Changes v North Melbourne

[Trisul 674]

'bell was ok and left his man - tarrant at times to get to the contest.'

Saw zero vision of the match, and as noted all over the radio commentary was abysmal, so am going with youami's call on the matchup. Tarrants stats:

11K 2HB 6M 5T 1G 3B

[youami 54]

bell didnt do much, limited game time, didnt really have a match up. Garland and Warnock played almost the whole game.

this quote is for rhino richards re james mcdonald

Reigning dual best-and-fairest winner James McDonald, who flew to Perth as an emergency for Melbourne's clash against Fremantle on Sunday, was not quite ready to return, although he could've taken the field at a pinch, according to Monaghan.

"He could've played, but only about 50 to 60 per cent of the game and we decided to take him over – we didn't entertain the thought of him playing for Sandringham – but we took him as a precaution, just in case he had to step in at the last minute," Monaghan said.

"But it would've been limited game time, so we preferred not to play him."

[Tigers Dayz 2]

My World:

In Green, Jmac, Pettered

Out: Don’t care, kids are kids.

Bizzaro World:

We have a percentage to protect against a rampaging WestTankEagles.

Last weeks team got the job done!

Give ‘em another go. No Changes

[H_T 3,049]

"but we took him as a precaution, just in case he had to step in at the last minute," Monaghan said.

There is your answer.

[youami 54]

There is your answer.

The sounds of silence was a great song by Simon and Garfunkle dont you think Rhino?

[Beamer 1]

I've come to my senses a bit regarding White. Hes useless to us now.

In: Petterd, Frawley

Out: Bell, Newton.

I think Carroll will be included though, with Maric not far away.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

I would like to see Petterd come in and play out the season. Frawley a possible in also which may release Garland forward.

McDonald also likely to come in, although I wouldnt be too disappointed if he didnt as he is getting on and his form this year is well down on the previous 2 years. A great club servant but he is not part of our future.

Juice is a huge worry for us IMO. He is playing like arse, and although I am all for sticking with youngsters in these times of rebuilding, they should at least show the neccessary application, and skills required to play at this level. The penny needs to drop soon for Juice!

If I were Bails:

INS: Petterd, Frawley

OUTS: Bell, Newton

White, Yze, and Carroll serve no purpose to us anymore. They can stick it out at Sandy for the rest of the year.

[Roost It 1,434]

I've come to my senses a bit regarding White. Hes useless to us now.

In: Petterd, Frawley

Out: Bell, Newton.

I think Carroll will be included though, with Maric not far away.

We have no choice but to persist with Newton. As a tall marking forward we need to give him a chance, certainly more than 2 or 3 games.

bell was ok last week and it would be unfair to drop him.

However I like your ins and feel both these guys are a part of the club's future

[deanox 10,052]

Juice is a huge worry for us IMO. He is playing like arse...

he has had two games in a row, and 3 for the year. spent most of the year out with injury. he has in total less than 15 games experience to his name, and is kicking over a goal per game on average (i think).

why isnt he given the time to adjust to afl, and the time to grow into his own position that everyone else is given? why doesnt he get the chance to find his feet?

is it because we all know he has some latent ability, and specifically an ability the team is crying out for?

[Roost It 1,434]

is it because we all know he has some latent ability, and specifically an ability the team is crying out for?

He does seem to be judged very harshly. Let's face it he's a tall lanky boy playing a man's game. He'll need time and I for one reckon he should be given at least 50 - 70 games to show us what he's got. His attitude does seem to be of concern but experience will help. he still needs to learn to apply himself 100% during games.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

he has had two games in a row, and 3 for the year. spent most of the year out with injury. he has in total less than 15 games experience to his name, and is kicking over a goal per game on average (i think).

why isnt he given the time to adjust to afl, and the time to grow into his own position that everyone else is given? why doesnt he get the chance to find his feet?

is it because we all know he has some latent ability, and specifically an ability the team is crying out for?

I am all for the young blokes playing out the season and being given a chance to adjust to the required level and prove themsleves etc. But to get this opportunity, I think that each player should show the desire, application, sacrifice etc. to play at this level. IMO (which could well be wrong, as my opinoins are only based on what I see looking from afar) Juice doesnt show some of these basic requirements which I would demand of my players. He needs to find these qualities, and until he does, I would play him at Sandy.

[DemonDave 1,099]

In: Schwab

Out: McNamee

Just the 1 change for this week....

[deanox 10,052]

He does seem to be judged very harshly. Let's face it he's a tall lanky boy playing a man's game. He'll need time and I for one reckon he should be given at least 50 - 70 games to show us what he's got. His attitude does seem to be of concern but experience will help. he still needs to learn to apply himself 100% during games.

a voice of reason. he needs time. he needs to improve, not only on his output, but also on the team things etc, but he should be given as much time as CJ, miller, sylvia, etc. why should he be judged so harshly?

I am all for the young blokes playing out the season and being given a chance to adjust to the required level and prove themsleves etc. But to get this opportunity, I think that each player should show the desire, application, sacrifice etc. to play at this level. IMO (which could well be wrong, as my opinoins are only based on what I see looking from afar) Juice doesnt show some of these basic requirements which I would demand of my players. He needs to find these qualities, and until he does, I would play him at Sandy.

i just dont understand where that opinion comes from? have you been going to sandy games this year? in round 1 versus hawthorn he was terrible and was dropped. he was injured and eventually got fit. since then in his few games at sandy, he kicked lots of goals and points and missed lots, and took marks. he has come into the mfc side and has done not much. but i honestly havnt seen him do anything poorly. he has chased his man around at FF, layed a few tackles, taken some marks.

if anything, my point of view is that he still isnt sure if he belongs, and he still looks lost - ie doesnt know his role well enough. playing FF for the mfc is different than playing CHF at sandy.

give him time to adapt. this year and next. if he still hasnt come on by this time next year then i can understand that he might be a goner.

but DB is being considered a very harsh judge of player, and DB picked him and didnt drop him after the first game.

[Roost It 1,434]

given as much time as CJ, miller, sylvia, etc. why should he be judged so harshly?

Let's hope he doesn't take this long!

[deanox 10,052]

Let's hope he doesn't take this long!

haha true, but everyone here is celebrating the fact that miller has had a great season (he is average 14 disposals, 8 marks and 1.3 goals), even though he has played over 100 games now, and is 25. (out of interest newton is average 8 disposals, 4 marks and 1.3 goals).

CJ is having a purple patch over the last few weeks, but he has had 28 games and is a year and a bit older than newton. and we all expect that talls will take longer than smalls to develop...

[Beamer 1]

CJ at least had some consistent games. Whilst he didnt bring it all together he showed some 4 quarter efforts.

Newton is a one trick pony. No work ethic, lazy and inconsistent.

[deanox 10,052]

CJ at least had some consistent games.

are you sure? i had only ever seen glimpses.

[Beamer 1]

are you sure? i had only ever seen glimpses.

He was named Best First Year Player 2005. Would suggest he played some decent games.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

i just dont understand where that opinion comes from? have you been going to sandy games this year? in round 1 versus hawthorn he was terrible and was dropped. he was injured and eventually got fit. since then in his few games at sandy, he kicked lots of goals and points and missed lots, and took marks. he has come into the mfc side and has done not much. but i honestly havnt seen him do anything poorly. he has chased his man around at FF, layed a few tackles, taken some marks.

if anything, my point of view is that he still isnt sure if he belongs, and he still looks lost - ie doesnt know his role well enough. playing FF for the mfc is different than playing CHF at sandy.

give him time to adapt. this year and next. if he still hasnt come on by this time next year then i can understand that he might be a goner.

but DB is being considered a very harsh judge of player, and DB picked him and didnt drop him after the first game.

I certainly want him given time on the list. Im not one of those posters who wants someone delisted after a couple of bad games. Especially a young, key position player. But I still dont think he shows enough application to warrant a spot in the side. I am happy for the youngsters to be getting a game when they are working hard, chasing, putting head over the ball etc. Since Newtons return he has layed 2 tackles in 2 games (granted I wouldnt expect too many for a FF), and I have seen a couple of half arsed chases. I just dont think he has shown enough improvements in these areas, he still comes across as lazy to me. I think he needs to be dropped, given a rocket, and needs to realise what is required quick.

[deanox 10,052]

He was named Best First Year Player 2005. Would suggest he played some decent games.

no it doesnt. these are his 2005 stats.

Year Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag.

2005 4 6.8 2.5 9.2 3.8 0 0 1.8 0 0 0.8

4 games for an average of 9.2 disposals. disposal high was 14.

in 2006 he had two games with 20 disposals. all other had less than 15.

in 2007 his highest disposals in any game was 17. he made double figures 6 times out of 8.

this year he has played 3 games with disposals above 20 (the last 3).

people want to give CJ more time.

in newtons first season at afl level he kicked 14.8 in 10 games. this year he has 4.4 in 3 games. out of interest newton has played 2 less seasons at afl level than CJ has. as a goal kicker newton has contributed in every game he has played (bar 1).

[deanox 10,052]

remember that the official tackle stats are effective tackles: 'tackles that disposses or cause a turnover' i believe.

it doesnt say how many times he has chased an opponent around only to have them handball off at the last second. tackle stats imo show the quality of your tackles, not the endeavour or application.

[Beamer 1]

In those years, CJ's game wouldnt have been based on his possesion tally but his development as a running back.

[deanox 10,052]

In those years, CJ's game wouldnt have been based on his possesion tally but his development as a running back.

ok so the stats show he didnt have any outstanding games, but you wont admit that.

the stats show that CJ has had 2 extra years of playing at afl level than newton, but that doesnt interest you.

because of a perceived mental weakness you are prepared to write off a young player who has kicked an average of more than a goal a game over his first 13 games, and not let him find his feet as we have allowed CJ to find his?

(and i thought id note this for those who have expressed the 'he needs a long run in the seniors' argument. he got rounds 17,18,19 in 2005. in 2006 he got 9-15 (7 games in a row) on top of 2 other games. in 2007 he got rounds 1 and 2, 14,15,16 and 21,22 as consecutive games. and this year he has played rounds 3,4 and 12,13,14,15,16. so in the last 3 years he has been dropped after 1 game only three times, runs of 3 or more games in every season. not saying he wouldnt have benefited from more game time, but he got runs, and wasnt chopped and changed as much as some have made out.)

[Beamer 1]

ok so the stats show he didnt have any outstanding games, but you wont admit that.

the stats show that CJ has had 2 extra years of playing at afl level than newton, but that doesnt interest you.

because of a perceived mental weakness you are prepared to write off a young player who has kicked an average of more than a goal a game over his first 13 games, and not let him find his feet as we have allowed CJ to find his?

I wouldnt expect any less than a goal a game on average. Actually I expect more from someone with so much talent.

I just dont see why we should persist with Juice, when we are so far from reaping any rewards.

If he was showing signs of improvement, I would be fine with it.

[deanox 10,052]

I wouldnt expect any less than a goal a game on average. Actually I expect more from someone with so much talent.

I just dont see why we should persist with Juice, when we are so far from reaping any rewards.

If he was showing signs of improvement, I would be fine with it.

brad millers season average for goals reads something like this:

2002 0

2003 .1

2004 .6

2005 .3

2006 .3

2007 .6

2008 1.3

he wasnt improving but he got to 100 games. juice has played 13. in brad millers first season he got a total of 6 disposals no goals in 4 games. in millers second season he play 16 games, for 1 goal ad an average of 7.7 disposals.