Close your windows and take down your clocks

[e25 5]

"OK, so you just want a bit of 'spin' ? Some pyschological claptrap from the club will make you feel better.

Maybe you and Mo can shout from the stands "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore !!"

-this is what u said

i see what u r getting accross, but why did jim stynes have to say "we wont make finals" rather than, "it may be a difficult year on and off the field, that is why we need everyone from the fans to the captain to believe in us and be proud and passionate in supporting our cub. our aim is to win matches and we will accept nothing less"

i suppose that is a bit of "pyschological claptrap" but i think that's better than basically saying we suck

Mate he didn't say 'we suck'. You just read between the lines.

Can you safely say, that if he said what you propose, you would not still read between the lines?

[Yencks 8]

Mate he didn't say 'we suck'. You just read between the lines.

Can you safely say, that if he said what you propose, you would not still read between the lines?

im paraphrasing

in my opinion, if we cant make finals, if we cant be in the top half of the league, we suck

if we are that bad that he says before the season has even started that we cant make finals, to me, he is basically saying we suck

[Tigers Dayz 2]

OK, so you just want a bit of 'spin' ? Some pyschological claptrap from the club will make you feel better.

Maybe you and Mo can shout from the stands "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore !!"

I think we don't want the negative spin from the club, that's all. It is unhelpful, unprofessional in a sporting environment, and yes, it promotes mediocrity and a basis for copping out. Don't give me crap about simply telling it like it is. Sometimes its wise to shutup and get on with it, even if it's hard or seemingly impossible.

if you've misunderstood the message i am trying to get accross then i apologise

we are not saying that "bailey and co will let the players off the hook"

-but as mo says, it sends a message to everyone that it is alright if we lose because no one expects us to

the guilt that a player should feel if they let the team down will not be as great if the president has said it's ok to lose

Correct Nugget!

There's some pragmatism in the ranks here that smells of cowardice. Let's roll along with the winter plan, as long as I've escaped the missus for the afternoon, and I'm in the stands with my mates, doing what I've been doing for the last 44 years.... bring on another comfortable winter! How wonderful life is!

[Tigers Dayz 2]

.........................

And the 2nd sentence refers to supporters who would be happy to be slightly more competitive in the short-term, not realising this would condemn us to being far worse off in the near future than we are now, as opposed to doing what we are attempting now which could lead to the ultimate glory.

Shaft, I been painted elsewhere on these boards as a tautologist, or even an oxymoron (sic), but I don't understand this sentence.....

[45HG 1,539]

You weren't called one Dees, your sentence was dubbed as such

[Tigers Dayz 2]

You weren't called one Dees, your sentence was dubbed as such

I know 45, one day my strange sense of humour might be understood without these; :angry:

And perhaps I should use better tackle in future..

[45HG 1,539]

I'd prefer you used all of them...after every sentence

[Nasher 33,166]

I have a hard time holding it against Stynes for that comment. I can see why it would be perceived as waving the white flag, but I doubt anyone in the entire world of footy believe the result will be any different anyway. I think the link that has been drawn between the president's expectations (or even the footy boss or the coach's), and the effort that is to be applied by the footy department across the board is tenuous at best.

For me it's just an honest assessment of where we're at, and it's one I find pretty hard to dispute.

[H_T 2,941]

There is nothing "definitive" in sport, which is why you play for the moment, because nobody can predict what will happen in 2-3 years time. This is why I object to comments from Stynes and Connolly that we're 2-3 years away from being a contender.

Honestly, if they're saying that we're 2-3 years away from being a contender, its simply an honest assessment. We all know the club/team is well behind the eight ball. If anything, we're probably further away, such as 3-4 years from being a contender for the premiership. Statements like these whilst honest are not in anyway, shape or form - accepting mediocrity. They simply wouldn't stand for that. Why would Stynes, Connolly & Co. take on challenges in turning this club around in the first place.

I have a hard time holding it against Stynes for that comment. I can see why it would be perceived as waving the white flag, but I doubt anyone in the entire world of footy believe the result will be any different anyway. I think the link that has been drawn between the president's expectations (or even the footy boss or the coach's), and the effort that is to be applied by the footy department across the board is tenuous at best.

For me it's just an honest assessment of where we're at, and it's one I find pretty hard to dispute.

I agree.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

In terms of "telling it like it is" as everyone keeps going on about, there's a difference between saying "we won't make the finals next year" and "we have a young, inexperienced side that may struggle at times, but our aim is to still make the finals and win the flag".

[Rogue 585]

if we as fans, go to the game knowing that they are going to lose, condoning the fact that our president has stated that we will lose, we are losing all sense of culture and dignity

im not a fan of these statements:

-not because they may hurt

-not because they may be brutally honest

but because they are condoning the wrong attitude

--An attitude of "mediocrity" that i do not want to see at my football club

and when i say "mediocrity," i mean a losing culture where we do not strive to do the very best every day because it has been condoned

What sort of evidence is there to support the assertion that because we're realistic about where we're at off-field (we're not a powerhouse like Collingwood) and on-field (we're a long way off teams like Geelong and Hawthorn) it means that we will not strive to do our very best very day?

If anything it's just as likely to have the opposite impact - we know we're a long way off the pace and we have to work very hard to get where we want to be.

[H_T 2,941]

In terms of "telling it like it is" as everyone keeps going on about, there's a difference between saying "we won't make the finals next year" and "we have a young, inexperienced side that may struggle at times, but our aim is to still make the finals and win the flag".

Who was quoted with the first saying CB?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Who was quoted with the first saying CB?

Stynes, Connolly and Bailey have all said that, or words to that effect.

[H_T 2,941]

Stynes, Connolly and Bailey have all said that, or words to that effect.

Words to that effect.......hmmm. All I have heard Stynes say is that we could expect more pain on field next year, which is a far cry from, "we won't make the finals next year."

That is being realistic, not negative.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Words to that effect.......hmmm. All I have heard Stynes say is that we could expect more pain on field next year, which is a far cry from, "we won't make the finals next year."

That is being realistic, not negative.

Stynes said it in an interview on 3AW (I think?) a few days ago.

[Nasher 33,166]

In terms of "telling it like it is" as everyone keeps going on about, there's a difference between saying "we won't make the finals next year" and "we have a young, inexperienced side that may struggle at times, but our aim is to still make the finals and win the flag".

From where I sit, the only difference is the spin factor. I would interpret those two statements exactly the same way.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

From where I sit, the only difference is the spin factor. I would interpret those two statements exactly the same way.

Again, it's about creating a culture and not making excuses or setting standards so low that even crap results are acceptable.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

From where I sit, the only difference is the spin factor. I would interpret those two statements exactly the same way.

Agree.

Again, it's about creating a culture and not making excuses or setting standards so low that even crap results are acceptable.

Its not.

[H_T 2,941]

Stynes said it in an interview on 3AW (I think?) a few days ago.

Well, I would like to see a transcript or quote word for word of what Stynes said. I believe at this stage, you have taken him well out of context in this thread. That is, until you can back it up CB. Any chance of a quote or link..

[Rflowerwing 0]

Well, I would like to see a transcript or quote word for word of what Stynes said. I believe you have taken him well out of context in this thread.

I heard the interview live to air.

Stynes said unequivocally that we will not play finals next season. If you want a transcript, ring Media Monitors.

[H_T 2,941]

I heard the interview live to air.

Stynes said unequivocally that we will not play finals next season. If you want a transcript, ring Media Monitors.

Thank-you Rflowering.

[Roost It 1,434]

Stop the presses, President leaves spin at home and talks the truth. Well done Jimmy, you have my full support. People, here's a man who loves the club so much he invests what spare time he has in trying to rebuild it for free. He's a plain talker, not an Eddie Maguire spin merchant, but a normal dude with a big vision for this club. Get off his back and stop talking such dribble.

[Yencks 8]

i have nothing but praise for jimmy but i am just in general, not a fan of those sort of comments.

i think that it degrades the fact that we still want to make finals next year

it obviously wont happen, but we should all believe that it can

we should let people decide for themselves how good the club is, three month before the pre season cup even starts...however, we are being told how crap we are before some clubs have even started training

we dont need a big spin, but i just think it is a shame that we have this attitude of wanting to only win 4 games so we get pick 1 and pick 2

yes, pick 1 and 2 will be awesome, and i know it is about premiership chances these days etc etc

but, a winning culture can mean so much to a team and our aim should still be to win games/quarters from round 1 and then if we cant win, then we can look forward to draft picks

we should all go to games wanting to win

now, when stynes says, "we wont make finals", he is advocating that he thinks it is ok to lose in the short term

---it should never be ok to lose

even though the players want to win and the footy department want to win, these comments give them something to fall back on and they shouldnt have this safety net because they should always be striving for the best

belief needs to start somewhere, and it should start with the president and then finish with the fans

--it is us, most importantly, that should believe in our team more than anything, but if the president tells us we wont make finals, we wont believe in anything but the priority picks

this is not what a winning culture and premiership striving side should look for

[H_T 2,941]

we should all go to games wanting to win

now, when stynes says, "we wont make finals", he is advocating that he thinks it is ok to lose in the short term

---it should never be ok to lose

even though the players want to win and the footy department want to win, these comments give them something to fall back on and they shouldnt have this safety net because they should always be striving for the best

belief needs to start somewhere, and it should start with the president and then finish with the fans

--it is us, most importantly, that should believe in our team more than anything, but if the president tells us we wont make finals, we wont believe in anything but the priority picks

this is not what a winning culture and premiership striving side should look for

Yes agree with everything you say, but when he supposedly said that or what I believe in 'words to that effect', its simply being as honest as how we had performed in '08. That is a side that miraculously won a couple of games that we probably should not have. We also got thumped in many games. We've lost players through retirement, KPP mind you, turned over the list with 7 new players to come in. In '09 we will have a younger inexperienced side still at the start of their learning curve.

Now, we can swear until we are black and blue, and debate this until the sun rises, or until Barrack Obama finally takes office.. But if you asked every single AFL supporter, expert, commentator, follower, official, school kid out there. 99% of them would say that Melbourne will not make the finals in 2009.

You ask "Why?" They will respond, "Well for a start, look at your list!" - Use both eyes, not just one eye...

[Yencks 8]

Yes agree with everything you say, but when he supposedly said that or what I believe in 'words to that effect', its simply being as honest as how we had performed in '08. That is a side that miraculously won a couple of games that we probably should not have. We also got thumped in many games. We've lost players through retirement, KPP mind you, turned over the list with 7 new players to come in. In '09 we will have a younger inexperienced side still at the start of their learning curve.

Now, we can swear until we are black and blue, and debate this until the sun rises, or until Barrack Obama finally takes office.. But if you asked every single AFL supporter, expert, commentator, follower, official, school kid out there. 99% of them would say that Melbourne will not make the finals in 2009.

You ask "Why?" They will respond, "Well for a start, look at your list!" - Use both eyes, not just one eye...

prefer to use one eye

but i dont think it matters what everyone thinks

-we shouldnt have to think like that if we dont want to

we should be given a choice as to what we hope or what we think this club will achieve on the field

not be told that we blatantly wont make finals

apart from being honest, what does it achieve apart from potentially losing possible members/sponsors/supporters