Now I've heard it all.

So Freak, if Ablett doesn't make your top 3 most skillful players in the AFL, where DO you rate Ablett?

Now I've heard it all.

So Freak, if Ablett doesn't make your top 3 most skillful players in the AFL, where do you rate Ablett?

Clearly Ablett is only a good player because his body shape enables him to avoid tackles...

That's even funnier the second time around

All have done things Ablett simply cant do. The reason Ablett is the 2nd best player in the comp (behind franklin..best KP is always better than the best midfielder) is because he has a greater work rate, a stronger body, and a better team around him.

Two things:

1- Ablett's skills are amazing. Not sure how the hell you could argue otherwise.

2- Franklin is not the best player in the competition, and on current form, would struggle to make it into the top 20.

On a slightly separate note, Rioli is a great footballer with great skills, and could well be the best player of his draft. However, Morton too has the potential to be a superstar, and his size (height, not weight), makes him a truly unique midfield/forward proposition (think Pavlich).

Besides, no recruiter would take a punt on a small forward with a top 5 pick. While Rioli will end up as a midfielder, he was recruited as a skillful goal sneak. We were never going to take him with pick 4, so the comparison is silly.

I'd take Rioli in a heart beat (over Morton). And Kreuzer & Cotchin, but they weren't available.

In all honesty and with respect to Cale and our recruiters.... in a heartbeat.

That doesn't mean that our recruiters made a mistake, you can only act on the best info you have before you at the time. Cale will be a very good player. Rioli will be an out and out star. He and selwood are ain front of the leagues other young players by a fair stretch.

Franklin not in the top 20 players in the comp? haha, NOW I'VE HEARD IT ALL. he is still equal 1st in the coleman medal for Gods sake.

I'm not saying Ablett is bad, he is still the best midfielder in the comp but Steve Johnson has better awareness, and is a more accurate snap of the footy than Ablett in my opinion.

Ablett has never pulled off a handball like that.And abletts kicking action is biomechanically flawed. His head is too far over the footy, sacrificing distance on his kicks.

I would show you Daniel motlops highlights too but that would just make it unfair on you guys.

In all honesty and with respect to Cale and our recruiters.... in a heartbeat.

That doesn't mean that our recruiters made a mistake, you can only act on the best info you have before you at the time. Cale will be a very good player. Rioli will be an out and out star. He and selwood are ain front of the leagues other young players by a fair stretch.

even though cale is 14th for the league in disposals? (6 disposals of the top 10...)

I'm not sure the difference is as big as you think.

....

Its posts like the ones you have in this thread that really show you up for the cardboard critic you are.

You have to be Yze Magic's dud brother but without the overt optimism and the sly wit.

Cyril has really benefited from coming into a side that was successful right off the bat, as Hawthorn were in 2008. Morton would be 10x the player he is now had we been a finals side in 08, imo.

even though cale is 14th for the league in disposals? (6 disposals of the top 10...)

I'm not sure the difference is as big as you think.

I think the difference is that they are different. Cale will probably always get more of the footy than Rioli. Cale may one day be in the elite class. Rioli could end up one of the stars of the modern era. He is an extremely dangerous player, his motor however is not as big as Cale's. If Rioli develop's the motor to play in the midfield he will destroy sides on a weekly basis.

Cale is a bit stiff in this thread to be compared to the best young talent to be unearthed in a fair while IMO.

I find that Rioli's current output has been over rated. He is a young kid who does some very good things within games, but has yet to actually start putting together a full game. His output is just OK, probably due to his poor endurance.

Morton is actually able to put performances onto the park which is remarkable at his age.

Freak, don't focus entirely on highlights tapes. It shows your arguments to be very shallow.

I think the difference is that they are different. Cale will probably always get more of the footy than Rioli. Cale may one day be in the elite class. Rioli could end up one of the stars of the modern era. He is an extremely dangerous player, his motor however is not as big as Cale's. If Rioli develop's the motor to play in the midfield he will destroy sides on a weekly basis.

Cale is a bit stiff in this thread to be compared to the best young talent to be unearthed in a fair while IMO.

perhaps. but the difference is cale is doing it on his own in a team that has won 5 games since he has been there...

im not saying rioli isnt great or destined to be a star, but i just wonder if we'll still be having this debate in 3-4 years because they are such different players.

sort of like comparing ablett senior and junior.

Steve Johnson is a very very very good footballer. 40 possessions from Steve Johnson would be more valuable than 40 possessions from Ablett. I am actually starting to think that you guys are like 10 years old. I'm not saying that Johnson is a better player, i'm saying he is a more skillful. BIG DIFFERENCE.

But give me franklin over ablett every single day of the week. 113 goals last year and will win the coleman this year

I think it was Garry Lyon who compared Rioli to Ablett, and I don't see it...yet.

He may develop into an inside/outside midfielder with exceptional vision and kicking skills with a tank to run all day, a low centre of gravity and fine handballing skills.

But I see Rioli as a great wingman with immaculate kicking skills and pace, with a keen eye for goal.

Very similar to how Davey is playing right now, and since we already have one...

The value of Morton, if our development coaches can bring it about, is the opportunity to have a Richo-like wingman that sees the play a kick ahead and stops goals and scores goals, and can also rack up 30 odd disposals.

And that is something we would be very fortunate to have.

I have it on very good authority that the dees were going to take Grimes at pick 4 if Morton was not available. So you d expect even if Rioli was available at pick 14, dees would still have picked Grimes. Let s just hope Grimes' body holds up. Looks an outstanding prospect, very cool player in the Brett Lovett mould.

I have it on very good authority that the dees were going to take Grimes at pick 4 if Morton was not available. So you d expect even if Rioli was available at pick 14, dees would still have picked Grimes. Let s just hope Grimes' body holds up. Looks an outstanding prospect, very cool player in the Brett Lovett mould.

oh geez, u really are 10 years old. I can't believe you fell for the 'oh we rated our recruit so much higher than what we got him at. What a bargain' trick. Every recruiter says that.

Grimes looks great, apart from his kicking action. similar to cheney if you ask me.

oh geez, u really are 10 years old. I can't believe you fell for the 'oh we rated our recruit so much higher than what we got him at. What a bargain' trick. Every recruiter says that.

Grimes looks great, apart from his kicking action. similar to cheney if you ask me.

why bother contributing. had it been a quote from the age the day after the draft i would have stated it. instead i said very good authority. dont put words in my mouth you clown.

well if they rated grimes as the 4th best player then our recruiting staff have some issues. His kicking action is flawed, not majorly..but its flawed nonetheless

Ha ha ha! Flawed kicking action ....... like Gary Ablett Jnr. How is Jason Akermanis' kicking action? Flawed like Ablett's? He also keeps his head over the ball in a crouched fashion. Please tell me his action is flawed.

Calling people 10 year olds does nothing to cover over your highlights tape assessments.

Psuedo intellectual.

Do you think we got our picks right in the 2007 Draft in hind sight?....

Short Answer: IMO Yes, because we drafted what we needed and what we were looking for in the future.

Cale Morton Vs Cyril Rioli

Two great young players who play different roles in their teams and are different in body type etc. As others have said we did not need another small forward at MFC and so for this reason I would not swap Cale for Cyril.

As for the rest of the debate I'll leave it you all Have Fun, Play Nice

Morton versus Rioli

Ask the question again in around 10 years

Guys, this isn't exactly a Fiora v Palich or Tambling v Franklin issue, is it.

Morton is an excellent young player, offering first rate football as a teenager, depsite being a tall with a still very skinny frame. The possibilites are immense.

And if we'd had Rioli, would Wonaeamirri have gotten as much of a chance from the rookie list? Particularly important given his injury issues in his second year.

Rioli is also a gem and filled the role he was targeted for perfectly.

I think it has and will work out beautifully for all parties concerned.

The question itself is rather misleading...

Are we rating them both to this current point in their careers?

Is it about who has more upside for the future?

To date, I would take Rioli over Morton in a heartbeat. Any Melbourne supporter that says otherwise is completely naive and biased because Cale plays for the dees.

I don't care if they play different positions. Rioli has far greater impact on games than Cale does. In fact, I would back Rioli in nearly every situation over Cale TO THIS POINT IN TIME.

Here are a list of skills I think Rioli holds over Cale.

Kicking

Speed

Agility

Tackling

Marking

Cale probably has a bigger tank and his work rate is elite.

Honestly can't think of anything else.

Yes one day he may be as good or better at these skills than Rioli, but at this point in time I would much rather have a Rioli running around in ANY position than have Cale accumulating a majority of loose ball gets/meaningless possessions.

Think with your head people, not your hearts.

Short Answer: IMO Yes, because we drafted what we needed and what we were looking for in the future.

Good answer, Felix. I couldn't have said it better myself.

The question itself is rather misleading...

Are we rating them both to this current point in their careers?

Is it about who has more upside for the future?

Yes one day he may be as good or better at these skills than Rioli, but at this point in time I would much rather have a Rioli running around in ANY position than have Cale accumulating a majority of loose ball gets/meaningless possessions.

Think with your head people, not your hearts.

I wouldn't make recruiting decisions based on the first 30 weeks of the draftee.

So why would this comparison have to be about what they have done so far, how they have played, where they have played, etc.

It's an unanswerable hypothetical (that may be tautology) to know if we drafted poorly. So it's all about opinion, opinion of the careers of these two.

And I, as I pointed out above, see Cale Morton as a more valuable commodity than Cyril Rioli.