Of course I "get it". You can try and justify your feelings on wanting a loss but I don't agree with you.

i would never begrudge you for going to the footy and wanting to win, why else would you go,the only people that are losing are the AFL thru gate receipts, i wont be going to the G until we play freo,its a bad system that needs to be changed,but one things for sure,were going to have a red hot list next season.

Trying to build a team?

It's not complicated.

This is how footy goes:

18 players are on the field for each team, all in different positions.

Each player works together to try and beat the opposition.

The only way of building a team is by winning.

We have lost 51 games since 2007.

A couple of scrappy wins against pathetic opposition does not a winning culture make.

Why would everyone want us to lose?

We haven't won our 4 games yet.

Steve, allow us some respect. How old are you, & when did you start following the DEES???

I'm not an idiot. I just don't know why you would want our players play. But not win. What if Jack Grimes or Ricky Petterd were having shots on goal on the siren?

Dude. For the last time... we want our players to play to win. We just hope we don't win today. We want the coach and match committee to pick and set the side up for the future and not for today. We all want to win 4. We just don't want to win 5, because the 5th win as a meaningless win but a massive loss.

Trying to build a team?

It's not complicated.

This is how footy goes:

18 players are on the field for each team, all in different positions.

Each player works together to try and beat the opposition.

The only way of building a team is by winning.

Right. Except if you're Brisbane, Saints, Hawks or WC who all bottomed out to get players and won flags (or look like they will, at least).

Well, younger players tank according to you.

Please show me when I said that players tank... go on

Players NEVER tank, and if they do, they should be shown the door.

But the clubs, the coaches, administration etc... tank.

Do you think Bailey would have a job tomorrow morning if our administration wasn't on board with this 'list development' process? Bailey would never ever play Warnock and Frawley up forward, Miller in the ruck (when PJ was at CHB), Newton on the wing and PJ on Brown if he didn't have full backing from those above him.

The club is tanking, and as a support of this club I am very happy and proud that we are choosing to play the system to its full advantage.

I bet you'll be the first to praise Scully when he dominates games of football for us.

Please show me when I said that players tank... go on

Players NEVER tank, and if they do, they should be shown the door.

But the clubs, the coaches, administration etc... tank.

Do you think Bailey would have a job tomorrow morning if our administration wasn't on board with this 'list development' process? Bailey would never ever play Warnock and Frawley up forward, Miller in the ruck (when PJ was at CHB), Newton on the wing and PJ on Brown if he didn't have full backing from those above him.

The club is tanking, and as a support of this club I am very happy and proud that we are choosing to play the system to its full advantage.

I bet you'll be the first to praise Scully when he dominates games of football for us.

Me too. I am happy we have the balls to bottom out, and Bailey clearly has heaps of mongrel because he stopped at nothing today to protect the pick.

Steve, allow us some respect. How old are you, & when did you start following the DEES???

[censored] post, whats it matter how long the kids followed the club for,hes a demon just like you, show some respect.

well I had my heart in my mouth.. had hoped the Dees would have wraped up this game ( as a loss !! ) before this. McMahon handed us a "get out of Jail ' pass...thankyou !!!

Please show me when I said that players tank... go on

Players NEVER tank, and if they do, they should be shown the door.

But the clubs, the coaches, administration etc... tank.

Do you think Bailey would have a job tomorrow morning if our administration wasn't on board with this 'list development' process? Bailey would never ever play Warnock and Frawley up forward, Miller in the ruck (when PJ was at CHB), Newton on the wing and PJ on Brown if he didn't have full backing from those above him.

The club is tanking, and as a support of this club I am very happy and proud that we are choosing to play the system to its full advantage.

I bet you'll be the first to praise Scully when he dominates games of football for us.

Well, yes I will be the first to praise Scully if he comes. oops I mean when he comes.

What if he has had as minimal impact as Watts has had this year?

Next year will you want our team to win regardless?

Steve, allow us some respect. How old are you, & when did you start following the DEES???

To answer your question I'm 14 I've followed the Dees closely for my whole life.

I don't know how old you are. It doesn't matter. We're all Demons supporters.

Yeah I wanted him to kick it and I'm so glad he did, but gee did I feel sorry for the players.

Seeing the elation from Ricky and the boys when he drilled that one to put us in front...

Really made me quite sad to see them after the shot. They played their hearts out today.

But Bailey did the right thing today, no doubt about it.

If we go through the motions against North we can smash Freo then get close to the Blues and the Saints and come back in October ready to launch a serious challenge on 2010 and beyond.

I celebrated, and I dont give a crap. I'd rather a premiership in 5 years than a single win against Richmond in a year where we'll achieve nothing.

Well, yes I will be the first to praise Scully if he comes. oops I mean when he comes.

What if he has had as minimal impact as Watts has had this year?

Next year will you want our team to win regardless?

It's not about next year. It's about our chances of getting a premiership in the next 5 or so years. Next year we cannot and will not win the flag. But we must try to win every game and hopefully finish with 8-10.

Even with Priority picks in the back of my mind, I didn't want McMahon to kick the goal. He didn't deserve the mark in the first place and I was completely devestated by it. But that's just bad luck and in the end the pro-tankers got what they wanted and we got to see the team becoming a much stronger unit!

To answer your question I'm 14 I've followed the Dees closely for my whole life.

I don't know how old you are. It doesn't matter. We're all Demons supporters.

You're right, it doesn't matter.

But you have to realise why DB is doing what he is doing or you'll go insane.

The easiest thing for DB to do would be to not make the changes and get some unconstructive wins, but he sees what is on offer and is acting accordingly.

I danced around like we'd won the premiership... I love McMuffin.

btw - how are WC going to lose this one? 29 up at half time.

You're right, it doesn't matter.

But you have to realise why DB is doing what he is doing or you'll go insane.

The easiest thing for DB to do would be to not make the changes and get some unconstructive wins, but he sees what is on offer and is acting accordingly.

I see where you're coming from, but Dean Bailey himself should be ashamed, because he has confronted the media numerous times, saying we don't believe in tanking and we go out there to win every week. Then supporters like me who want to win, see that rubbish that Dean Bailey put on the field today.

Teams would still tank for a Judd or a Franklin, the extra pick (priority), just adds incentive.

The priority pick, concept is valuable to truly down & out teams.

But the certainty of finishing amongst the bottom 2 or 3 & getting one of the best kids in the land, is just too strong.

The lottery style (bottom 8) draft, with the priority pick rolling around in that barrell, will sort this issue.

I'd be very surprised (and angry if Melbourne did it) if a club would tank just to go 2-3 places high in the draft, history tells us that here is very little between picks 1-7. In fact more often than not it's those lower picks that do better.

You're still going to get ONE very talented player whether you finish 14th or 12th. I still think the bottom team's should get the picks in order of who's worst (ladder wise), the possibility of 9th getting pick 1 just seems wrong.

The only way I would vote on this poll is if there was a third choice - 'Neither, I was confused and felt like throwing up.'

If given the choice today between a win or a loss I would have chosen loss. No question. No hesitation. Simply put, the lure of the PP is too much to deny for anybody in their right mind. We all know this. A meaningless win over an atrocious Richmond, would be worth nothing to us in the long term. Richmond were about as bad today as I've ever seen a team play. Their decision making throughout the game was as bad as I've ever seen.

But I can't feel happy about losing. Seeing the players on the ground after the game, I felt gutted for them. They're our boys. They ran their guts out to win.

As for the kick after the siren, it was the single most bizarre moment I have experienced in my 30 years as a Melbourne supporter. I wanted McMahon to kick it. And I wanted him to miss it. I pretty much said to myself, whatever happens happens. I felt sick in the guts. When he kicked it, I didn't feel relief. I didn't feel joy. Nor did I feel disappointment. I was simply confused. I didn't know what to do. In the heat of the moment, it was such a terrible conflict of emotions.

The final quarter was an agony to sit through. I'd pretty much given up on the PP late in the game. We did everything within our power to lose the game and it looked like we were still going to win. I was starting to resigned myself to the fact that we'd lost Tom Scully. And I was shitty about it. All we've been through and we were going to ditch it for a 2point win over a terrible team.

The circumstances we find ourselves in suck. I hate it and I hate it more and more by the day.

But it's just an agony we have to endure and soon enough it will be over. And it can't be over soon enough. This time next year, it will all feel like a bad dream, because that's what today felt like, a bad dream.

Come draft day I will feel excitement. But right now, I hate it the whole fricking thing.

To answer your question I'm 14 I've followed the Dees closely for my whole life.

I don't know how old you are. It doesn't matter. We're all Demons supporters.

I'm not questioning your attitude, nor your love for the club.

You sort of asked a question, which was trying to "get", why people would not want the points from a win...

I think For me that answer is easy because of the time frame that I've supported the mighty DEES, & the hardship I & most of my age group have endured. (the late sixties & the seventies + the eighties were a nightmare to suffer).

Since then things have been somewhat more tolerable for some.

Our, The righteous attitude of past management era's has caused us to (Not Play The Game) as it where.

We've hurt ourselves, the club has hurt it's supporters over & over the decades by failing to get those talented players that win games of footy & cause the club to grow into a dominant power side that ruthlessly crushes opposition sides & goes on to win Premierships.

For you to understand this attitude that wills us to get 2 early picks is born out of much prolonged pain & suffering, that has taught us through experience, that enough is enough, & we want our share of the happiness & glory of having a powerfull team, that is run by a powerfull administration.

If the club & the AFL wants us to continue supporting our club whilst continually being in the bottom 2/3rds of the ladder/competition for ever & ever, forget it...

Been their done that, No More.

Edited August 2, 200915 yr by dee-luded

Absolutely.

McMahon...ha! One of the worst players in the comp. Lucky to kick it, lucky to get the mark. About time things go our way, what a horrible thing to say.

I and about 10 others in the Bullring (I couldn't watch it from my seat) all cheered.

Horrible situation.

Shows how disgusting this current system is! I too was praying for the ball to go through, but felt terrible about it afterwards. Any system that rewards losing will always be flawed. Time to make a change for sure.

no - I was not happy he kicked it!

I am sick of the tanking debate- that kick after the siren can't be orchestrated- we were trying to win although we did not have many number 1 team players in! Which means how bad are Richmond!

I agree- the tankards are out in full force. Full of the beverage that tankards are supposed to contain.

I felt like an absolute [censored] today. I wanted Mcmahon to kick that goal. I saw Melbourne fans walk out in dusgust when Ricky nailed that goal with less than 2 minutes to go and fans celebrating like we had won a flag after Mcmahon kicked the goal. Then I saw the players looking totally gutted laying on the ground and I thought to myself how can I possibly want my team to lose.

The priority pick has got to go! Clearly on todays performance, the players do not tank, but Bailey tanked like his llife depended on it today. At one stage we had Spencer, Miller , Jetta and Bate in the middle (look out fab four). Then Grimes n Cheney had a crack! I particularly liked Dunn(tagger) on Jackson(tagger) early in the 1st quarter. Warnock in the forwardline was a masterstroke as was Juice Newton in defence.

However, all I can say is, well done Bails. We didnt make the stupid rule, but we would be jeopardising our tilt at the flag in 3 years time if we didnt milk it for all it is worth today.

It's not about next year. It's about our chances of getting a premiership in the next 5 or so years. Next year we cannot and will not win the flag. But we must try to win every game and hopefully finish with 8-10.

Totally, spot-on. Exactly how I feel.

Next year we will have exited our timeframe of bottoming out & will be List strong enough to forge ahead up the ladder in the know that we will have a list to sustain the hurly-burly of the competition in the next few years.

Now we must ensure that our footy dept resources are sufficient to give our young Listed players everything they need to learn, & physically develope themselves & their games for theirs & our benefit.

Giving rebirth to the New DEES of the next MFC Decade...