Could Jack Grimes win the rising star?

[Neita3000 37]

After watching this kid on Saturday I'm convinced he is just about the most talented youngster on our list (yes this includes Watts, Morton, Garland, McLean and the like) Playing off the half back flank he provided the best run I've seen at the club since Nathan Brown was robbed of All Australian selection in 2004. His kicking at times may look a little awkward but it is extremely effective and nothing to be concerned about. He's also a great overhead mark, an assest I was surprised to see him excel in. Obviously he'll end up being a midfielder but for the moment its refreshing to see a running defender with talent and a smart decision maker down the back end (note to Daniel Bell). In the future I reckon he'll end up as a more dynamic version of Lenny Hayes.

Anyway everyone knows the Rising Star is awarded to the youngster with the highest posession tally at the end of the year aka Palmer I seriously could see Grimesy averaging around 20 effective touches each week unlike Palmer and actually deserving to win the Rising Star. For anyone else who agrees with me I suggest you sign up for an internet betting account and chuck some dollars on him at 31 to 1 he's great value.

He'll also be the next captain of Melbourne no doubt about it.

[Dee tention 617]

Yes. Definitely! Is a good show.

[45HG 1,559]

He can certainly win it, if he staves off injury, but will not be our next Captain

[Pates 9,660]

but will not be our next Captain

Don't you know, every new gun is going to be our next captain!

But Grimes really does look the goods. Over the last few years i've heard about so many players who have come to the club injured going to be stars and not delivered, but Grimes just looks a natural! I think i might take those odds for the rising star.

[Freak 100]

to compare grimes to mclean is just silly. mcleans kicking is elite, grimes' is not and never will be. todays game you need a good kick..and lenny hayes' is a great kick too. the best kicks in the league like hodge, dew, pendlebury, pavlich, gilbee, malceski, drummond etc all have good looking actions(most good kicks in the league are left footed too but thats another story). once a bad action, always a bad action. its why matthew richardson has never got better at kicking. Sadly Jones, Frawley, Grimes, Bate, Bartram and Morton are not going to have any rapid improvements in their disposals, as history suggests from players with bad kicking actions.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

to compare grimes to mclean is just silly. mcleans kicking is elite, grimes' is not and never will be. todays game you need a good kick..and lenny hayes' is a great kick too. the best kicks in the league like hodge, dew, pendlebury, pavlich, gilbee, malceski, drummond etc all have good looking actions(most good kicks in the league are left footed too but thats another story). once a bad action, always a bad action. its why matthew richardson has never got better at kicking. Sadly Jones, Frawley, Grimes, Bate, Bartram and Morton are not going to have any rapid improvements in their disposals, as history suggests from players with bad kicking actions.

Freak where did you recieve your degree in biomechanics? And how did you come to the conclusion that the players you mentioned have poor kicking actions and not have an issue say with distance judgement, pressure or decision making?

[Guest petjud]

to compare grimes to mclean is just silly. mcleans kicking is elite, grimes' is not and never will be. todays game you need a good kick..and lenny hayes' is a great kick too. the best kicks in the league like hodge, dew, pendlebury, pavlich, gilbee, malceski, drummond etc all have good looking actions(most good kicks in the league are left footed too but thats another story). once a bad action, always a bad action. its why matthew richardson has never got better at kicking. Sadly Jones, Frawley, Grimes, Bate, Bartram and Morton are not going to have any rapid improvements in their disposals, as history suggests from players with bad kicking actions.

Freak, I actually wonder whether you are like me and the eyesight is getting a bit poor, that's why I take binnoculars to the game, Grimes, Bate and Morton have bad kicking actions?.......Morton did a perfect 50 metre cross field kick at the weekend laces out to Miller, Grimes did not miss a target and Bate kicked four goals the week before, all from different possies and angles.........

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

Surely the ability to kick should be judged on results, not biomechanical action. If someone hits a target a high percentage of the time in match conditions, I'll pick him over anyone else with a prettier kicking action.

And yes, Grimes can definetely win the Rising Star award. He is already getting attention from many media commentators, so is halfway there.

He is a must for any fantasy teams also. Cheap as chips.

And the captaincy? Who knows imo. People talk Watts up extremely highly (re: Robbo in an article I read a few days ago) and Maclean is still highly rated. Time will tell.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

In the future I reckon he'll end up as a more dynamic version of Lenny Hayes.

He'll also be the next captain of Melbourne no doubt about it.

I tell you what, that Hayes part is dead on. I knew he reminded me of someone, but I couldn't think who. As for the captain part, I'm not so sure about that. He's played only a few games. He's got the goods, no doubt about it, but there's a looong way to go before he hits that kind of level.

to compare grimes to mclean is just silly. mcleans kicking is elite, Sadly Jones, Frawley, Grimes, Bate, Bartram and Morton are not going to have any rapid improvements in their disposals, as history suggests from players with bad kicking actions.

Mclean is not an elite kick. I don't mind his delivery by foot, but he's no Dew/Hodge... While his "stats" may make a liar out of me, I reckon the definition of a great kick is someone who delivers it well under pressure as well as they do when comfortable and balanced. Think Hird. McLean is a good kick, but not great.

I agree with Jones and Bartram... but Bate and Frawley are underrated by you. Particularly Bate who is a booming kick. Oh, and if you're going to call Morton a worse kick than McLean you need to get your eyes checked. He makes mistakes, but the kid is a superb kick even with that in mind.

I reckon it's a simple thing where you place too much emphasis on the attractiveness of kicking action. You're looking for the orthodox drop punt at every turn. I think a coach and player has to look beyond the typical to get the best out of his action. Chris Judd has a very stabbing action, and his ball-drop isn't perfect. And yet it gets the job done time after time.

I'm looking for results, not attractive technique.

[Jarka 767]

to compare grimes to mclean is just silly. mcleans kicking is elite, grimes' is not and never will be. todays game you need a good kick..and lenny hayes' is a great kick too. the best kicks in the league like hodge, dew, pendlebury, pavlich, gilbee, malceski, drummond etc all have good looking actions(most good kicks in the league are left footed too but thats another story). once a bad action, always a bad action. its why matthew richardson has never got better at kicking. Sadly Jones, Frawley, Grimes, Bate, Bartram and Morton are not going to have any rapid improvements in their disposals, as history suggests from players with bad kicking actions.

Stewie Loewe went from the worst set shots on goal to one of the best so it can be done

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,233]

to compare grimes to mclean is just silly. mcleans kicking is elite, grimes' is not and never will be. todays game you need a good kick..and lenny hayes' is a great kick too. the best kicks in the league like hodge, dew, pendlebury, pavlich, gilbee, malceski, drummond etc all have good looking actions(most good kicks in the league are left footed too but thats another story). once a bad action, always a bad action.

Freak can you define what makes a player an elite kick in your opinion. Is it not just their ability to consistently hit targets across a variety of distances? What would you have classed Travis Johnstone?

[mo64 5,881]

Think Hird. McLean is a good kick, but not great.

I'm looking for results, not attractive technique.

Hird was not a great kick. Gary O'Donnell, his former teammate and assistant coach at the time, made mention of this fact during Hird's last season. He kicked some freakish goals and made good decisions, but was not the most reliable kick for goal.

Ken Hunter and Jared Rivers are 2 players with awkward but effective kicking styles.

[Freak 100]

my definition of an elite kick is 'someone that can successfully and regularly hit the desired target despite being under pressure, kicking through traffic or kicking over long distances'.

Not one of Grimes' kicks were over 40metres and none of them were in any sort of pressure. The likes of Hodge who kick it 60 metres, off one step through traffic, into the corridor is alot more skilful than kicking it 25metres to an open target. And yes, Grimes did stuff up a kick in the 3rd quarter when he grubbed it along the ground.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Freak can you define what makes a player an elite kick in your opinion. Is it not just their ability to consistently hit targets across a variety of distances? What would you have classed Travis Johnstone?

I was going to mention TJ, as he had one of the 'prettiest' kicking actions in the game, but he missed a lot of targets. I remember an article in the HS a few years back about players considered good kicks who were statistically very poor and TJ was top of the list.

As for Morton, I think he is an decent kick now but his kicking may improve as he thickens out a bit. At the moment he is a bit lanky and rangey.

Also, on the threads original topic, Grimes is very good odds at 33-1, and also a very good Dream Team option this year as he should rack up the possessions. Still think Daniel Rich is the best bet though.

[Guest petjud]

my definition of an elite kick is 'someone that can successfully and regularly hit the desired target despite being under pressure, kicking through traffic or kicking over long distances'.

Not one of Grimes' kicks were over 40metres and none of them were in any sort of pressure. The likes of Hodge who kick it 60 metres, off one step through traffic, into the corridor is alot more skilful than kicking it 25metres to an open target. And yes, Grimes did stuff up a kick in the 3rd quarter when he grubbed it along the ground.

Obviously you can judge a teenage player who is coming off a long term injury and has had two and a bit games, obviously he may as well give up now, rather than him play 100+ games for Melbourne, I think I would prefer he listen to you, realise he is a crap kick and give the game away.......I watched him at the intraclub, in Launceston live and on Satuday, he has promise but I would not even begin to label him a bad/poor kick, his kicking was one of the highlights for me along with the amount of time he seems to have with the ball, and it can only get better and better, that's if he decides to continue after reading this thread of course

[Freak 100]

Obviously you can judge a teenage player who is coming off a long term injury and has had two and a bit games, obviously he may as well give up now, rather than him play 100+ games for Melbourne, I think I would prefer he listen to you, realise he is a crap kick and give the game away.......I watched him at the intraclub, in Launceston live and on Satuday, he has promise but I would not even begin to label him a bad/poor kick, his kicking was one of the highlights for me along with the amount of time he seems to have with the ball, and it can only get better and better, that's if he decides to continue after reading this thread of course

a long term injury won't change ur kicking action. If Grimes' kicking was a highlight for you than you are easily pleased. Players I consider could kicks Hodge, Dew, Josh Hunt, Gilbee, Didak, Goddard, Drummond, Pavlich, S.Burgoyne, Malceski, J.Nash, Clinton Young, Richard Douglas, Dal Santo. Sure Grimes can find the footy, but at the end of the day, everyone on this site would have hit the targets that Grimes did on Saturday. What has been impressive with Girmes is his ball finding ability and his overhead marking. But i'm alot more excited about Strauss, someone that can kick.

[Guest petjud]

a long term injury won't change ur kicking action. If Grimes' kicking was a highlight for you than you are easily pleased. Players I consider could kicks Hodge, Dew, Josh Hunt, Gilbee, Didak, Goddard, Drummond, Pavlich, S.Burgoyne, Malceski, J.Nash, Clinton Young, Richard Douglas, Dal Santo. Sure Grimes can find the footy, but at the end of the day, everyone on this site would have hit the targets that Grimes did on Saturday. What has been impressive with Girmes is his ball finding ability and his overhead marking. But i'm alot more excited about Strauss, someone that can kick.

I am not easily pleased, I am just not overly critical - especially of young teenages who will have what hopefully will be long careers at Melbourne, you say he only kicked 40 metres but he hit the target, last year much to everybody's chagrin we had a whole team which was struggling to do just that., every name you have above is at least two to three years into their career, can we revisit this topic say in 2011 and if Grimes is still there, we can disucss then.

Do give a secret away, I am not Australian born and of course my kicking action when I was playing was atrocious hitting targets was a problem, but on the run I ciould kick around the corner, banana and bounce along the ground, kicking of the ground (I was even quite good at the Marty Clarke pick up with the foot into the hand) to a target, because that is what I had

grown up with, so it is all relative

[Freak 100]

no we won't revisit it then. All of those players were known to have good kicking skills when initially drafted.

We picked up Jones, Frawley, Bate etc. Has their kicking really improved? The answer: Hardly, if at all.

There is a reason we picked up a whole draft pool of good kicks, because we only have a few on our list that can actually kick the ball properly. If only Neil Daniher recognised this as early as i did

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

once morton and grimes are more aware of whats around them i think you will find the disposal will improve,one hasnt played a game, and the other only 20, so they probably get a bit nervous when they get there hands on it,i thought mortons disposals were outstanding last season, considering the side he played in,if grimes has a season like cale did last year were going to be very happy demons in about 4 seasons. :D

[Guest petjud]

no we won't revisit it then. All of those players were known to have good kicking skills when initially drafted.

We picked up Jones, Frawley, Bate etc. Has their kicking really improved? The answer: Hardly, if at all.

There is a reason we picked up a whole draft pool of good kicks, because we only have a few on our list that can actually kick the ball properly. If only Neil Daniher recognised this as early as i did

At the AGM CC said that the players were drafted primarily because they had played and demonstrated they could play in pressure situations.. the fact that they could supposedly kcik was a bonus Some of the good kicks you mentioned have certain players on the end of their kicks that would make one of my helicopters look good...ie Dew and Hodge to Roughead or Franklin, Del Santo to Reinwoldt, Burgoyne to Tredrea........as I said it is all relative...I would like to see that rather ordinary forward Scott Lucas hit a target lace out with his right foot, he would probably fall over trying as he is not used to balancing on his left........

[Freak 100]

Wow. i've never seen a worse argument. Hodge is made to look better by the likes of franklin and roughead and Dal santo by riewoldt? Hodge and Dal have been elite kicks as soon as they were drafted pretty much.

And regarding to the awareness argument. Just ask Daniel Bell if his awareness has got any better? Where are all the Daniel Bell lovers now? nowhere to be seen. another 'i told you so' from the freak. cant wait to be proven wrong.

[Deestroy All 14,266]

no we won't revisit it then. All of those players were known to have good kicking skills when initially drafted.

We picked up Jones, Frawley, Bate etc. Has their kicking really improved? The answer: Hardly, if at all.

There is a reason we picked up a whole draft pool of good kicks, because we only have a few on our list that can actually kick the ball properly. If only Neil Daniher recognised this as early as i did

Frawley has hardly missed a target all preseason.

I'd back Bate on the run from 50 every day of the week. And it looks like he's worked on his set shots, straight run up, straight kick.

As you point out, they both have questionable actions, but I think you'll find they'll hit the target more often than not.

[Nasher 33,617]

Robbo is a good example of a rubbish kick coming good.

[Guest petjud]

once morton and grimes are more aware of whats around them i think you will find the disposal will improve,one hasnt played a game, and the other only 20, so they probably get a bit nervous when they get there hands on it,i thought mortons disposals were outstanding last season, considering the side he played in,if grimes has a season like cale did last year were going to be very happy demons in about 4 seasons. :D

Freak, this is what I am trying to say. except it was said a little better, kicks can be made to look good depending on the player on the end of it, of course that is the case, if you kick into space and the forward is too slow or too lazy to get to the drop of the ball of course your kick is going to look lousy, you can load up like Dew and bomb it sixty metres coz you know Buddy has already got five metres on his opponent and will take it over his head at full speed, I can remember Dal Santo last year or maybe the year before when he was struggling with injury turning the ball over by foot quite often.. Morton must get frustrated when he sends a raking kick down and Newton either tries to turn it into a speccy, ignores it completely or drops it, an ineffective kick to Morton on the stats.

[Freak 100]

missing the point. its not neccessarily about hitting the target. Both of those players hesitate quite a bit...a reason for this is because they see an option, realise they don't have the skills to kick it to the target so they settle for the easy option out of defence.