Don't get me wrong, we were well beaten today and this wouldn't have made a difference, but it is still frustrating to watch.

What really annoys me is inconsistancies in the umpiring. 1st quarter, Whelan tackeled, spun gets the handball away. Pinged for holding the ball, costs us a goal at a critical time in the match. Then later on 11 Minutes to go in the 4th, Franklin tackled, spun, gets the handball away. Nothing even though, to me anyway, they looked exactly the same, except the umpire isn't going to get a roar and it isn't going to effect the match. Also 5 minutes later, Bateman being tackled when Whelan is hit in the nose. Bateman drops the ball. When I used to play, if u were being tackled and dropped/spilt the ball it was dropping the ball, not to mention if someone breaks their nose (if in fact he has), i guess there may have been high contact? It just makes AFL hard to watch when the umpires can't get the simple decisions correct and they over umpire at the critical stages of the game when things are in the balance and it seems to put them out of balance (not necessarily today but it happens a lot. This making the game about themselves and not about the players ruins it. The free kick count should reflect which team is going harder at the ball, not all these stupid little technicalities which are ruining the game, I mean you see it all the time when the whistle goes and the players look around to see who and or what the free kick is for as they are unsure?!

On a lighter note, well done to the boys for fighting back today, I think a win is not far away if the attitude continues well, hopefully we will embarrass Collingwood in a couple of weeks

Don't get me wrong, we were well beaten today and this wouldn't have made a difference, but it is still frustrating to watch.

What really annoys me is inconsistancies in the umpiring. 1st quarter, Whelan tackeled, spun gets the handball away. Pinged for holding the ball, costs us a goal at a critical time in the match. Then later on 11 Minutes to go in the 4th, Franklin tackled, spun, gets the handball away. Nothing even though, to me anyway, they looked exactly the same, except the umpire isn't going to get a roar and it isn't going to effect the match. Also 5 minutes later, Bateman being tackled when Whelan is hit in the nose. Bateman drops the ball. When I used to play, if u were being tackled and dropped the ball it was dropping the ball, not to mention if someone breaks their nose (if in fact he has), i guess there may have been high contact? It just makes AFL hard to watch when the umpires can't get the simple decisions correct and they over umpire at the critical stages of the game when things are in the balance and it seems to put them out of balance (not necessarily today but it happens a lot. This making the game about themselves and not about the players ruins it. The free kick count should reflect which team is going harder at the ball, not all these stupid little technicalities which are ruining the game, I mean you see it all the time when the whistle goes and the players look around to see who and or what the free kick is for as they are unsure?!

On a lighter note, well done to the boys for fighting back today, I think a win is not far away if the attitude continues well, hopefully we will embarrass Collingwood in a couple of weeks

Totally agree Dusty. I was screaming out about this incident for quite some time in the Members Reserve. I came home and have watched the full replay. Several of the Hawks early goals were umpire assists in my opinion. Lewis got a free in the centre early on when Moloney tackled him. The umpire said that he never took possession of the ball... I think it should have been a ball up. Buddy and Franklin pushed Melbourne players out when the ball wasn't anywhere near the marking contest... used to be in the back. Johnson was penalised for pushing over a small at the boundary throw in when it was obvious that this bloke was blocking his run at the ruck contest. Morton got a blatant push in the back in their forward line that went un-noticed... another goal assist IMO. Mitchell, Franklin, Williams etc get far more time to dispose of the ball than Whelan or Jones... etc...etc.

Agree completely guys. My voice is just about done after all that shouting. And how about those Hawks supporters. Precious little Buddy. Can't go near him without the crowd going up, winging for a free. I remember vividly, at one point Buddy pushed one of our blokes square in the back and absolutely nothing. It'd be great to be a galmour side wouldn't it?

I agree, however I wouldn't have wanted to be an umpire yesterday. GEEZ that game moved quickly. By hand particularly.

Totally agree with those Dusty.

The inconsistency of the hands in the back rule is something that really pisses me off. To not pay the one against Roughead early in the match that resulted in a goal- IMO not neccesarily hands in the back, but with the 'two actions' interpretation, was definitely there- then later to penalise Whelan for the exact same action was disgraceful. Absolute shitful. Had a go at my Hawk friend after the Roughead one when she said it wasn't there. Needless to say, she didn't have a leg to stand on after the one against Whelan was paid.

Remember the noise that was made after the last Grand about Hawks bringing the player to the ground after getting rid of the ball. We were told that a 50 would be paid down ground.... Then there is the rule about pushing a player to the ground after he takes a mark. How many times did you see a Demon player pushed in the back by his direct opponent and bought to ground after taking a mark? Any penalty yesterday? No, you guessed right!

Totally agree Dusty. I was screaming out about this incident for quite some time in the Members Reserve. I came home and have watched the full replay. Several of the Hawks early goals were umpire assists in my opinion. Lewis got a free in the centre early on when Moloney tackled him. The umpire said that he never took possession of the ball... I think it should have been a ball up. Buddy and Franklin pushed Melbourne players out when the ball wasn't anywhere near the marking contest... used to be in the back. Johnson was penalised for pushing over a small at the boundary throw in when it was obvious that this bloke was blocking his run at the ruck contest. Morton got a blatant push in the back in their forward line that went un-noticed... another goal assist IMO. Mitchell, Franklin, Williams etc get far more time to dispose of the ball than Whelan or Jones... etc...etc.

The Johnson decision was disgusting and showed a total lack of understanding of the game.

Umpires are going to make mistakes.

Not understanding that sheparding a ruckman from getting to the contest is aganist the rules is totally unacceptable.

I would love to hear Gieshen defend this. Tool

thought that we were harshly treated yesterday from an inconsistency perspective!!

1. the dragging down of a player after taking a mark. i understood that if a player was not involved in teh marking contest and he dragged the player to ground, ti was 50 metres. would appear to be incorrect.

2. the hands in the back rule. saw it a couple of times around the ground where people got away with it but then pure jamie bennell is pinged for it, even though he used his forearm

3. the walking over the centre circle line, then turning your back to the opposition player. sure that this is not what the centre circles were designed for.

4. holding the ball. the old chestnut that creates plenty of unceertainty. if you get spun once is it holding the ball? if you drop the ball - is it holding the ball? if you pin one arm - is it holding the ball?

yes, i know it is a hard job but all as supporters we are looking for is consistency and not for them to be consistently inconsistent!!!

My concern is the incorrect disposal that seems to go unnoticed, Mitchell and Co everytime they couldn't break a tackle just dropped the footy, Jones and Mclean need to look at how they do this. They other issue I'm having is the centre bounce ruck contest, not only yesterday but for the past season I've noticed ruckman that can't jump just walk across that line and take the jumping ruckmans legs out, this is dangerous and someone will land on their head and have spinal damage.

im not sure if we got a holding the ball decision in our favour yesterday and i think there should have been at least 4.

still wouldn't have won the game though.

usually umpiring is a big gripe of mine, but ive watched 3 matches this weekend, and it has been the best umpiring i have seen for a long time (read 5-10 years at least). the key has been 'put the whistles away' its the freekicks that they shouldn't have paid that are normally the problem.

This has just confirmed my suspicion that all umpires should be shot at birth

IMHO ... we can learn plenty from yesterdays game. Hawthorn are a very "smart" very well drilled side that push ever rule to the max.

I personally put this down to their coaching staff and something we must learn moving forward.

I hope our players sit down and watch and learn from this game. If you cant beat them ... join them.

I think the last 2 weeks have been the best umpiring in ages, yes we are a bit upset at the free's we did not get, but a hlaf time free count of 10-5 was great, that would usually be 20-25, I'd rather them pay less than pay more.

The umpiring yesterday was the worst I've seen in the past couple of years (even though I agree that it's better that they're putting the whistle away somewhat). Completely inconsistent with the holding the ball decision, and plenty of blatant push in the backs weren't paid either.

It was in stark contrast to the great umpiring I saw the previous night at the Richmond-Essendon match.

IMHO ... we can learn plenty from yesterdays game. Hawthorn are a very "smart" very well drilled side that push ever rule to the max.

I personally put this down to their coaching staff and something we must learn moving forward.

I hope our players sit down and watch and learn from this game. If you cant beat them ... join them.

Exactly. I was irritated all game at the way the hawks would creep up on the mark or not move back when the umpire shouted at them. They got away with it so they did it over and over again. it may be a small thing but it does make a difference. And that is exactly what we should be doing.

The umpires were particularly weak. Worst i've seen in our games this year. I counted 5 goals coming from obviously poor umpiring. And when you add our unbelievable catastrophes by robbo and the miller handball to robbo, we weren't really that far off.

Exactly. I was irritated all game at the way the hawks would creep up on the mark or not move back when the umpire shouted at them. They got away with it so they did it over and over again. it may be a small thing but it does make a difference. And that is exactly what we should be doing.

The umpires were particularly weak. Worst i've seen in our games this year. I counted 5 goals coming from obviously poor umpiring. And when you add our unbelievable catastrophes by robbo and the miller handball to robbo, we weren't really that far off.

Lets not start on the push in the back rule as well! Thats got nothing to do with coaching, only umpires that fail to have the guts to call each player and each contest consistantly.

who was umpire 27?

his contribution towards the game was nothing shot of a disgrace!!

who was umpire 27?

his contribution towards the game was nothing shot of a disgrace!!

I believe that was Umpire Avon. I too found Mr Avon to be somewhat inconsistent/incorrect in his decision-making.

"What annoys me and it happens almost every game".....Quite Simple really. We lose to often. Thats it. QED.

A bit off topic here... but...

I guess bad umpiring will always be a part of any sport really, however I think if we want the standard to improve, people really need to stop criticising them because all it does is shed a negative light on umpires as a group and makes it more and more unappealing for people to choose as a potential career.

I have no doubt that there are some people who would make great umpires but don't see any benefits in choosing it as a career because they know its not worth the scrutiny they come under week in - week out hence the AFL doesn't really doesn't have much to work with. Maybe I'm wrong here...

but a guy who went to my school is rising steadily in the ranks of the EFL as an umpire and doing the odd VFL match right now and he is a makes the worst decisions from the many games I've seen him in. Sure its only one scenario but from what I hear, the next generation of umpires aren't going to be much chop...

Would you ever want to become an umpire?

(sorry if I've offended anyone who is an umpire lol)

Umpries are muppets.

What the hell was Robbo's free for in the first quarter? What's with Franklin/Roughead shoving someone in the back in a marking contest and nothing is paid, 2 minutes later Bennell used his body to get someone out of the way and it was given...BAH!

I've thought that we have had a decent run with the umpire this season compared to the last couple, but yesterday was a deplorable effort from the maggots.

When you go down a few goals early to the reigning premiers on the back of umpires swallowing their whistles on clear pushing in the back offences that lead to Hawk goals, it is almost as frustrating as watching your own team squandering opportunities in front of goals at the other end.

And also on that Whelan decision, the umpire clearly could not see if he had got a handball away, but i said to my mate next to me as it happened, that the umpire was already in the crouched position with a hard-on, just waiting for his big moment to give away that holding the ball decision, even before Matty got a disposal away.

There is no such rule as dropping the ball. If the ball is spilt in a tackle with no prior opportunity, its play on. If you did have prior opportunity, its holding the ball.

A bit off topic here... but...

I guess bad umpiring will always be a part of any sport really, however I think if we want the standard to improve, people really need to stop criticising them because all it does is shed a negative light on umpires as a group and makes it more and more unappealing for people to choose as a potential career.

I have no doubt that there are some people who would make great umpires but don't see any benefits in choosing it as a career because they know its not worth the scrutiny they come under week in - week out hence the AFL doesn't really doesn't have much to work with. Maybe I'm wrong here...

but a guy who went to my school is rising steadily in the ranks of the EFL as an umpire and doing the odd VFL match right now and he is a makes the worst decisions from the many games I've seen him in. Sure its only one scenario but from what I hear, the next generation of umpires aren't going to be much chop...

Would you ever want to become an umpire?

(sorry if I've offended anyone who is an umpire lol)

I have to agree. Umpiring this game is extremely difficult. I can't think of any other sport where the umpire has so much to do. It's just inherent in our game. Lots of rules means lots of decisions.

I've heard the proposal that umpires should be a full-time role. I agree. I think if umpires were full-time umpires, they would be more able to focus on learning and applying the rules, and there might be more of an incentive to become an umpire.

There is no such rule as dropping the ball. If the ball is spilt in a tackle with no prior opportunity, its play on. If you did have prior opportunity, its holding the ball.

This is law 15.2.3 ( b )

Where the field Umpire is satisfied that a Player in possession of the football has not had a prior opportunity to dispose of the football, the field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against that Player if,

upon being Correctly Tackled, the Player does not Correctly Dispose or attempt to Correctly Dispose of the football after being given a reasonable opportunity to do so.

So regardless of whether or not a player has had prior opportunity, if they don't correctly dispose of the ball when being tackled, it's a free kick.

WTF? There is no such rule as dropping the ball. If the ball is spilt in a tackle with no prior opportunity, its play on. If you did have prior opportunity, its holding the ball.

Titan u beat me to it. Thanks