Collingwood have a plethora of dangerous small forwards, so Whelan comes in if fit.

Holland must come in and play on his [censored] Rocca. I want him down in defence for 2 reasons, first he has a good record on Rocca and secondly without Neitz or Robertson our forward line would be too predictable with big Dutchy, although he may find his way down there at some point in the game.

Also, with Warnock picking up Cloke I'd rejig the forward line and give Garland a crack. We can see if he's learnt anything from playing on Buddy and Riewoldt in consecutive weeks. With Holland on Rocca there's the opportunity to be a little unpredictable up forward.

Morton has too much class to be wearing stripes.

Obviously Davey if fit.

In: Holland, Davey, Morton, Whelan

Out: Robertson, Dunn, Buckley, Yze

Apologies to Valenti who I want to see back in sooner rather than later.

Collingwood have a plethora of dangerous small forwards, so Whelan comes in if fit.

Holland must come in and play on his [censored] Rocca. I want him down in defence for 2 reasons, first he has a good record on Rocca and secondly without Neitz or Robertson our forward line would be too predictable with big Dutchy, although he may find his way down there at some point in the game.

Also, with Warnock picking up Cloke I'd rejig the forward line and give Garland a crack. We can see if he's learnt anything from playing on Buddy and Riewoldt in consecutive weeks. With Holland on Rocca there's the opportunity to be a little unpredictable up forward.

Morton has too much class to be wearing stripes.

Obviously Davey if fit.

In: Holland, Davey, Morton, Whelan

Out: Robertson, Dunn, Buckley, Yze

Apologies to Valenti who I want to see back in sooner rather than later.

Rivers will be fit as well, so added on to your ins and outs:

In: Rivers

Out: Frawley

Collingwood have a plethora of dangerous small forwards, so Whelan comes in if fit.

Holland must come in and play on his [censored] Rocca. I want him down in defence for 2 reasons, first he has a good record on Rocca and secondly without Neitz or Robertson our forward line would be too predictable with big Dutchy, although he may find his way down there at some point in the game.

Also, with Warnock picking up Cloke I'd rejig the forward line and give Garland a crack. We can see if he's learnt anything from playing on Buddy and Riewoldt in consecutive weeks. With Holland on Rocca there's the opportunity to be a little unpredictable up forward.

Morton has too much class to be wearing stripes.

Obviously Davey if fit.

In: Holland, Davey, Morton, Whelan

Out: Robertson, Dunn, Buckley, Yze

Apologies to Valenti who I want to see back in sooner rather than later.

Buckley should and will be retained.

CJ must come in, he has earnt it at Sandy and we were woeful.

Ins: CJ, Davey, Morton, Rivers, Whelan

Outs: Robbo, Dunn, Yze, Frawley, Bell

5 is the limit when it comes to changes.

Frawley must come out. I've tried to like him, but he's turning into a drafting disaster.

IN - Davey, Morton, Whelan, (Sir Jared) Rivers, Holland

OUT - Robbo, Dunn, Bell, Frawley, Buckley

Yze says as he showed a bit up foward, and its not as if we're blessed with too many options in attack at the moment. If he does stuff all this week, by all means drop him.

I'm going for experience this week to stem the bleeding. We can't have a 100 point loss on such a marquee day. Hasn't our brand gone to [censored] far enough already.

And lets trial Bruce in a forward pocket. The guy is a solid mark, and was kicking 3 goals a week when down there in the early days.

Cj may well come in, but I've drawn a line through him permanently. And as much as I'd love to drop Bell as I don't think he's good enough at AFL level I suspect he'll be saved my the number of Collingwood mid size forwards.

Frawley must come out. I've tried to like him, but he's turning into a drafting disaster.

Yze says as he showed a bit up foward, and its not as if we're blessed with too many options in attack at the moment. If he does stuff all this week, by all means drop him.

I'm going for experience this week to stem the bleeding. We can't have a 100 point loss on such a marquee day. Hasn't our brand gone to [censored] far enough already.

Why do people naturally assume that experience will stem the bleeding? All the experience of our senior players have done jack all.

I would prefer the youth's enthusiasm and spark any day.

Writing off Frawley is as stupid as backing Pickett, Powell, Ferguson, Doggie, Yze, Bizzell.

Holland must come in and play on his [censored] Rocca. I want him down in defence for 2 reasons, first he has a good record on Rocca and secondly without Neitz or Robertson our forward line would be too predictable with big Dutchy, although he may find his way down there at some point in the game.

From what I can gather, you see a fair bit of Sandringham. Is it worth bringing Stefan Martin in to play on Rocca at this point?

From what I can gather, you see a fair bit of Sandringham. Is it worth bringing Stefan Martin in to play on Rocca at this point?

Unfortunately I only see Sandy 3-4 times a year. There are better informed posters than me on Martin. He's very competitive, takes a nice mark, seems agile for his size, and is improving his disposal even though he looks ungainly. He's raw, but definitely an interesting prospect.

We've now got a very young side and I think we need some of Dutchy's experience and competitiveness against the Pies. And he's done well on Rocca previously. He has well known limitations but I'll always remember him fondly as at least he had a red hot crack. I can't say that about too many.

After last weeks display it's time to add some hardness & some experience. Especially for this game.

Whelan Garland Warnock

Green Rivers Wheatley

Bruce McLean Morton

Davey Miller Bate

Sylvia Carroll Wonaeamerri

Jamar McDonald Jones

White Valenti Moloney Bartram

In:Whelan Carroll Morton Rivers Davey Valenti Jamar

Out: Bell Frawley Johnson Robertson Dunn Yze Buckley

Em:Maric Holland Buckley

Why do people naturally assume that experience will stem the bleeding? All the experience of our senior players have done jack all.

I would prefer the youth's enthusiasm and spark any day.

Writing off Frawley is as stupid as backing Pickett, Powell, Ferguson, Doggie, Yze, Bizzell.

I never backed Ferguson

Frawley has been a chronic disapointment so far. Always gets spanked in one-on-ones.

Frawley has been a chronic disapointment so far. Always gets spanked in one-on-ones.

Shocking that a second year key defender who would still be knocked over by a stiff breeze would be beaten in one-on-ones.

Holland must come in and play on his [censored] Rocca. I want him down in defence for 2 reasons, first he has a good record on Rocca and secondly without Neitz or Robertson our forward line would be too predictable with big Dutchy, although he may find his way down there at some point in the game.

Holland would give us some structure up forward though, giving us something to kick to, and the ability to at least create a contest and thus bring the ball to ground the majority of times. I'm not sure we'll have that with the other guys that have been bandied about.

Shame we don't have two of him for this week

I don't think Frawley should go just yet. What's he played, 10 games or so? He showed some promise vs Carlton earlier this year, and he should be learning each week.

B: WHELAN, WARNOCK, GARLAND

HB: C.JOHNSON, RIVERS, WHEATLEY

C: DAVEY, MCLEAN, BRUCE

HF: BATE, MILLER, GREEN

F: YZE, HOLLAND, WONAEAMIRRI

FOLL: JAMAR, JONES, MCDONALD

IC: MORTON, VALENTI, SYLVIA, WHITE

EMERG: BUCKLEY, P.JOHNSON, MOLONEY

Miller, Sylvia and Bruce are all on their last chance. They can blame their poor performances on their young list all they like but it's their leadership group that is too blame they have been disgraceful all year.

IN: WHELAN, C.JOHNSON, RIVERS, DAVEY, HOLLAND, JAMAR, MORTON, VALENTI

OUT: ROBERTSON, BUCKLEY, P.JOHNSON, MOLONEY, BARTRAM, BELL, FRAWLEY, DUNN

Don't mind that team. Replace CJ with Buckley and Jamar with PJ. I think time is up for Yze.

Miller, Sylvia and Bruce are all on their last chance. They can blame their poor performances on their young list all they like but it's their leadership group that is too blame they have been disgraceful all year.

Just noticed this

Sylvia and leadership / leadership group? Were you thinking of someone else?

Also, I cant even think of one game this year where Miller or Sylvia have been "disgraceful". Bruce has had some shockers to be sure, but to say he's been disgraceful "all year" is a bit over-the-top.

Outs: Robbo, Frawley, Yze, Dunn, Bell,

Ins: Davey, Rivers, Holland, Morton, Whelan

I like Frawley but I dont think he has a real matchup (would rather see Holland on Rocca, Warnock on Cloke), and it wouldnt hurt him to go back to Sandy for a week or two, find some form and then come back. Theres a fair chance not all of Davey, Rivers and Whelan will be fit: if Davey doesnt come up I'd look at giving CJ a chance, Bell might have to stay in if Whelan's not ready, likewise Frawley if Rivers doesnt come up.

Could we see Jamar come into the side?

With both White and Paul Johnson getting spanked in the hitouts (total and effectiveness) and having little influence on the stoppages against St Kilda, and DB naming PJ as one to be given an opportunity as KP forward in the coming weeks- with the long-term loss of Robbo and retirement of Neita... Oddly, i think Jamar is a must to play.

I'm quite vocal about my dissatisfaction with Jamar as a player (i'll admit, yes, i'm a Jamar-basher), but i think he will be required to play against the Pies and, if selected, will probably contest the majority of the ruckwork. I think the 3 ruckmen will be played, with PJ spending the majority of the game at FF/FP.

FWIW, I hope the INs and OUTS this week are:

OUTs: Robertson (inj), Yze, Bartram, Dunn, Bell, Frawley (all omitted).

Yze did nothing against the Saints (i'm not counting junk-time goals) and i think Sylvia can fill the role left vacant by Robbo. IMO Dunn did not do enough to keep his spot + looked lost when played forward. Bartram and Bell desperately need to find some form in the VFL, and if Rivers is fit, ditto Frawley.

INs: Davey (if fit), Rivers (if fit), Whelan (if fit), C.Johnson, Jamar, Morton.

As has been said before, its unlikely all 3 of Whelan/Rivers/Davey will pull up, so chances are one or more of Bell, Frawley, Yze, Bartram, or Dunn could be a late inclusion. Injury-permitting, i'd say Bell/Bartram for Whelan, Frawley for Rivers, Yze/Dunn for Davey, should late changes occur.

B: Whelan Warnock Garland

HB: Wheatley Rivers Green

C: Moloney Jones Davey

HF: Morton Miller Bate

F:Wonaeamirri P.Johnson Sylvia

FOLL: White McLean Jones

Inter: Bruce, Jamar, C.Johnson, Buckley

EMG: Bell, Frawley, Yze.

I don't mind that team Doggo and most of your reasoning. I'd probably keep Dunn at the expense of CJ and only leave out Frawley if Rivers proves his fitness. I'm a big fan of both Bartram and Bell but I think you're right in saying they need a boost in confidence and a couple of weeks at Sandy might be the way to go. Not sure I'd go with the three rucks, as I'm not convinced by PJ forward and would prefer Holland for a one off assignment. This is a big week, the club needs a win.

If it wasn't the QB clash and a big week for the club, historically speaking, I reckon Jeff White's place would have come under very close scrutiny. I think he needs a big one this week.

Bell has had 6 years hasnt he?

Jeff White dissipates team fervour to win IMO and is more a negative than a positive now. Jamar has no smarts but is honest.

Id keep Yze in for this week, as it isnt fair to have one week in and it is a stage he can command.

Chris Johnson now justs makes me ill to think how well I figured he would go.

If I had a whole nother lifetime I could spend it waiting for CJ and Bell to come good.

Vibes, Franky,

I am not sure what the real impetus to save White and Yze based on their performances to date. After such an insipid display against St Kilda and other games during the year, White must be cashing in his tickets very quickly. I cant see us giving him another year. We need to get a capable replacement in the off season.

At present Collingwood are one of the hardest pressuring and tackling sides in the AFL. I think you are digging up fond memories believing that QB will be a stage Yze will command. As he has shown with greater regularity in recent years, when the pressure is on, Yze is melted butter. His cheap stats on Sunday did little to alter that view. I'd rather play CJ than Yze in the faint hope that........very faint hope that he will give us something for the future.

Vibes, Franky,

I am not sure what the real impetus to save White and Yze based on their performances to date. After such an insipid display against St Kilda and other games during the year, White must be cashing in his tickets very quickly. I cant see us giving him another year. We need to get a capable replacement in the off season.

At present Collingwood are one of the hardest pressuring and tackling sides in the AFL. I think you are digging up fond memories believing that QB will be a stage Yze will command. As he has shown with greater regularity in recent years, when the pressure is on, Yze is melted butter. His cheap stats on Sunday did little to alter that view. I'd rather play CJ than Yze in the faint hope that........very faint hope that he will give us something for the future.

Amen Rhino, amen.

Give a kid the opportunity to experience the great atmosphere of the day and stop rewarding senior players who are not pulling their weight just because of their past glories. That goes for Bruce too. His disposal and decision making are now a liability. The minute our kids start carrying our senior players, you just know something is wrong.

I rather see Jamar drop 10 sitters, than Yze toe-poking his way through yet another game.

I rather see Jamar drop 10 sitters, than Yze toe-poking his way through yet another game.

Jamar must be the luckiest footballer in history. Either that or he has photos.

Even if he is contracted for next year I'd pay him out and delist him.

I rather see Jamar drop 10 sitters, than Yze toe-poking his way through yet another game.

It would take Jamar 5 rounds to run up those stats.

Frankly the best thing about White's game at the moment is Jamar! :angry:

Your example is a true rock and a hard place choice.

I think Hannibal is close on Jamar. The only upside (if indeed it is one) is that we could not be paying Jamar too much....could we??

BTW, I am not in the support team of CJ. I just think Yze is finished and has been for some years and its got more obvious over that time.

Jamar must be the luckiest footballer in history. Either that or he has photos.

The photos would be either blurred or he would need a one touch digital camera to compliment his style

I don't mind that team Doggo and most of your reasoning. I'd probably keep Dunn at the expense of CJ and only leave out Frawley if Rivers proves his fitness. I'm a big fan of both Bartram and Bell but I think you're right in saying they need a boost in confidence and a couple of weeks at Sandy might be the way to go. Not sure I'd go with the three rucks, as I'm not convinced by PJ forward and would prefer Holland for a one off assignment. This is a big week, the club needs a win.

If it wasn't the QB clash and a big week for the club, historically speaking, I reckon Jeff White's place would have come under very close scrutiny. I think he needs a big one this week.

I think Bartram is being too heavily criticised, plus I think he's the perfect player for Heath Shaw: other teams have shown that Shaw's influence on the game is massively reduced when you tag him, so I think Bartram should stay.

You make a good point about Jeff White. The main problem is neither Jamar nor PJ have shown consistently that they can take on full ruck responsibilities: White has, even if his best form is behind him. An average game from White still beats a good game from Jamar.