSD1 to grab him before a nmber of other clubs ( who were also aware of him ) did.

You are short changing the FD's ability if you think that was all down to luck.

Re Jurah ... Luck that the Magpies bungled his draft papers hence making him ineligible for the draft proper ... that was luck. Had they not Jurah was gone long before Pick 1 in the PSD.

Leverage is what you get when an un-contracted player comes out and says ... "Yes I want to go Melbourne" ... Prismal & Warnock come to mind last year ... neither nominated us ... hence we got no leverage in the negotiation ... it came down to a bidding process which we lost in both cases.

[Guest hangon007]

'i don't think the PSD is as strong as people think'...

The PSD is as weak or a strong as you want to make it ... or at least the "threat" is as weak or as strong ... if you understand my point.

[beelzebub 23,388]

Re Jurah ... Luck that the Magpies bungled his draft papers hence making him ineligible for the draft proper ... that was luck. Had they not Jurah was gone long before Pick 1 in the PSD.

Leverage is what you get when an un-contracted player comes out and says ... "Yes I want to go Melbourne" ... Prismal & Warnock come to mind last year ... neither nominated us ... hence we got no leverage in the negotiation ... it came down to a bidding process which we lost in both cases.

there was NO process as neither , as you state wanted tocome to us. It does reinforce what we are saying that levergae is variant and dependent upon circumstances. Theres no absolute to it..

My understanding is that the magpies werent keen to chance Jurrah. They appreciated the talent but in the end didnt have the balls to pick him. We had done due diligence and the club was happy enough that he was well worth the the gamble. Not so much luck there..as fortitude.

[Guest hangon007]

there was NO process as neither , as you state wanted tocome to us. It does reinforce what we are saying that levergae is variant and dependent upon circumstances. Theres no absolute to it..

My understanding is that the magpies werent keen to chance Jurrah. They appreciated the talent but in the end didnt have the balls to pick him. We had done due diligence and the club was happy enough that he was well worth the the gamble. Not so much luck there..as fortitude.

Yeah ... but leverage is what you make of it ... and I agree "variant and dependent upon circumstances." However, we must make our own circumstances. Now put bluntly if that means $$$$ sorry .... this is the year to do it.

"My understanding is that the magpies werent keen to chance Jurrah. They appreciated the talent but in the end didnt have the balls to pick him. We had done due diligence and the club was happy enough that he was well worth the the gamble. Not so much luck there..as fortitude."

Sorry this is not the case. Pure and simple oversight/mistake by Magpies. Had they filled out his papers he would have nominated. He didn't nominate ... the rest is history as they say.

[beelzebub 23,388]

Curious about the filth.. not doubting you so much but would be intrigued to get the full story off of say Rudeboy ( if youre listening ??? )

I think we are a very different enity going into this years PSD and trade , for that matter as compared even to last year. I think the footy world can se whatwe are about and where we're heading. We are no longer the basketcase , we are now quite the savvy, shrewd and ruthles club prepared to do what it takes to get there. We have quite a bit of burgeoning talent. we have excised the team of much of its burden and will have some exciting prospects coming on board. Hell...we may even be a team of choice. Is thatpushing it ?

I feel reasonably confident we will extract al the value for PSD1 that is there this year. Its our last trip to the well and the club knows it

[Guest hangon007]

I think we are a very different enity going into this years PSD and trade , for that matter as compared even to last year. I think the footy world can se whatwe are about and where we're heading. We are no longer the basketcase , we are now quite the savvy, shrewd and ruthles club prepared to do what it takes to get there. We have quite a bit of burgeoning talent. we have excised the team of much of its burden and will have some exciting prospects coming on board. Hell...we may even be a team of choice. Is thatpushing it ?

Thats it I love it ... and not an unreasonable scenario ... However, lets be prepared to back it up with a few $$$$ ... because all said and done - talk is cheap, let the $$$$ do the talking for us!

[Redleg 41,745]

Yeah ... but leverage is what you make of it ... and I agree "variant and dependent upon circumstances." However, we must make our own circumstances. Now put bluntly if that means $$$$ sorry .... this is the year to do it.

/quote]

Correct. The real advantage of pick 1 in the PSD is if you are able to convince players to commit to you then their club must be realistic in their dealing with you or face losing the player without any compensation. Stevens was the high profile recent example.

It only works if the player is absolutely committed to you and prepared to follow through with his threat of going into the PSD if his club refuses to deal. This position is not easy to get to.

Also clubs are generally loathe to "pinch" players for nothing. We all know the saying " what goes around comes around".

If we are able to convince an uncontracted player to come to us it will help greatly in the negotiations with his club. You are placed in the position of getting a slightly better deal than otherwise without PSD 1.

Other than that it just gives you first pick of whoever is available at that time.

[beelzebub 23,388]

Thats it I love it ... and not an unreasonable scenario ... However, lets be prepared to back it up with a few $$$$ ... because all said and done - talk is cheap, let the $$$$ do the talking for us!

Im not sure if 8-bucks will do it..might have tooffer 10 !

Seriously though, we are in a position to haggle and deal and we should push it for all its worth. Ya just never know what may fall out if you shake that tree hard enough

[Redleg 41,745]

Seriously though, we are in a position to haggle and deal and we should push it for all its worth. Ya just never know what may fall out if you shake that tree hard enough

Maybe just rotten fruit.

[John Dee 445]

"My understanding is that the magpies werent keen to chance Jurrah. They appreciated the talent but in the end didnt have the balls to pick him. We had done due diligence and the club was happy enough that he was well worth the the gamble. Not so much luck there..as fortitude."

Jurrah playing for us is pure serendipity. The filth had decided he was too much trouble and we did not know that he would be there when we kept a spot open to use in the PSD. Rupert Betharus got him into the PSD, and the rest is history.

I would love for it to happen again, but don't expect it to.

[beelzebub 23,388]

Maybe just rotten fruit.

maybe indeed..

but just in case a nice ripe'n one falls we better be alert and quick to catch it

[Redleg 41,745]

maybe indeed..

but just in case a nice ripe'n one falls we better be alert and quick to catch it

I do love a nice mango.

[beelzebub 23,388]

I do love a nice mango.

not touching that line !!

[e25 5]

I think we should go HARD for Boak.

The thing is, Port would probably do a deal with a Victorian club for less than he's worth rather than play hardball because they'd understand his wanting to come home for compassionate circumstances.

But he'd be a very handy little pickup

[Disco Demons 92]

so melbourne has pick 1,2,18, 34?

i'm keen to use pick 1,2,18.....would happy to trade up for earlier picks etc....but at the moment we also have 1st pick in the PSD...

when does pick 1 in the PSD become a better pick than the normal draft???

[e25 5]

I know his father quite well.

He won't be coming back to play in Victoria any time soon bar a dramatic change in circumstances.