Anyone for cricket?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

It's actually worrying. We have one Test quality batsman in the entire country (Clarke).

There are 0 players not in this squad who are threatening to become a Test player, whilst the current side is made up of barely first class talent.

That's the scary part. Rogers, Watson and Hughes should all be playing Lancashire league and learning ATM.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Quick, rush Ed Cowan back!

We're [censored]. The cupboard is completely bare. It's the Aussie equivalent of out: Pedersen in: Dunn.

Philip Hughes has to be Lucas Cook selection.

I cringed when he was selected for another Ashes tour. Ugh.

Two weak dismissals in this Test and he bizarrely challenged both on no good reason. The guy does not have a basic clue.

This effort is as spineless as the 1st innings. I did not think it possible.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

He's a one-dimensional fail of a Test player.

Another useless, standard Watson innings. 20 off 23, out LBW.

Get him out.

And this is someone they should consider replacing him with:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/6060.html

Still only 34 so has a few years in him. Averaged 44 in County Cricket in 2012 and scored a century in his most recent county match that only finished the other day.

It's also worth remembering that he scored a century in his last test and he's scored 3 in 11 test matches, one more then Watson in his 40+.. Another Brad Hodge who was pushed aside while we instead focused on hacks like Marcus North and Shaun Marsh.....

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Lunch Day 4

England 1st Innings 361

I. Bell 109

R. Harris 5/72 (26)

Australia 1st Innings 128

S. Watson 30

G. Swann 5/44 (21.3)

England 2nd Innings 7/349dec

J. Root 180

P. Siddle 3/65 (21)

Australia 2nd Innings 3/48 (Target 583)

S. Watson 20

G. Swann 2/10 (7)

Hughes and Watson are looking in the gun and this very well could be all over by tea. The only potential positive is that it gives the likes of Khawaja & Smith an opportunity to try and bat for long periods of time and lock a spot in the XI. Sadly though I don't know if we'll get within 400 runs. The question will then be do we keep chopping and changing the XI, or pick an XI and try and leave them together for as long as possible to try and click?

[Nasher 33,607]

And this is someone they should consider replacing him with:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/player/6060.html

Still only 34 so has a few years in him. Averaged 44 in County Cricket in 2012 and scored a century in his most recent county match that only finished the other day.

It's also worth remembering that he scored a century in his last test and he's scored 3 in 11 test matches, one more then Watson in his 40+.. Another Brad Hodge who was pushed aside while we instead focused on hacks like Marcus North and Shaun Marsh.....

...for England? He's playing as a non-international player and has retired from Cricket in Australia. He could be the next Darren Pattinson.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

...for England? He's playing as a non-international player and has retired from Cricket in Australia. He could be the next Darren Pattinson.

It would just be as simple as cricket Australia organising one of the states to sign him up overnight and he's eligable as far as I was aware as he's played for Australia within the last 5 years. Neither Ponting or Katicj are currently contracted to a state byt are a county team and there's been talk of them being drafted into the Aussie team.

Jaques at least would still potentially have about 3 years in him.

[titan_uranus 24,595]

There was an article in the paper today about Simon Katich, the forgotten man. Should never have been dropped when he was. He's currently in good form in English County cricket and has said he has not retired from international cricket.

We could do a lot worse.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Well done Usman Khawaja on your 2nd test 50. Knuckled down despite looking all at sea early against Swann and played sensible Test cricket.

Now to make your first 100 and bat for another four and a bit sessions...

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Tea Day 4

England 1st Innings 361

I. Bell 109

R. Harris 5/72 (26)

Australia 1st Innings 128

S. Watson 30

G. Swann 5/44 (21.3)

England 2nd Innings 7/349dec

J. Root 180

P. Siddle 3/65 (21)

Australia 2nd Innings 6/136 (Target 583)

U. Khawaja 54

J. Root 2/8 (4)

Finally looked like we were about to have a good session when 3 wickets in the last 15 minutes before tea killed that! Game over and I'm going to bed. Fingers crossed Haddin & the tail can show some fight and we make at least 183 to get within 400. How sad when that's a goal!

Look forward to discussing potential changes to the XI tomorrow.

[Biffen 12,823]

The team is completely Rooted.

Thats what happens when the captain cant handle strong personalities around him.

The bogan from West Sydney is to blame.

[45HG 1,539]

Yep. It's Clarke's fault that the other guys are knobs, Watson refuses to fix technical flaws and we have no other decent batsmen in the country.

[jazza 1,323]

Clarke smears himself.

Cannot take a joke or handle different personalities.

He is a great batsman on a flat track under no pressure but he is no skipper.

How can you leave a tour just because you have found out Fev was rooting your Fiance?

His countless issues with other players shows he is a little sook .

Clarke has failed so many times to step up to the leadership role(which involves more than saying the right things to James Sutherland)that he should be sacked .

We will be 2-0 after tonight.

He lost the first test due to the DRS in which Cook out-thought him.

He is not making runs.He has a dodgy back and a weak personality.

ended career of katich after the change room fight when simon was the only one prepared to tell him that symonds was duffing lara

Clarke also now holds the world record for using the most clichés during interviews than any modern sportsperson

Edited July 22, 2013 by jazza

[dee-luded 2,959]

It would just be as simple as cricket Australia organising one of the states to sign him up overnight and he's eligable as far as I was aware as he's played for Australia within the last 5 years. Neither Ponting or Katicj are currently contracted to a state byt are a county team and there's been talk of them being drafted into the Aussie team.

Jaques at least would still potentially have about 3 years in him.

We need Ponting in the test team to help steady the ship morally & cricket wise. especially as the pace attack is more seam & swing. they don't seem to have any real tearaways.

I'd welcome both back Katich as well.

cricket australia has IMO caused all this controversy thru its decisions over the last 4 or so years.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Tea Day 4

England 1st Innings 361

I. Bell 109

R. Harris 5/72 (26)

Australia 1st Innings 128

S. Watson 30

G. Swann 5/44 (21.3)

England 2nd Innings 7/349dec

J. Root 180

P. Siddle 3/65 (21)

Australia 2nd Innings 6/136 (Target 583)

U. Khawaja 54

J. Root 2/8 (4)

Finally looked like we were about to have a good session when 3 wickets in the last 15 minutes before tea killed that! Game over and I'm going to bed. Fingers crossed Haddin & the tail can show some fight and we make at least 183 to get within 400. How sad when that's a goal!

Look forward to discussing potential changes to the XI tomorrow.

last 15 minutes... almost looks like as we try to become defensive, we fall. maybe we should stop putting up the shutters before the end of sessions, & just play our shots.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

TD's steps to repairing Australian cricket.

First of all let me say that there's certainly no quick fixes. We can shuffle a few deck chairs around here and there which may help somewhat, but we don't have any magic wand that will fix this quick. We've now lost 6 test matches in a row with 8 more to come against England and then the next 3 after that against South Africa in South Africa before a series against Pakistan in a neutral country, not sure if it will be England or UAE? So repair work both on field and off field will need to be done and here's how I'd attack each starting as of the end of this English leg of the Ashes.

ON FIELD:

1. Remove Watson, Warner and Hughes from the Test team and tell them to concerntrate on helping us climb back up the ladder in the shorter formats of the game. These guys would form a reasonably impressive ODI & T20 top 3 so tell them that this is something we want them to ownership of that, at least this way they may still feel somewhat valued.

2. Bring Simon Katich out of retirement, even if it's only until the end of our 2014/15 summer, This guys a proven performer and leader and still has the desire to play. Bat him at 3 or as an openner depending on how Roges form goes for the remainder of this series.

3. Convince Clarke to hand over the captaincy to Simon Katich. He's our best player by a mile and our struggles will be taking it's toll on him. He's to valuable to have this on his mind. We'd be better with Clarke just concerntrating on his batting at either 4 or 5. Katich to become captain and bring George Bailey in as vice captain and we're set.

4. Target a group of players and stick by them. Guys like Usman Khawaja, James Faulkner, Aston Agar should be picked and played and given a proper opportunity. Identify the players with the right temperment, technique and character and give them a run. Try and stop the constant chopping and changing. An XI I'd love to see us go through the home Ashes series with and South African tour with is:

Simon Katich* (New captain and proven performer. can bring back some old school agression to the team.)

Usman Khawaja (Should be played and given a proper run. Made a very good 50 last night and has the right technique to be a good opener IMO.)

Mark Cosgrove (Has been churning the runs out at Shield level for year now. 22 100's, averages 43 in FC cricket and still only 29. Could be another Mike Hussey.)

George Bailey (Although only average 38 in FC cricket, is a proven leader and has shown in ODI that he lifts at the higher level.)

Michael Clarke (Removed of captains burden and allowed to enjoy his cricket and just concerntrate on becoming the best batsman he can be.)

James Faulkner (Allrounder replacement for Watson. Averages 23 with ball, needs to lift his 29 bat average but has a heap of potential and will be a player.)

+Brad Haddin (Similar position to Katich. Is valuable given his leadership, will be repalced long term by Paine or Wade.)

Ashton Agar (Struggled in his 2nd test but played with injury. Hope they give the kid time, but Fawad will keep the pressure on.)

Peter Siddle (Heart and soul player and extremely valuable. Part of our strength in fast bowling.)

James Pattinson (Heaps of upside. Will be joined by Pat Cummins soon enough.)

Ryan Harris (Injury plagued fast bowler who they should continue to play until his body gives out.)

The likes of Pat Cummins, Jackson Bird, Mitchell Starc, Fawad Ahmed, Tim Paine, Alex Doolan & Andrew McDonald would be the next best cabs off the rank in case of injuries or tour duties IMO.

OFF FIELD:

1. Currently CA reduced the salary cap for states and made payment for the BBL seperate and players now get paid more for BBL then they do Shield. This must be rectified. The states need 100% of the cap with at least 50% to go towards Shield. 25% max to T20. We need to encourage Test cricketers, not T20 cricketers.

2. Expand the Shield to 9 teams by bringing in the ACT (Manuka Oval), NT (TIO Stadium) and Northern Queensland (Cazaly Stadium). A couple of flat decks in Darwin & Cairns will be good for the basmen to play long innings and bowlers to learn to work hard to get their wickets. Allow all states to sign 2 international players from England/West Indies so there isn't to big a drain on the talent pool, but at the same time this does expose more players to first class cricket which is a good thing.

3. Make the ground staff prepare test match pitches for the Shield matches and not result pitches. If the groundsmen deliberatly go against this, punish them with the less desirable international fixtures avaialble.

4. Block our three formats of the game so players aren't constantly going from one form to another. Have a 4 week block of Domestic One Day games from start of October to early November. 5 Shield matches from early November to mid/late December. BBL from Boxing Day to Australia Day 9I understand the need to have it on during school holidays. Remaining 4 Shield matches (9 teams) semi final and final of Shield from late January to mid March. At least this way there isn't as much chopping and changing.

If we were to take this path, soon enough i reckon we could get back to somewhere near where we should be. Sadly at the moment though I reckon we'd struggle against West Indies or New Zealand....

[jazza 1,323]

DEELUDED

it did start about then,ponting as good as he was didn't want to play in a losing team, when gilly retired he wouldn't accept a wicketkeeper. he plumped for another batsmen and was happy with backstop that could make a few runs. instead of rebuilding

then hayden was kept on for 10 tests to many and a young player couldn't get those early experiences under his belt.

and when the end was close, instead of spending the last 3 years at no 6 and ushering in yet another cadet, oh no ricky wants to stay at 3 and ruin the chances of the younger player fitting in. it was debated by ex players in the press that he was ruining the end of a great career,by the time he retired there was no plan in place, he did state at one stage that if dropped I will play ipl and get a million dollars

it was a threat that ca panicked about and did what the players wanted

TD, I think they might try a soccer thing in the shield and make it compulsory to have 2 players under a certain age

read my other post about katich re clarke

Edited July 22, 2013 by jazza

[jazza 1,323]

ok, were stuffed and after we get back home , there wont be many chances for new players to shine with limited shield games before the first test in brizzy. so what planning do we put in place between now and then

first we must pick a WICKETKEEPER not a batsmen keeper, this is heartbreaking to bowlers and team. said to be best . T LUDEMAN

batting line up. not rapt in smith but they have to tell him hes in for the next 8 tests and wont be dropped

cowan, was doing the take the shine off the ball as an opener, dont know why he was moved to 3,

kulwaja. same as smith leave him and tell him to figure it out

bowling now has to take away the four balls and bring the opposition scores down from 350 to 300

agar, mmmmm wondering hop good he can bat and will he be good enough to play as an allrounder, in the future

leadership. pfffft , we got none and nuffink on the way up.trouble is they wont drop golden boy and he wont move aside

so some minor changes now and some major confidence boosts now, could have an effect on the future very quickly

unfortunately james Sutherland went to the m.clarke school of cliché talking and doesn't have any balls for positive change

[H_T 3,032]

Channelling TD.....

HT's Steps to repair Australian Cricket...

H_T selected for Old Trafford.

In all seriousness, I think the team will bounce back at Old Trafford. I would look at Fawad as an inclusion.

But if anyone can communicate to the top order about patience and putting significant value on their wicket, I'm all ears. Because if they are being told, they are not listening. Including the skipper who danced with Swann in the last 3 overs to lunch. Incredible leadership.

[dee-luded 2,959]

DEELUDED

it did start about then,ponting as good as he was didn't want to play in a losing team, when gilly retired he wouldn't accept a wicketkeeper. he plumped for another batsmen and was happy with backstop that could make a few runs. instead of rebuilding

then hayden was kept on for 10 tests to many and a young player couldn't get those early experiences under his belt.

and when the end was close, instead of spending the last 3 years at no 6 and ushering in yet another cadet, oh no ricky wants to stay at 3 and ruin the chances of the younger player fitting in. it was debated by ex players in the press that he was ruining the end of a great career,by the time he retired there was no plan in place, he did state at one stage that if dropped I will play ipl and get a million dollars

it was a threat that ca panicked about and did what the players wanted

TD, I think they might try a soccer thing in the shield and make it compulsory to have 2 players under a certain age

read my other post about katich re clarke

& IMO this "young buy it off the shelf culture" ,,,, 'if it breaks just buy another'... is hurting us all around our world, & our 'quality things' are going out the garbage shoot with the disposables...

... this same attitude sounds like its in sport today as well, from the things you've said.... 20/20 isn't eyesight anymore.

if true, I'm saddened to hear that even Punter has this I'm greater than the team attitude... we to @ the MFC have had this in recent years, where our leading players threw hissy fits & wanted a pension contract of a year, or 2..... without really being true leaders.... it seems the same as captain Clark... I don't think he's a Captains A'hole.

IMO the team is performing less than its ability, even if its not the most talented we've ever sent... & I reckon its a lot because we have a number of differing 'cultural-values attitudes', amongst the players... & it looks to me that this has caused some conflicts over the last few years, & @ the centre of very nearly all of them,,, has been Clarke as captain.... I think he's poison, 'as a leader'.

I like your Idea of bringing in some maturity, & I would try to replace Clark as captain. Keep him as the pivotal batsmen. make him bat at 4 & try play Hughes, Agar & Smith in the middle order.

I still think Watson is a test player, but since Ponting dropped the captaincy, I think Watsons form has gone off... I think this is more about Clark, & the unhappy Test Team environment, than Watson himself.

'pretty boys should not be made captain'...

Edited July 24, 2013 by dee-luded

[MadAsHell 4,209]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/cricket/pattinson-ruled-out-of-ashes/story-fni2fnmo-1226683490032

He can't take a trick can poor old Patto. Out till our summer!

Wonder if they'll bring Pat Cummins into the squad? Personally I hope they resist that and let him have his Australia A tour, they still have Jackson Bird, Mitchell Starc and James Faulkner in the squad anyway.

My only change to the XI for the 3rd test at this stage would be Bird in for Pattinson, however that would also depend on the fitness of Agar (possible inclusion of Lyon) and form of Warner in his next tour match. If we go down 3-0 that's when they should look at options such as Wade as a specialist batsman and Faulkner in for Watson with Watto test career coming to an end.

[Cards13 9,117]

Brutal, brutal start to the 10 test back to back series. Patto gone for this tour, get fit and prepare the fastest, greenest, bounciest pitches we can over here.

Gee wizz you have to wonder how Watto will handle all the pressure, Border has come out now to say a few things too.

[Macca 16,611]

If Watson goes then 4 or 5 should go before him. Faulkner can't bat in the top 6 and Watson will probably stay because of his bowling. I agree that Watson should go but right now, he is better value (all round) than Rogers, Hughes, Khawaja, Smith, Cowan and Warner (none of whom bowl ... Smith bowls occasionally but is a real part timer)

With Patto out we will need Watson's bowling even more so. Watson should drop down to no.6 for now as he's not an opener and we could replace him with Henriques or Mitch Marsh (but probably not whilst we're in England)

How the other batsmen escape the same scrutiny is astonishing. It's a team game and it's never one persons fault when a team is playing as diabolically bad as our team. I'm not excusing Watson as he should be dropped but so should all the batsmen (bar Clarke)

We've got far bigger fish to fry. Rogers adds nothing and is too old, Cowan the same, Hughes is back to his non productive ways, Warner should have been sent home, Smith isn't up to it and Khawaja can't go on with it.

If Watson goes, so should the lot of them. Sacking Watson on his own won't solve anything and we'll be down to 4 bowlers (without a strike bowler - Patto) Faulkner is a no.7 or no.8. He is not a test standard batsman.

[jazza 1,323]

don't know much about Faulkner, thanks for the update macca.ive never seen him play

sportsline this morning gave the selection process for the last 5 years a big pasting

Geoff Lawson was scathing about the past 4 years and the present . he said Watson was terrible in play and body language

im starting to agree with cards, maybe while were buggered we can prepare super fast strips and find out who can play and who wants to play,at least against this attack we can use our pace to have a go. also gives their bats less chance of steady all day at the crease total building,

its always been said that we found our best players after the windies kicked the Christ out of us on fast wickets with speed bowlers

[Biffen 12,823]

Article in the Age finally putting the blame for our demise on the head of CA.

BBL,IPL,the weakening of Club and state cricket and the chasing of quick bucks.

Ten years with Sutherland have overseen this .

I once loved cricket with a passion.

Not now-I would rather play park cricket or watch some mates play.

They wrecked it.

Fkn Sports administrators.

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Brutal, brutal start to the 10 test back to back series. Patto gone for this tour, get fit and prepare the fastest, greenest, bounciest pitches we can over here.

Gee wizz you have to wonder how Watto will handle all the pressure, Border has come out now to say a few things too.

If Watson goes then 4 or 5 should go before him. Faulkner can't bat in the top 6 and Watson will probably stay because of his bowling. I agree that Watson should go but right now, he is better value (all round) than Rogers, Hughes, Khawaja, Smith, Cowan and Warner (none of whom bowl ... Smith bowls occasionally but is a real part timer)

With Patto out we will need Watson's bowling even more so. Watson should drop down to no.6 for now as he's not an opener and we could replace him with Henriques or Mitch Marsh (but probably not whilst we're in England)

How the other batsmen escape the same scrutiny is astonishing. It's a team game and it's never one persons fault when a team is playing as diabolically bad as our team. I'm not excusing Watson as he should be dropped but so should all the batsmen (bar Clarke)

We've got far bigger fish to fry. Rogers adds nothing and is too old, Cowan the same, Hughes is back to his non productive ways, Warner should have been sent home, Smith isn't up to it and Khawaja can't go on with it.

If Watson goes, so should the lot of them. Sacking Watson on his own won't solve anything and we'll be down to 4 bowlers (without a strike bowler - Patto) Faulkner is a no.7 or no.8. He is not a test standard batsman.

don't know much about Faulkner, thanks for the update macca.ive never seen him play

sportsline this morning gave the selection process for the last 5 years a big pasting

Geoff Lawson was scathing about the past 4 years and the present . he said Watson was terrible in play and body language

im starting to agree with cards, maybe while were buggered we can prepare super fast strips and find out who can play and who wants to play,at least against this attack we can use our pace to have a go. also gives their bats less chance of steady all day at the crease total building,

its always been said that we found our best players after the windies kicked the Christ out of us on fast wickets with speed bowlers

Border's spot on and it's all our batsmen that must shoulder the blame. Our bolwing has been reasonable given the little amount of rest time our batters have given them and the fact they've been bowling to the likes of Cook, Trott, Pietersen, Bell and Prior all of whom are top batsmen and Root looks like he's getting ready to establish himself also.

I hear what you're saying Macca about others should go before Watson, but the reason why Watson shoulders (and rightly so in my book) so much more blame is because he's had 43 test caps now and has only scored 2 centuries. Rogers is only 3 tests into his career and has received two very stiff LBW decisions and has already scored more 50's this year then Watson, Khawaja's never had a good run, Cowan's papers have now been stamped and rightly so and Warner who's played less then half the test matches Watson has already has more centuries. Hughes however I agree should be under just as much pressure as Watson. It's also worth remembering that Watson himself has stated that he doesn't like batting down the order and wants to open, his stats also back up that he scores more runs at the top.

Faulkner I agree probably isn't ready as far as batting is concerned (average 29 in FC cricket) however with Watson not scoring many runs as is, one could argue that by playing Faulkner we're then not loosing anything in the batting as long as Faulkner bats to his average and then on the flip side we gain a better bowler who can bowl more overs then Watson. Faulkner's also only 23 so has improvement left in him and has a betetr bowling record then Henriques & Marsh and a better batting reord then Marsh and only slighhtly inferior to Henriques It would also mean that an experiment of Hughes in the middle order could be finished and he could move back to open where he made all his runs in the Shield last summer. But then again as I mentioned in an earlier post of mine, if we go on to loose 5-0 which is a real possability, I'd be looking at telling all of Watson, Warner and Hughes that they're now specialist ODI & T20 players and look to bring Katich back and look at the likes of Cosgrove and Bailey.

We certainly need a restructure of our domestic scene. As I've said, I can see why CA want the BBL during the school holidays, but it may be more practicle if they moved it to February or had it in October as soon as the footy season finished.

Edit: Spelling

Edited July 23, 2013 by Tall Defence