There's also the QB play where he got the ball on HB, then spun out of a tackle, then delivered the ball with a precision kick to a lead.

His mistakes so far can be put down to fitness and experience. Two things that will grow as Watts grows.

Jarka, I've seen you evade my question and that's to be expected. I'll reword it. You have said that Watts is less advanced than lots (or most ,or to be fair, all) of other 1st picks. I asked you to give me a metric you were measuring him with (or against). I'll even give you a free hint - comparing him to a player is a proxy for comparing him to a standard, quality or variable.

As for Freak being mo64's son , well that the funniest thing I've read in years. LMFAO!

Sorry Jarka, I've just read the first page again, and realised that you have answered this. With absolutely nothing. Here's a hint - comment when you know and quesiton when you need to learn something. Right now you've got those backwards.

  timD said:

Jarka, I've seen you evade my question and that's to be expected. I'll reword it. You have said that Watts is less advanced than lots (or most ,or to be fair, all) of other 1st picks. I asked you to give me a metric you were measuring him with (or against). I'll even give you a free hint - comparing him to a player is a proxy for comparing him to a standard, quality or variable.

As for Freak being mo64's son , well that the funniest thing I've read in years. LMFAO!

Sorry Jarka, I've just read the first page again, and realised that you have answered this. With absolutely nothing. Here's a hint - comment when you know and quesiton when you need to learn something. Right now you've got those backwards.

Don't make things up to suit your argument, you've done this before and it's boring. As I've said to you before I'm more than happy to discuss footy topics with you but I'm not going to bother if you're going to be pathetic again.

Or perhaps you don't want to talk footy? Perhaps you want me to unblock your private messages so you can send me love letters again? Sadly timmy I don't sway that way. Alas, you'll just have to get your rocks off some other way.

Bad luck kiddo, next time read my posts properly before trying to score points again.

All right all you posters I will keep this simple, no attacking anyone or what they said or thought they said.

Last night was dismal to say the least, BUT did last night open the curtain if only a little bit on a future

demon side.

Let me suggest a few thoughts from the game.

1. Does PJ play better when he is the only ruckman in the side, like STYNES was. Now I am not suggesting

he is anywhere close to jimbo in ability, but to me he had more influence on the game than previous games.

2. In the last qtr our half forward line was Watts and Jurrah. And here people IT WORKED [sort of].

3. Martin is a forward he gave us something we lacked there, he contested, marked and didnt take [censored] from

anybody, used his weight.

4. So is our future forward line.........Martin........ ?[draft].........Wonaemirri

Watts.............Jurrah

By the way when you finish having a go at me[big deal] look at what I suggested about last night.

Gee Watts was beaten by Fletcher[302 games, all Aust, club team of century full back] against Watts [2 games]

but what I hear has nearly got his car license.

Have a look at the game best in the paper, Fletcher, Lucas, Welsh, McVeigh and Prismall, arnt they an inexpericenced

lot. The bombers team of the future!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way games played by each teams 22. Bumbers 2092 DEES 1574

A little hint if you expect to win this years flag with that expericence level start, taking you ASPROS now.

Anybody remember how Brisbane's first round draft pick of 2006 Matthew Leuenberger went in his second game under coach Leigh Matthews?

  Hannabal said:

I'm quite content with his progress.

I thought 2 goals was about par.. Very happy with that. And that he showed he has the mechanics to grow into a dependable player. Something we're bereft of.

  titan_uranus said:

I wonder if Watts will be rested for the trip to Brisbane next week?

Bailey's already suggested he won't be coming. I would imagine he might come back in later in the year for a couple. Worked for Garland. Personally I hope he plays no more than 9, as I like watching the rising star. It's a fun sideshow... though I do know it is largely meaningless.

  Jaded said:

Heard Bailey on SEN this morning talk about Watts.... (edit) It took Frawley, who isn't as big as Watts, 3 years to really adapt. He looked hopeless at the start of his career.

That's a good post and very pertinent comparison. Score 1 to Jaded...

  Its Miller time said:

Have people seen the replay of Watts taking his eyes off the ball when he marked and kicked his first goal ?

  Freak said:

im sorry but all good markers of the footy look at the ball when marking it

Yes, but I'd suggest you take a look at about a dozen other, tougher, more unlikely marks he has taken in footage online. If you want to be sure he can take a good mark using his eyes, then look there as I'm sure you both have. I would suggest this was an abberration.

  Freak said:

anyway, i know longer respect the draft camp results. Watts over 20metres is meant to be quicker than Aaron Davey and Lovett for Gods sake. But he simply looks average speed. And he doesnt look 196cm either. Franklin looks 196cm, Watts looks about 192cm. I think he will be good but yeh slightly disappointed that he hasnt shown his speed. Speed is something that is unaffected by your experience. If you're fast you look it from day 1.

I actually am leaning towards Freak's assessment here, and have thought this for a while. We keep seeing draft camp results and then we see the application of those skills and are let down. I also reckon guys lose pace the older they get... even if only by a fraction, largely to do with gaining so much weight. Perhaps they lose agility moreso...

Ultimately, if you look closely at his game I'd prefer to see a guy who uses what he has intelligently than runs quickly in one direction. The exception to this is midfielders and rebounding defenders who DO need a yard or two of pace on their opponents to be useful. Something tells me Jack will probably NEVER be given room to run really fast in a straight line, unless leading, and even then he'll be impeded a lot as he takes off and when he marks the ball.

I know we're looking like a broken record here, but it wasn't Hird's pace that made him great. I don't reckon there's ANYTHING to be concerned about with Jack, but I share Freak's sentiment about draft camp results. And I'm likewise aware that it was after his results were released that he firmly and immediately jumped into 1st place in the draft.

Did anyone hear Dermie on SEn last night he implied or more or less said that Melbourne were using Watts as a marketing tool because he wasn't ready for AFL. I can't remember if it was before or after his second goal. May have been at half time.

I thought Watt's game was much better this time and playing with the big boys is teaching him far more than continuously playing with the VFL. I thought his pass from midfield was great and showed he has football smarts. His handball over his head was equally good. I am very happy the way the club is managing him especially Bailey and if they do only intend to play him for another three games I am equally happy for him to do that because it will give him a chance to return to VFL, put into practice his AFL experiences and also provide him with an understanding of what is required to make the AFL. You can be a star in VFL but not worth a mention in AFL ie Nick Sautner

  Whispering_Jack said:

Anybody remember how Brisbane's first round draft pick of 2006 Matthew Leuenberger went in his second game under coach Leigh Matthews?

5 disposals - no goals

And he was a year older.

Out of interest, Nick Riewoldt averaged 9 possessions in his first 6 games and kicked 2 goals.

  longsuffering said:

Did anyone hear Dermie on SEn last night he implied or more or less said that Melbourne were using Watts as a marketing tool because he wasn't ready for AFL. I can't remember if it was before or after his second goal. May have been at half time.

No doubt that it's a significant part of it. Watts' Casey form was pretty good, but there's no coincidence in the fact that Watts has played 2 games this year, which are our two biggest-stage matches for the year. I am expecting him to be rested this week instead of going to Brisbane, and we mightn't see him for a few weeks.

  Quote

1. Does PJ play better when he is the only ruckman in the side, like STYNES was. Now I am not suggesting

he is anywhere close to jimbo in ability, but to me he had more influence on the game than previous games.

He might play better but it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. He's not good enough to play #1 ruck, let alone sole ruckman. It makes sense that he'll play better if he's playing sole ruck because he'll be in the play more than if he's sharing the duties.

  titan_uranus said:

There's also the QB play where he got the ball on HB, then spun out of a tackle, then delivered the ball with a precision kick to a lead.

I thought it was nice, but I think we're clutching at straws if we think we could mount an argument for why he went at number 1 on things like that.

Fwiw, my thoughts on Watts haven't changed from the time we drafted him.

  longsuffering said:

Did anyone hear Dermie on SEn last night he implied or more or less said that Melbourne were using Watts as a marketing tool because he wasn't ready for AFL.

Jamie Bennell and Neville Jetta weren't ready for AFL in round 1 but because they were pick 35 and 51, no story was written about how they weren't ready.

I'm thinking commentators are using the fact that Jack Watts was pick one to fill out stories.

He's had a taste in big games and he'll build from that. Plenty of players playing b4 their time.

No matter how you choose to interpret the comment, many will construe it as criticism; and with added weight since it came from a legend of the game like Matthews. (No matter what you think of him, and I also remember Giles and Smith. I also wish Melbourne had a player as hard and good as Lethal.)

Turn it into a positive: stress that it can only be good for Watts.

Dean Bailey: "Come on, Jack, prove him wrong."

With any luck it will become an apocryphal comment. It would be fantastic if, in around ten years, hopefully sooner, Seven replays the comment as Watts holds up the premiership cup.

  Hannabal said:

5 disposals - no goals

And he was a year older.

Out of interest, Nick Riewoldt averaged 9 possessions in his first 6 games and kicked 2 goals.

Thanks for the research on Leuenberger. Five kicks for a ruckman in his second game and he was aged 19! I suspose he did nothing to show Lethal why he went early first round the year before. Did Lethal drop him the following week.

As for Riewoldt, that's extraordinary. I'm surprised the Saints didn't delist him at the end of his first season.

  Godemons said:

With any luck it will become an apocryphal comment. It would be fantastic if, in around ten years, hopefully sooner, Seven replays the comment as Watts holds up the premiership cup.

Hopefully they don't, because they'd probably me misrepresenting Matthews comment.

I haven't seen the coverage but from what I've read it was based on either two games or five minutes of his second game, and was talking about past performance not future performance.

  Whispering_Jack said:

Thanks for the research on Leuenberger. Five kicks for a ruckman in his second game and he was aged 19! I suspose he did nothing to show Lethal why he went early first round the year before. Did Lethal drop him the following week.

As for Riewoldt, that's extraordinary. I'm surprised the Saints didn't delist him at the end of his first season.

Sorry, I looked at the wrong year.

Leuenberger had 8 possessions plus 1 goal in his second game.

For interest sake he had 3 possessions in his 1st, 7 in his third, 5 in his fourth and 6 in his fifth. No goals from any of those.

Also similar raw talls picked early: Lachy Hansen had a sequence of 6, 5, 7 in his first 3 games - pick 3 2006

Scott Gumbleton had a debut to forget with 5 possessions - pick 2 2006 (games 2 and 3 were good)

And the great Wayne Carey also debuted at 18. His sequence 7, 6, 7 - no goals from his first 3 games.

And as already mentioned: Brendan Fevola had 1 possession in his first and 1 possession in his second for a grand tally of 2 posssessions from his first two games.. He too debuted at 18.

Note: Watts is almost a year younger than a couple of these other 18 year olds

*Perspective*

Now Robert Shaw (Watts' school coach) is getting involved in the debate, and suddenly every news channel is talking about the merits of Watts and whether or not he should be playing at the highest level.

Has there ever been a more ridiculous media scrutiny placed on an 18 year old?

It's great to get exposure, and sure it's a slow week with only 3 games being played, but FFS this level of attention and pressure is so unnecessary.

What will Watts learn at VFL level that he can't learn at AFL level? If, according to some in the media, we shouldn't play him until he is physically ready, we might as well place him in a plastic bubble, feed him through a tube and unleash him for his third game in 2011.

At the end of the day you cannot protect him from the physicality of the game, and as long as he is mentally ready, that's all that matters.

Every minute he spends on that ground, is worth ten games of VFL experience.

No doubt the idiots will come knocking when we don't take him to Brisbane next week, suggesting that the club has handled him poorly to begin with

Bring on 2010!

  Jaded said:

Has there ever been a more ridiculous media scrutiny placed on an 18 year old?

It's great to get exposure, and sure it's a slow week with only 3 games being played, but FFS this level of attention and pressure is so unnecessary.

You can't blame the media. The club has paraded him in our 2 biggest games (media wise) of the season, and if he played 2 blinders, the club would have lapped up the media attention. And the kid seems to handle the media exposure pretty well.

I'm unconcerned about Watts' 2 games to date.

I'm more concerend about Hannabal's 2008 lovechild, Cale Morton. I'm struggling to see any signs of him being an elite midfielder. In his 25 odd games, I've yet to see him have any influence on a game, other than racking up possessions.

  J-Riv said:

The actual comment was

"Ive been watching Watts closely for five min and seen nothing to suggest why he would be number one pick"

Well thanks for making your assessment after five min Leigh but I'm sure all the recruiting officers from every club that were watching him for the hole year may have seen a little bit more.

Brilliant!

  Jaded said:

Now Robert Shaw (Watts' school coach) is getting involved in the debate, and suddenly every news channel is talking about the merits of Watts and whether or not he should be playing at the highest level.

Has there ever been a more ridiculous media scrutiny placed on an 18 year old?

It's great to get exposure, and sure it's a slow week with only 3 games being played, but FFS this level of attention and pressure is so unnecessary.

Agree 100%, but i cant help but feel that the MFC may have done this to themselfs. There was a ridiculas amount of build up to the QB game.

No player deserves to be scrutinized so much in their first game, let alone an 18 year old VCE student.

I just hope Watts has a solid head on him and this doesnt effect him mentally.

On the other note, I was under the impression that Watts was being managed between, MFC his paretns AND Robert Shaw, whether he is ready to play. That being said, why then did he give the OK, if he thought he wasnt ready!??

  mo64 said:

I'm more concerend about Hannabal's 2008 lovechild, Cale Morton. I'm struggling to see any signs of him being an elite midfielder. In his 25 odd games, I've yet to see him have any influence on a game, other than racking up possessions.

He's played 32 yet if he was on Geelong's list he would have played less than 10 games, but you're not happy with what you've seen other than an ability to "rack up possessions" ?

Give yourself an uppercut, Mo.

Firstly, with regard to the media talk. It's all just carp or filling air time as far as I am concerned, just look forward to next week. I'm pretty sure Lance Franklins first few games were quiet and questionable from memory. I'm comfortable with where Jack is at with his development being an 18 year old kid. As Hannabal stated a little 'perspective' people. I think the presence of Jurrah and perhaps the no.1 pick will take a bit of focus of Jack in a way - for the future.

I actually think that he's shown quite abit in his first two games, and this comes from someone who honestly thought he'd do absoluetly nothing this year. He's demonstrated his ability to lose his man and find space in a crowded and dysfunctional forward line, he's also shown a glimpse of his goal kicking ability. Even though he has struggled with the pace of the game, as all most rookie do, at various times he's also shown his quick hands and willingness to take body contact, something that did concern me about him.

I rate myself as probably one of the very few who he doesn't view him with rose coloured glasses on because I wasn't convinced that we did make the right choice. However even to me he's shown enough to already convince me. FFS he's still at school and he was deliberately held back by the club for 6 months, further slowing his development but I know it was the right decision and imagine what he'll do with a mature body and confidence to attack the footy.

Watts and Jurrah are going to terrorize opposition defenders for years because of their ability in the air and the agility on the ground. Now we just have to get the midfield right to supply these guys.

  Hannabal said:

He's played 32 yet if he was on Geelong's list he would have played less than 10 games, but you're not happy with what you've seen other than an ability to "rack up possessions" ?

Give yourself an uppercut, Mo.

My definition of an elite midfielder is someone who makes the players around him better. The last elite midfielder to enter the AFL was Joel Selwood, and he didn't seem to have any problems commanding a place in a strong Geelong midfield.

I was critical of Morton's decision making last year, but being a bottom aged draftee, I was prepared to cut him some slack. This season, I'm struggling to see any improvement in that area, and now he seems to be struggling in contested situations.

I'm not expecting him to be a consistantly dominant player from day 1, like Judd and Selwood, but I wouldn't mind seeing glimpses of it.

  Jarka said:

Don't make things up to suit your argument, you've done this before and it's boring. As I've said to you before I'm more than happy to discuss footy topics with you but I'm not going to bother if you're going to be pathetic again.

Or perhaps you don't want to talk footy? Perhaps you want me to unblock your private messages so you can send me love letters again? Sadly timmy I don't sway that way. Alas, you'll just have to get your rocks off some other way.

Bad luck kiddo, next time read my posts properly before trying to score points again.

Jarka, you said Watts was behind a whole bunch of recent number 1 picks and I asked you to substantiate it and provide a metric that you used. You've avoided answering the question. The only logical undertstanding of that is that you do not know the answer. Answer the question. If you cannot, then do everyone a favour and shut up.

As for wanting to PM me, you'd remember that I suggested that we solve our last dispute privately. You refused to actually discuss anything with a semblance of logic. And to let you know, you are not blocked and I have no memory of blocking you or taking the block off.If you want to finish this discussion without occupying others, then PM me - if not, I'll happily continue to discuss this publically. If you prefer neither option, stop posting altogether.

  timD said:

Jarka, you said Watts was behind a whole bunch of recent number 1 picks and I asked you to substantiate it and provide a metric that you used. You've avoided answering the question. The only logical undertstanding of that is that you do not know the answer. Answer the question. If you cannot, then do everyone a favour and shut up.

As for wanting to PM me, you'd remember that I suggested that we solve our last dispute privately. You refused to actually discuss anything with a semblance of logic. And to let you know, you are not blocked and I have no memory of blocking you or taking the block off.If you want to finish this discussion without occupying others, then PM me - if not, I'll happily continue to discuss this publically. If you prefer neither option, stop posting altogether.

Oh, almost forgot, post no.35 in the thread, as I've already said I've already responded to you, FFS how many times do I have to say it,

  Jarka said:

Let's use Kruezer as an example, the most recent number 1 pick, also can play as a kp. Now compare when they both started their respective pre seasons. By the time round 1 came for Kruezer he pretty much had a full pre season under his belt and by this stage he had played every game. I won't even bother making the comparisons like Gibbs and Cooney, they're so obvious I can't believe that anyone is seeking an explanation.

A decision was made between the club, Jack's parents and his school to delay his pre season by about 6 months so yes, of course he's behind other recent number 1 picks and I believe that the right decision was made. I'm also amazed that you disagree with this, the kid is still at school and I'm bewildered that cretins expect him to already be at his best. Give him a chance to get a couple of pre seasons under his belt before execting the world of him

Next time read the thread before having to make the rest of us to endure your lunacy and making an absolute fool of yourself, there's your response you idiot