Now that's sarcasm...

I really don't believe my attempt was 'lame,' but I had a disclaimer at the bottom that said if anyone disagreed with my interpretation they should contribute. I also asked if anyone knew a better gameplan to suit the most undeveloped list in the AFL, and if they could point out its virtues as opposed to the one Bailey is using.

I wager that any gameplan would be undone by lack of run at crucial times, inability to hit simple targets, and poor delivery into the forward fifty.

And finally, if the players didn't do skill work (kicking and hanballing) they would be even worse than they have been. 'Week in, week out' kicking at training is one tradition that won't be leaving us any time soon.

In my opinion your attempt was lame. I'm not qualified to coach and I doubt you are either, if you were you would not bother writing that dribble. However, I do agree that they practice skill work but they are not coached like an under 12 school kid which is what you make them out to be. I still stand by my comment that the game plan (or lack of it) causes more turnovers than basic kicking or handball skill errors. I doubt we will ever agree RPFC and I respect you standing by your opinion. But please tell me, how many games do you give Bailey to turn things around???

I agree with you, rpfc. Like many, I felt really hollow after last Friday's game - but the simple reality remains that, whilst our list has a lot of young, potentially seriously good players coming through, it's currently not an even match for any other AFL club. We have too many slow, relatively unskilled midfielders and we have no elite players/stars. None. That makes it hard to compete week in, week out with AFL clubs. And this is not Bailey's fault ... not yet, at least.

I believe Bailey recognises this and each draft he seems intent on getting quicker, more skilled players. Many are super light in the frame, but he doesn't seem to care - he seems to look at skills and attitude. This is the modern AFL prototype. Muscle is easy to add to a player's frame these days, whereas skills and attitude are not.

And, at least in my opinion, it beggars belief to even suggest that Bailey doesn't know what he's doing. He's impressed those at Essendon and Port - and, during the periods in which he's been at those clubs, they've both made the MFC look like a poorer and more amateur version of the Country Women's Association. He was said to the most impressive of the applicants for the job, and it wasn't exactly a dead beat panel that Bailey had to impress.

Mahoney, Bailey, Wellman, West, Connolly, Prendegast, Stynes - I believe these blokes know what they're doing. Show some backbone and get behind them - particularly given that the alternative is far worse ... and is also bloody gutless.

In my opinion your attempt was lame. I'm not qualified to coach and I doubt you are either, if you were you would not bother writing that dribble. However, I do agree that they practice skill work but they are not coached like an under 12 school kid which is what you make them out to be. I still stand by my comment that the game plan (or lack of it) causes more turnovers than basic kicking or handball skill errors. I doubt we will ever agree RPFC and I respect you standing by your opinion. But please tell me, how many games do you give Bailey to turn things around???

I think you mean 'drivel.'

In terms of games, I think you're asking far too much, far too soon.

If we are talking wins, then 2010 I hope (and believe) that 7-12 wins is a possibility.

If we are talking playing the gameplan properly you should get a copy of the Richmond, WCE, WB, or the first half of the Saints game to see how well this young team can move the ball throught the corridor with daring and precision.

I am not a pessimist but I know we are the worst team in the AFL.

I beleive we can make significant strides in the last 10 games with fixtures against WCE, PA, Rich, Freo, and NM being winnable (if not wholly desired wins), and in the summer to build some bodies, get over some injuries, and bring in some more talent.

THE GAMEPLAN

The gameplan, as I see it, is based around quick movement through the corridor with a set up kick to half back as several mids and HBF's stream forward with sharing (and risky) handballs through the defensive corridor and deliver, preferably, a short kick to approx. 60-70 and then have lead-up forwards meet the ball. In the event of a crowded HF line the mids should continue their run and provide a handball option for the player with the ball 70 out and deliver to the top of the square over the top of the flood.

This gameplan requires a willingness to run a marathon every week if you are a mid, and have good-to-exceptional handballing skills for all players streaming off HB. Forwards need to be able to double-lead, or triple-lead, as they may lead for a kick that might be a lateral handball instead and they must be able to adjust.

I believe this to be similar to how Geelong move the football and requries a demanding skill-set that many are having trouble with, although some are improving remarkably (Moloney's handballing would be an example). Many say that you have to play the gamestyle that suits your players, but why? They should adjust to the coach, if he thinks that is the best chance of a flag, you change your style, work hard and be damn grateful for the opportunity to play for this great club.

That is my read on what the MFC has tried to do throughout the last two years, if anyone disagrees, please discuss. If anyone wants to criticise, please point out what would be a better way.

I reckon you might be onto to something here, it's a pretty good effort at trying to get a handle on whats happening on game day.

There have been a times during this year when I have seen a passage of play through the centre corridor where everything has worked, ie. handballs and kicks on target and ending with a mark in the forward line or a running goal outside fifty (sylvia comes to mind) Those little gems of plays are delight to watch and more importantly the opposition sides were stunned and defenceless against them. But, like you have said, it takes skill and hard running to pull it off.

I am sure i have said this before but just in case I will say it now, DB is known for his skills at developing players and I think this is what we need. But it will take time.

I also am not content or happy with where we are at, but as some others have said we need to be realistic.

Feelings of sadness, anger or even frustration about your perceptions of whats happening on game day are understandable as a Melbourne Fan, its hard to swallow a loss, and it's great to vent every so often, even if its only on a Fan Forum. All I can say is one thing I have learnt as a MFC fan is that you have to take the good years and the bad years because their as inevitable as death and taxes.

P.s Just another point, I don't think that this forum is off limits to criticizers of DB, Brock, Watts or any MFC person, It just that if you are prepared to criticize be prepared for people to vehemently disagree with you. In fact you should expect to have to stoicly defend your position as thats what forums are all about. Bunch of late night keyboard jockeys arguing passionately about the TEAM WE LOVE.

P.s.s Can someone pull my rock back over the top of me when I go back under as I have RSI. :D

I think you mean 'drivel.'

In terms of games, I think you're asking far too much, far too soon.

If we are talking wins, then 2010 I hope (and believe) that 7-12 wins is a possibility.

If we are talking playing the gameplan properly you should get a copy of the Richmond, WCE, WB, or the first half of the Saints game to see how well this young team can move the ball throught the corridor with daring and precision.

I am not a pessimist but I know we are the worst team in the AFL.

I beleive we can make significant strides in the last 10 games with fixtures against WCE, PA, Rich, Freo, and NM being winnable (if not wholly desired wins), and in the summer to build some bodies, get over some injuries, and bring in some more talent.

No, I definately meant 'dribble'........

I'm not necessarily talking about results / wins when I say how many games, I'm talking about how we contest games and gel as a team. My point is that Bailey's game plan is not effective or understood which is making us look a bad team. May be he has a great game plan but he can't express it to the players in a way they understand. May be Bailey is a good skills coach but when it comes to motivating the players and build confidence through a solid game plan he can't do it. A lot of people critisise the playing group and suggest a few priority picks will be our answer to it all, I'm not sure it is.

Coincidently there is an article on the AGE web page today which I think stresses some of my points.

<a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/insipid-dees-have-many-worried-about-game-plan/2009/06/22/1245522784150.html" target="_blank">http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/insip...5522784150.html</a>

Just a comment to Ron Burgundy, I'm not sure what is more gutless, blaming the players or the coach!

With respect to Lloyd and Jones, I doubt anyone would take their views seriously.

As for Gleeson, this passage grates with me on several levels - "The question is whether Melbourne was actually playing to this game plan in recent weeks, or if, because of the shocking skill level displayed, it is fair to even presume the Demons know what their game plan is."

This is blatantly editorialising in his 'news' story, and feels the views of Lloyd and Jones require some oomph in the form of a strange attack on the players ability to understand what Bailey wants them to do.

Poor skills = Unknown Gameplan - Gleeson

Poor skills = Poorly skilled players & poor decisions - rpfc

Bump.

This is for CB, who wanted to know my opinion of the gameplan.

All comments welcome.

I have it on post #97 and a few have quoted it before it and after it.

Have a read through the thread - are we more optimistic, or less? Should we be either?

Nice bump. You definitely did your best work in this thread.

I'm bumping this again.

Yes, to stroke my own ego, but also to point out how quickly things change.

But mainly ego.

well some things dont change

the umpiring is still as bad as ever...

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/93235/default.aspx

"Jeff Gieschen says the mark taken by Adelaide's Jason Porplyzia over Western Bulldog Jarrod Harbrow in round five deserved to be paid, unlike Demon Ricky Petterd's climb over Lion Travis Johnstone."

noone still has a clue wat is allowed

the bump , in the back rule and the rush behind.

but im glad we are finally winning. last year was a tough time for many supporters i dont think alot of us could handle another year of beatings and no wins.

well some things dont change

the umpiring is still as bad as ever...

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/93235/default.aspx

"Jeff Gieschen says the mark taken by Adelaide's Jason Porplyzia over Western Bulldog Jarrod Harbrow in round five deserved to be paid, unlike Demon Ricky Petterd's climb over Lion Travis Johnstone."

noone still has a clue wat is allowed

the bump , in the back rule and the rush behind.

but im glad we are finally winning. last year was a tough time for many supporters i dont think alot of us could handle another year of beatings and no wins.

A good lesson for us all this thread...Things can & Do change Quickly...We the supporters & Members have to trust the people running the ship 99% of the time..Back them.

2008-2009 were really hard tough years for everyone (Some weeks i didn't go because i didn't want to make myself feel Flat all week_it was that bad) It was so good to hear the crowd pumped last saturday night B)

Credit where credit is due.

Rfpc owned this thread.

For the record, I never doubted he was right.

Lol this was rpfc at his best.

He then descended into that 'unreadable compromise' crap.

Bailey just can't bring the individuals together to make them play as a team and I doubt he ever will do.

Is this the quote you wanted to use to remind us of your genious????

<b>THE GAMEPLAN</b>

The gameplan, as I see it, is based around quick movement through the corridor with a set up kick to half back as several mids and HBF's stream forward with sharing (and risky) handballs through the defensive corridor and deliver, preferably, a short kick to approx. 60-70 and then have lead-up forwards meet the ball. In the event of a crowded HF line the mids should continue their run and provide a handball option for the player with the ball 70 out and deliver to the top of the square over the top of the flood.

This gameplan requires a willingness to run a marathon every week if you are a mid, and have good-to-exceptional handballing skills for all players streaming off HB. Forwards need to be able to double-lead, or triple-lead, as they may lead for a kick that might be a lateral handball instead and they must be able to adjust.

I believe this to be similar to how Geelong move the football and requries a demanding skill-set that many are having trouble with, although some are improving remarkably (Moloney's handballing would be an example). Many say that you have to play the gamestyle that suits your players, but why? They should adjust to the coach, if he thinks that is the best chance of a flag, you change your style, work hard and be damn grateful for the opportunity to play for this great club.

That is my read on what the MFC has tried to do throughout the last two years, if anyone disagrees, please discuss. If anyone wants to criticise, please point out what would be a better way.

Kudos rpfc.

In addition, sometimes when the mids are transitioning play, the forwards will sometimes lead up and peel off towards the boundary and turn their opponents and head towards the goalsquare whilst the "air conveyance" is in motion to hit them thanks to the mids kicking into space to run onto. They can vary their play which makes it hard to read. Risky but most rewarding. Geelong are living proof of this.

I reckon you might be onto to something here, it's a pretty good effort at trying to get a handle on whats happening on game day.

Of course he was.

Is this the quote you wanted to use to remind us of your genious????

Oops. Genius. He only doubted Bailey. That's not to say rpfc thought Bailey wasn't capable.

Is this the quote you wanted to use to remind us of your genious????

Oh the irony...

Is this the quote you wanted to use to remind us of your genious????

LOL owned

Is this the quote you wanted to use to remind us of your genious????

That wasn't my quote, genie-ess.

It was from G'brough Demon. It is just hard to see due to the format change that Land has gone through in the interim.

And I would like to think that I have bumped these threads not to point out I was right, but to point out how many of you were wrong.

If no-one ever tells you 'you're wrong' how do you ever change and evolve?

But, again, my ego loves this crap.

It is just hard to see due to the format change that Land has gone through in the interim.

FTFY :-)

(Can't be bothered fixing the others though. Not sure why the forum software broke all the old quotes when we migrated versions. Annoying.)

FTFY :-)

(Can't be bothered fixing the others though. Not sure why the forum software broke all the old quotes when we migrated versions. Annoying.)

Thanks, Nasher.

And I wouldn't worry about it. I still got my, incredibly self involved, point across.

Get to the game and watch 22 blokes run around playing the way they have been told to play for two years.

But with confidence and application.

And better handballing ability...

Thanks, Nasher.

And I wouldn't worry about it. I still got my, incredibly self involved, point across.

Get to the game and watch 22 blokes run around playing the way they have been told to play for two years.

But with confidence and application.

And better handballing ability...

How slick is Scullgove with the handballing ...

Poetry in motion.

In keeping with the thread title....I'm not sick of this re-defined application among our playing group.

I'm bumping this again.

Yes, to stroke my own ego, but also to point out how quickly things change.

But mainly ego.

Fair bump rpfc - the Geelong comparison you made is interesting in the light of a couple of articles in last weekends papers.

5 more wins & that poor bugger gets to step off the train from Greensborough & drop his tweeds. That'll be a longer walk than any of Michael Long's.

How do you all feel now Haaaa